Autonomous Vehicles

Published on May 22nd, 2016 | by Chris Boylan

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Top 12 Questions On Tesla Model 3 Answered

May 22nd, 2016 by  

With around 373,000 advance reservations (so far), the Tesla Model 3 is officially the most anticipated car in history. And though many details were revealed at the Model 3 unveiling event this past March, many questions were left unanswered. Here are the top questions we’ve heard from readers, friends, and family about the Tesla Model 3, along with answers. Most of these are verified via communications with Tesla or tweets from the man himself (Elon Musk), but some are best guesses based on current information. As more information comes to light, we’ll be sure to keep this FAQ page updated.

How Much Will the Model 3 Really Cost?

Tesla says that the Model 3 will start at $35,000 before any state, local, or federal incentives. We expect the company to make good on this promise. However, Tesla tends to offer such compelling upgrades and options that it’s likely that the average selling price of the Model 3 will be significantly higher. Upgraded paint and interior, Autopilot, dual motors, extended battery for longer range between charges, air filters that can withstand a military-grade biochemical attack: all of this adds up. A fully loaded Model 3 equipped with all the options could top out at over $70,000 (unofficial speculation based on Model S and Model X options). Considering that Tesla’s Model X SUV ranges from $83,000 to $152,000 (a $69,000 range bottom to top), it’s not hard to imagine that you could load up a Model 3 for twice the base price. And a sweet Model 3 that would be. That said, we don’t expect to have any real pricing details on Model 3 options until much closer to production when the online design studio is launched for reservation holders.

model3_quarter_mod2

Tesla Model 3 on unveiling night. Photo by Kyle Field for CleanTechnica and EV Obsession.

What Options Will Be Available on the Model 3?

The Tesla Model S and X should be a good guide to the type of options that will be offered on the Model 3. The company recently normalized their options so that both the Model S and Model X have the exact same option list. We have already heard from Tesla and/or Elon himself that the Model 3 will have an extended-range battery pack, dual-motor drive, and “Ludicrous Speed” mode (which requires the “Performance” package) available as options. Autopilot, either in its current form or an advanced version, will be offered as an option and Supercharger access is likely to be a paid option as well. An upgraded audio system and interior and exterior lighting packages are likely. Also, the HEPA air filtration system with Bioweapon Defense mode is extremely likely to show up on the Model 3 as an option. As air quality worsens in many areas of the world (particularly China), advanced air filtration systems should prove to be more and more popular. It’s likely that Tesla will bundle options together as they do on the Model S and Model X.

Grey model 3

At the Model 3 reveal event on March 31, 2016, a matte grey Model 3 was a crowd favorite. Photo by Tesla Motors.

Paint and interior choices are likely to be similar to the Model S and X, though a matte grey Model 3 at the reveal event proved very popular, so we may see some additional or different paint options on the Model 3. As for what brand new features we may see on the Model 3, the one that many speculate about is a HUD (heads-up display). A HUD displays essential information to the driver without requiring her or him to lower her/his eyes from the road. This is typically done by projecting this information onto the windshield outside the main field of view. Volvo, BMW, and other car makers are experimenting with this technology in automobiles, and so far it looks promising. With the Model 3 prototype’s sparse interior and lack of a conventional instrument cluster, a HUD would be a welcome addition, supplementing the information in the car’s center-mounted touchscreen panel. With Tesla’s dedication to safety, we wouldn’t be surprised if a HUD comes as a standard feature in the Model 3.

If you want to see what your Model 3 might look like with multiple different paint and wheel options, check out this fan-built and completely unofficial Model 3 configurator. We wonder if the interior choice means that the Model 3 will make the Kessel run in under 12 parsecs.

How Many Pre-Orders Are There for the Model 3?

On May 15, Tesla revealed that there are currently 373,000 paid reservations for the Model 3. This number is a net total after about 8,000 buyer cancellations and 4,200 orders that Tesla cancelled due to suspected speculation (there is currently a 2 car per person pre-order limit). Musk has stated that a full 93% of Model 3 pre-orders are from new buyers who do not currently own a Tesla. Also, only about 5% of total orders are for the maximum of two cars, suggesting that most are ordering these cars for themselves or a family member, not for potential resale. It’s important to keep in mind that this reservation count comes with no advertising of the car and very little direct promotion. As the car gets closer to production, and more of its features come to light, we expect the reservation count to continue to grow.

When Will I Get My Model 3?

As mentioned, Tesla currently has around 373,000 pre-orders for the Model 3. In all of 2015, Tesla manufactured about 50,000 cars. Do the math. Oh, don’t look so sad! It probably won’t take Tesla 8 years to fulfill all those Model 3 orders. Tesla is growing its production line out quickly. Just 3½ years ago (2012), Tesla manufactured and sold a grand total of 3,100 cars in the entire year. So, to be making 15 times as many cars per year in just 3 years is a good start. On the most recent earnings call, Mr. Musk set an aggressive goal to reach a manufacturing run rate of 500,000 cars a year by 2018. And last week, the company announced a major stock offering to fund that lofty goal. The offering could bring up to $1.7 billion in cash into company coffers. This cash will help fund the property leases, equipment purchases, raw materials, and human capital required to beef up Tesla’s production capabilities in short order.

Musk has stated that the first Model 3s will roll off the line in 2017. He even went out on a limb to say that the company could make as many as 100,000–200,000 Model 3s in 2017, but I believe this goal is a bit too aggressive considering the company’s past history of model roll-outs. Let’s be a bit more realistic and say that the company can deliver 10,000 Model 3s in 2017 and really ramp up production in early to mid 2018. If it can ramp up production quickly, the company could deliver as many as 250,000 Model 3s in 2018. And it could be poised to deliver 350,000 or more Model 3s in 2019. There are too many unknowns at this point to say whether these goals are attainable, but they are in keeping with the company’s stated plans. But exactly when you get your car depends on more than just Tesla’s production capacity.

Tesla Model 3 x 2

Tesla’s Model 3 prototypes from March, 2016. Photo by Tesla Motors.

Tesla has already stated that employees of both Tesla and SpaceX will get order priority on the Model 3. Also, the company is giving priority to current Tesla owners (of a Model X, Model S, or Roadster) before the general public. There are a couple of reasons that this makes sense. First, Tesla and SpaceX employees have put in significant effort in getting the company to where it is today (SpaceX is another Elon Musk venture, which shares many technological developments with its sister company Tesla). Similarly, without buyers of the Roadster, Model S, and Model X, Tesla would not exist. So, the first reason for the order priority is as a reward for those who have helped the company succeed. The other reason is that new cars (particularly new Teslas) tend to have a few glitches early on in their production cycles. With over-the-air software updates, many of these issues can be corrected with a simple software update right in the owner’s garage. But some of the early issues are likely to be hardware-related. And who do you think would be more forgiving of these early glitches? Employees and early supporters of the company? Or the general public? By offering order priority to these “friendly” buyers, the company helps to minimize any potential bad press about the early production samples.

Beyond that, Musk and Tesla have said that the company will fulfill highly optioned orders first, and will expedite those orders based on geography. The West Coast of the US gets first dibs. The reason to fulfill highly optioned orders first is that this maximizes revenue (and profit) while they are constrained by production, which can help the company to stay afloat financially and can also help to speed up production, sales, service, and supercharging growth. And the reason to fulfill West Coast orders first is that these are closest to the factory and headquarters, which allows the company to deliver these cars quicker, and to correct any early problems with the cars in a more timely fashion.

Mod3_dark_silver

Tesla Model 3 and SpaceX truck on the test track on unveiling night — Tesla SpaceX have large facilities on the same site in Hawthorne, California. Photos by Kyle Field for CleanTechnica and EV Obsession.

So the answer to “When Will I Get My Model 3?” depends on a few factors: do you work for Tesla Motors or SpaceX? Are you already a Tesla customer? Are you willing to pony up for a top-of-the-line or highly optioned model? Where do you live? Tesla employees and owners who live near Fremont, CA, and who order a fully loaded performance model may get their cars in 2017 or early 2018. Musk himself even said that Tesla would try to fulfill orders from those waiting in lines at stores on March 31 by the end of 2017. But sometimes Mr. Musk is a bit too optimistic when it comes to deliveries. If you live far from California, don’t work for Tesla, don’t own a Tesla already, and you’re hoping to bring home a less-than-fully-featured Model 3 for closer to the $35,000 base price, you may be waiting until late 2018 or 2019 for yours. It all depends on exactly when Tesla manages to ramp up production of the Model 3 and what the actual configuration mix looks like.

The best way to ensure that you get your Model 3 early (other than moving to California and taking a job with Tesla or SpaceX) is to put down a deposit now (if you haven’t already) and confirm your order as soon as you are invited to do so. Your place in the delivery queue is only locked in when you confirm your order (it is not based on when you place your deposit), so you can actually jump the queue a bit if you confirm your order as soon as you get invited to do so and/or you order a highly optioned Model 3.

Tesla Model 3 favorite

Tesla Model 3 on the test track on unveiling night. Photo by Kyle Field for CleanTechnica and EV Obsession.

Will I Still Be Eligible for the $7,500 Federal Tax Credit?

US buyers of EVs (electric vehicles) qualify for a federal tax credit of up to $7,500. This incentive is currently limited to a certain number of cars for each manufacturer. As soon as a particular carmaker delivers 200,000 EVs in the United States, the clock starts ticking on the phase-out period for the tax credit. All EVs sold by that company for the next 3–6 months qualify for 100% of the credit (which means the car must be delivered in that time period). Then the credit drops to $3,750 (50%) for 6 months and to $1,750 (25%) for the following 6 months. Depending on how quickly Tesla ramps up production of the Model 3, it could hit that 200,000 milestone as early as Q4 2017 or Q1 2018. If it hits the milestone on January 1, 2018, then all Teslas delivered in the first half of 2018 would be eligible for the full credit. For the second half of 2018, buyers would be eligible for a 50% credit ($3,750), and for the first half of 2019, buyers would get the 25% credit. For more details on how the tax credit works, see our article, “Tesla Model 3, The Federal EV Tax Credit, & You (FAQ).”

model3_side

Tesla Model 3s on stage on reveal night. Photos by Kyle Field for CleanTechnica and EV Obsession.

Will the Tesla Model 3 Have Dual-Motor All-Wheel Drive?

Just as on the Model S, the base Model 3 will have rear-wheel drive with one electric motor driving the rear wheels. But as with the S, there will be a dual-motor option on the Model 3. This improves performance, handling, and efficiency. The upgrade cost for switching to dual motors on the Model S is $5,000. The upcharge for dual motors on the Model 3 is likely to be somewhat lower, as the motors themselves are likely to be smaller than those in the Model S and Model X. The Model 3 prototypes shown at the launch event in March were dual-motor-drive cars.

mod3_silver_clear

Tesla Model 3 on the test track on unveiling night. Photos by Kyle Field for CleanTechnica and EV Obsession.

How Fast Will the Model 3 Be? Will It Leave My Friend’s BMW in the Dust?

OK, technically, that’s two questions. So far, all we know for sure is that the base Model 3 will go from 0 to 60 MPH in “under 6 seconds.” This is pretty quick for a compact sports sedan at this price point. For about the same price, a base model BMW 3 series (2016 model year 320i) does 0-60 in about 7.2 seconds, though you can shave that down to under 5 seconds and stay in the BMW 3 series if you’re willing to spend twice as much. When you add a larger battery and dual motors to a Tesla Model 3, the acceleration numbers should get significantly better. Reports from the Model 3 unveiling event suggest that those dual-motor prototype Model 3s reached 60 MPH in under 5 seconds. But we’re expecting even better performance than that on the highest-performance version of the Model 3 (perhaps under 4 seconds?). So, yeah, your BMW-owning friend may have acceleration envy of your Model 3.

As for “fast,” we don’t know yet what the Model 3’s top speed will be. On a Model S, that varies from 140 MPH for the base 70 kWh model to 155 MPH for the top-of-the-line P90D. We expect that the top speed of the Model 3 will be at least 130 MPH and may go as high as 150 or even 155 on the performance version with the largest battery pack. The BMW 3 series tops out at about 145–155 MPH depending on the model.

model3_front

Tesla Model 3 on stage during reveal night. Photo by Kyle Field for CleanTechnica and EV Obsession.

Will the Model 3 Have “Ludicrous Speed?”

Yes. From the beginning, one of Tesla’s goals has been to make EVs so good that there would be no compromises compared to gas cars. They proved this was possible with the Roadster, and even more so with the Model S. The Model S can seat up to 7 people in comfort (as long as two are fairly small), and yet it makes it from 0 to 60 MPH in a blindingly fast 2.8 seconds when equipped with the performance package and Ludicrous speed. This acceleration beats all but the most expensive (and completely impractical) supercars. This performance is due to the instant torque available from a high-capacity/high-current battery simultaneously driving two independent electric motors. The Model 3 isn’t just an “affordable EV.” It’s also a Tesla. And as a Tesla, it will continue the tradition of high performance, quick acceleration, and exceptional handling. Musk has confirmed via Twitter that the Model 3 will have Ludicrous speed as an option, but we still don’t know just how quick it will be. If the battery pack is powerful enough, the car is light enough, and the drag coefficient low enough (they’re aiming for an incredibly low 0.21 cd), it’s possible that a souped up Model 3 might even be capable of giving its big brothers (the Model S and Model X) a run for their money.

mod3_red_sidelines

Tesla Model 3 on the test track on unveiling night. Photos by Kyle Field for CleanTechnica and EV Obsession.

 

Will I Get Access to Superchargers for Long-Distance Travel?

Yes, but maybe not for free in the base model. One of the things that currently sets Tesla apart from the competition is the high-speed charging network that the company is building out all over the world. With the Supercharger network, owners of Tesla’s Model S and Model X can travel long distance for free for life. The Supercharger stations are built along popular routes to allow travel over long distances without long delays due to charging. While it may take 8 hours or more to fully charge a Tesla at home, you can get around 50% of your range back at a Tesla Supercharger in 20–30 minutes. A full top-up takes around 60 minutes. And while this is longer than it takes to fill up a tank of gas, it’s quick enough that many folks don’t mind taking some time to eat a meal or stretch out a bit while their car gets juiced up for free. It’s also approximately twice as fast as other electric cars on the market can charge.

At the Model 3 reveal, Musk stated that the Model 3 would be Supercharger-capable. In other words, it will have the necessary high-speed DC charging capability on board. But this does not mean that the Model 3 will have free Supercharging for life. Even the entry-level Model S in 2012 to 2014 (the 60 kWh battery version) required a $2,000 to $2,500 up-charge to gain access to the Superchargers. That feature was rolled into the 70 kWh model when it became available. But the Model S sells for a minimum of $71,500, so Tesla can allocate a portion of that toward building out the charging network and the residual costs to keep them operational. It’s more difficult to absorb that cost into a $35,000 car. We believe Supercharger access will be an extra cost option on the Model 3. This allows those who don’t need long-distance-travel capability to save a bit of money while those who will use their Tesla for long-distance travel can invest a bit more, in order to fund expansion and maintenance of the Supercharger network. We also believe it’s likely that Tesla will roll Supercharger access into the higher-capacity battery option on the Model 3, just as they did with the Model S. In other words, if you spend an extra $5,000 to $10,000 to get a larger battery with much greater range, you probably won’t have to pay extra to get Supercharger access.

Tesla Model S Kyle long term review

At a Tesla Supercharger, you can replenish about half your range in 20–30 minutes. Photo by Kyle Field for CleanTechnica and EV Obsession.

Will the Model 3 Drive Itself with Autopilot?

Tesla’s Autopilot capabilities are part of what makes its cars so compelling. With a couple of taps on the stalk of a Model S or Model X, you can take your foot off the accelerator and your hands off the wheel and the car will virtually drive itself (on the highway at least). By the way, don’t zone out completely as the car may tell you to resume control at any point if things get really hairy. Model S and Model X also have a nifty “Summon” feature that allows you to call your car to you, or tell it to park itself in your garage. When the Model 3 actually comes to market, 18 months to two years from now, it’s likely that Tesla’s self-driving features will be even more advanced. At the reveal, Musk said that the Autopilot safety features (collision avoidance, automatic braking, etc.) will come standard. This means the autopilot hardware (sensors and cameras) will be built into every Model 3. But don’t expect a full-fledged Autopilot or autonomous-driving capabilities in the $35,000 base model. Adding Autopilot to a Model S or Model X costs $2,500 at order time or $3,000 after purchase. We expect similar pricing for Autopilot on the Model 3.

Tesla AutoPilot

Tesla AutoPilot takes the stress out of long drives and tedious commutes. Image by Tesla Motors.

What’s the Range? How Far Can I Go Between Charges?

Tesla has promised at least 215 miles (EPA rating) of range with a full charge. This is for the base model, which is likely to have a battery that’s around 55 kWh (a Tesla rep has said that the Model 3 base battery will be smaller than 60 kWh). For those who want more range, Tesla will offer the option for a higher-capacity battery. An additional benefit of the larger battery is that it can charge quicker at Superchargers, particularly when the battery is at a relatively low SOC (state of charge). With a larger battery, you won’t have to stop as often, nor for as long as you would with a smaller battery.

Depending on the car’s size, weight, and aerodynamics, as well as the size of the larger battery pack, it’s possible that an upgraded Model 3 may approach or even exceed 300 miles of range. Of course, before the first Model 3 is delivered, it’s likely that the Model S will already boast over 300 miles of range with a 100 kWh battery pack option. But with the lighter weight and more efficient design, the Model 3 should be able to approach 300 miles of range with a 75 kWh or 80 kWh battery.

mod3_driveway

Tesla Model 3 on the test track on unveiling night. Photos by Kyle Field for CleanTechnica and EV Obsession.

Will I Be Able to Seat More Than 5 People in My Model 3?

Due to the smaller size of the Model 3, it won’t be possible to seat more than 5 people (unless they like riding on the roof or in the frunk). Also, unlike the Model S, the Model 3 is a sedan with a trunk, not a hatchback (or liftback). If you want a Tesla with room for 6 or 7 people, the Model S and Model X are still your only choices. A compact SUV based on the Model 3 platform (Model Y?) is expected after the Model 3 sedan launches. Like the Model X, the Model Y may have falcon-wing doors and will undoubtedly have a rear hatch, but it is also unlikely to seat more than 5 passengers due to size constraints.

Model 3 Confirmation

After your Model 3 reservation is confirmed, log into your “My Tesla” page on the Tesla website to see this confirmation. This page will be updated when you’re invited to configure your car.

How Do I Reserve a Model 3?

Go to Tesla’s website to reserve your Model 3. Reservations require a refundable $1,000 deposit. You can cancel your order and get a full refund any time before you actually confirm your configuration. As Tesla nears production of the Model 3, reservation holders will be invited to confirm their orders based on the date and time the reservation was placed. You can also reserve a Model 3 at any Tesla store. And after that? Well, as Tom Petty says, “The Waiting is the Hardest Part!

Follow the author on Twitter at @MrBoylan or connect with him on Google+


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About the Author

is an EV and alternative fuel enthusiast who has been writing about technology since 2003.



  • Adolfo C. Rios

    This is much better than petrol cars but I’m curious, if we think long terms beyond our personal lifecycle. Can lithium be recycled or will we eventually need to find a new type of energy storage? Despite how abundant it is, every thing runs out. Mars used to have water and an atmosphere. Now it has puddles. Is it possible for governments and business to run under a 100% sustainable policy so that we as a race can live until the sun runs out of light? Anyway, I know batteries can be recycled but not sure if that includes the lithium inside them.

    • Bob_Wallace

      Yes, the lithium is totally recyclable.

      Lithium is not the energy source, it’s just something that carries electrons from one place to another (between anode and cathode) much like copper wire. It just gets used, not used up.

  • Peter Egan

    Saw a video which explained key features of the Model 3 as presented by Elon on 31 March.

    The battery has 8 modules running lengthwise in two groups of 4. Knowing it has 8 modules and will have 20700 size cells, and assuming otherwise similar electrical architecture to the MS and MX, we can say each module will have 96 cells in series.

    If each modules has 4 cells in parallel, the car would have 8x96x4 cells = 3072 cells. If we assume the cells have an average voltage of 3.6V (maybe it will be 3.7V), we can speculate on the kW.hours of the M3 based on what we feel will be the Amp.hour rating of the 20700 cells. 5 A.h cells (43% up on the 3.5 A.h 18650 cells) gives 3072×3.6×5 = 55.296 kW.h – giving the car a usable 50 kW.h.

    If we multiply 55.296 kW.h by 3.6, the car would have 199 MJ. It would not surprise me if South African metricated Elon targeted the car with 200 MJ of battery, 25 MJ in each module – 384 cells of 3.6 V and 5.024 A.h. Each module would weigh 50 to 60 kg which means it could be handled by two workers in a repair shop.

    25 MJ is 6.944 kW.h. Thus the module contents could be repackaged in a metal box and sold as a 7 kW.h home energy storage system – albeit with a different cell chemistry.

  • Zippy

    One big unanswered question that makes or breaks the car for me.. will they be getting rid of that awful floating laptop screen sticking into the middle of the cabin so that it has a dash behind the wheel where it belongs and a snugly embedded screen in the centre console more like the Model S.
    I don’t want a tacky-looking control screen that sticks out into the middle on a stem where I’m liable to accidentally break the damned thing the first time I lean past it to vac the car or move a bag or something.

    • Bob_Wallace

      I’m pretty sure that it was pointed out that the interior seen was not the final version. Interior design was still a work in progress.

      And I seem to recall that an early, pre-production version of the S had a similar “tablet on an arm”.

      • Peter Egan

        Surely they will end up offering several different sizes of screen.

  • Dave Riley

    Chris, Excellent summaries, good writing. Of all the reading I’ve done since the earnings call about the production goals, you are the first to agree with my interpretation that Elon did not say 500,000 cars in 2018. I inferred that what his message intended to convey was the goal of a rate of production of 500,000 by the end of 2018. In other words, 41,667 deliveries in December 2018. This could happen with, for example, only 200,000 total deliveries in 2018. All the pundits who didn’t listen carefully will then be saying that Tesla failed to meet the stated goal, when in fact it is only the December delivery totals which will tell the tale.

    • Bob_Wallace

      ​”Tesla Motors Inc.’s chief executive officer, Elon Musk, is known for making the future come early. Yet somehow he’s always running behind schedule. Some would call this a failure of management, but it might just be a business strategy. Call it the Musk Doctrine.

      It goes something like this: People do paradigm-shifting work only when they’re under tremendous pressure, so the key is to ensure deadlines are always impossible. This could help explain why Musk has never launched a product on time, yet no one seems able to keep up with him. It drives Wall Street nuts.

      Musk, 44, tipped his hand on this winning-through-failure strategy last week when he set the launch date for Tesla’s widely anticipated Model 3 electric car astonishingly early: July 1, 2017. But not *really*, Musk explained.

      “Now, will we actually be able to achieve volume production on July 1 next year? Of course not,” he said on Tesla’s earnings call. “In order for us to be confident of achieving volume production of Model 3 by late 2017, we actually have to set a date of mid-2017 and really hold people’s feet to the fire, internally and externally.””

      http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-05-09/elon-musk-s-tesla-strategy-win-big-by-falling-short


    • Yep. Not 500k cars in 2018, but a run rate that supports that annual production number by the end of 2018. But as Bob pointed out in his reply, Musk does set very aggressive goals, perhaps knowing full well that they are unattainable. Like, you know… landing a rocket on a boat… three times. (:

    • Yes, I took it the wrong way initially. Will try to keep our communications about it correct going forward.

  • Cowpocalypse_Now

    Why are there no pictures/video of the interior? Sounds like it’s still a work in progress but I would at least like to get an idea what this floating landscape display is.

    • Bob_Wallace

      The interior is a work in progress. Apparently we’ll see what the finished version will look like in the second reveal….

    • Motor Trend recently did an extensive photo and video shoot of the Model 3 at the Gigafactory. Tesla specifically asked them not to get too close on the interior, likely because it is subject to change before launch. There were some peeks in the launch event video. And if you scroll to the bottom of this article you’ll see a pretty good shot of what the prototype interior looked like (the reveal video is also linked from this article). https://www.elusivemagazine.com/tesla-unveils-model-3/

  • Eric Lukac-Kuruc

    Nice summary to point newcomers to. Well done.

  • QKodiak

    Let’s see how much the BMW competition costs. The latest 320i stickers at $34,145 with the most popular version, the 328i starting at $39,345. The powerful 340i costs $46,795, the 335i Gran Tourismo starts at $50,195, and the BMW M3 starts at $63,500. The excellent BMW 328i when fully loaded costs

    • Also, these all have one thing in common: a stinky, polluting, expensive to maintain internal combustion engine. No competition as far as I’m concerned.

      • QKodiak

        That vast majority of people couldn’t care less about burning gas, and maintenance or a BMW is free for the first four years. That’s why EVs need good performance, technology, features, looks, etc. to sell. They will never sell well on “green” credence alone. The fact that they have different drivetrains is nearly irrelevant.

        They are both about the same size, have good performance and handling, look fantastic, have lots of features, start around $35K and go up to $80K+ for a fully loaded performance version, they both come from premium brands, and they’ll both be envied by neighbors.

        The Tesla Model III doesn’t compete with ecoboxes, even if they are electric.

        • I get your point – and agree that EVs need to compete feature for feature, dollar for dollar with ICE cars in order to displace them – but I would hazard a guess that the *vast majority* of the 373,000 people who have already put a deposit on a Model 3 actually do care that it’s electric and this is likely one of the main reasons, if not the main reason, they want one. I know it is for me. I have no interest in owning another ICE car, BMW or otherwise. Too much baggage: health, environment and geopolitical.

          There is clearly a pent-up demand for practical (but exciting) EVs that can travel long distance. The main thing holding people back is the cost. The Model 3 minimizes this particular barrier of entry.

          We still have to figure out how apartment-dwellers (with no garage or convenient charging point) can conveniently own an EV, but that’s a problem for another day…

  • john

    I feel as the article says once Model 3 vehicles are in the neighborhood there will be a sudden awareness of the vehicle. This should cause more sales especially from the mid 20 to mid 50 age group, who will appreciate the logic of Electric Vehicles.
    Every manufacturer will have full blown Electric Vehicles in their lineup due to the demand that will be driven by this age group.
    The Model 3 would be my preference, if I was in the age bracket, as of now, I am waiting for the Model 4 or Model Y, which ever it is going to be called, and this will be my next transport item.
    Perhaps Model 2 may be the option to name the vehicle?

  • JeremyK

    Chris, you dedicated a whole section to battery upgrades, but has that been announced for the Model 3? If not, is there even room for a battery that’s 30-40% “larger” in a car that is supposed to be 20% smaller than the MS?

    • newnodm

      10% smaller
      But I haven’t seen where Tesla said they will offer a battery upgrade, as indicated in the article.

      • JeremyK

        Everything I’ve always seen referenced says 20%. Is 10% new info. since the actual M3 was introduced?

        • newnodm

          10% is the guess I have seen based on estimated measurements

    • The specifics of the battery capacity options on the Model 3 haven’t been revealed (and probably won’t be for some time, since they don’t have a final version of the car or the battery packs yet, and are probably still tweaking the chemistry and cell size for improved energy density). But several statements looked at together make it highly likely that there will be more than one battery pack option. First, the investor relations guy (Jeff Evanson) called in to an investor briefing last month and said that the base Model 3 will have a pack “smaller than 60 kWh.” Then this month, Musk himself said on the Q1 earnings call, “Yeah. I mean, we don’t want to get into real specifics on battery pack size, but I think it’s fair to say that the average battery pack size for the 3 will be less than 75 kilowatt hours.”

      For there to be an “average battery pack size,” there have to be at least two battery pack options of different sizes: one above the average, one below the average. So yeah, there has not yet been a Tweet from Elon saying “there will be more than one battery pack option” but it doesn’t take much to read between the lines. You can read the full quote here.

      http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2016/05/13/tesla-motors-incs-model-3-will-likely-be-smaller-t.aspx

      The other hint is that Musk did specifically say that the Model 3 will have Ludicrous Speed. I can’t see how that would be worthwhile on a little 55 kWh battery. On the S and the X, Ludicrous speed requires the largest, highest capacity, highest current battery pack and the Performance option. Could they do a “P” mode and “Ludicrous speed” on a 55 kWh battery? Maybe, but it would be far less impressive than it would be on a larger pack.

      And we also don’t really know how much space they will have for batteries on the Model 3 yet. We don’t even have confirmed figures for the car’s length, width and height. “20% smaller overall” doesn’t necessarily mean that the battery pack will have to be 20% smaller than the pack on the S. The individual battery cells are likely to be larger than 18650 on the Model 3. A larger cell typically means better energy density, even with the same chemistry. A larger cell with improved chemistry could mean that a 75 kWh or even an 80 kWh pack for the Model 3 could be significantly smaller than the 75 kWh existing pack on the S and X.

  • newnodm

    I expect that what Musk is not saying is the key to the fast launch is to have suppliers do as much manufacturing as possible.

    Saying this publicly would disappoint the many fans who became bizarrely attracted to Tesla vertical integration.

  • Jeff Romanowski

    it better not be any where near 50K cause i will demand a refund! This was to be a affordable car for people like me not rich people! Most people who can afford $35k has a max around 45K….so posting 70K numbers will turn people off like me!

    • The Model 3 will be $35K if you want the base model. You could probably keep it under $45K if you keep it reasonable. That would probably include AutoPilot, Supercharger access, the upgrades package with the HEPA filter, etc., upgraded paint, and maybe even an upgraded stereo. A $45K Model 3 will be an awesome car, but it won’t be fully loaded. A $70K fully loaded Model 3 would be consistent with the pricing on many of its ICE competitors, including the BMW 3 series which starts at $33K and tops out around $70K.

      Also, a $70K fully loaded top of the line Model 3 could only happen if the options from the Model S and Model X are *discounted* significantly from what they cost on the S and the X. If you just assume the same cost of all options on the S and X then a fully loaded Model 3 would be over $85,000. But personally I think that would be excessive.

      And yeah, I don’t think Musk and his Tesla buddies are reading CT articles to finalize their pricing. 🙂

      • QKodiak

        Actually, a fully loaded BMW M3 or Mercedes C63 AMG tops the $90K mark.

    • NRG4All

      Musk said at the unveiling that the $35,000 base model will have quite a lot of features. We just don’t know exactly what that means yet, but I expect a car with 215 mil. range but don’t expect the door handles to reach out to you.

      • Or the door to automatically open for you. 😀

      • windbourne

        actually, it is cheaper to continue making those door handles, than to go with regular ones.

        • The Model 3 handles are mechanical. They’re flush (like the S) but you press in one side for the other side to extend enough to pull the door open. Different from the S and X. I think it’s likely these will make it into production.

          • windbourne

            are they mechanical, or are they activating a switch?

          • I can’t answer that one definitively as I left my model 3 in my other pants. They appear to be a mechanical latch but they could be a switch to an electrically actuated latch. Or they could do both. Mechanical latch on base, electrical switch as part of an upgrade package. But that would be Inconsistent with Tesla’s usual approach: Build them all the same and unlock the upgrades in the software when the customer pays for the option. ?

          • SkyHunter
          • Actually, that makes them sound like they may be a mechanical switch actuating an electric latch: “They don’t pop out electronically to greet you, but flip out with light pressure and then trigger an automatic door popper.” It’s the “automatic” part that makes it sound like it may be an electric latch. I’d be OK with pure mechanical though. One of the things that bugs me about the X is that everything requires electricity. Is there even a mechanical override to move the middle seat forward? I don’t think so. On the X, I’d prefer a simple mechanical latch to release the middle row (and middle seats that fold flat… but I digress).

          • SkyHunter

            It is mechanical. Motivated reasoning doesn’t alter empirical reality.

          • Reasoning, yes. Motivated, no.

          • SkyHunter

            You are motivated to defend your idea. The handles are mechanical. That is quite evident from the video.

          • Did you see my original answer? The one that said, “The Model 3 handles are mechanical”? I have no attachment or vested interest in it being one way or the other. It might be nice to have the auto-opening doors from the X as an option, which would require an electrically actuated latch. But that would run counter to the “keeping it simple” philosophy. Have we beaten this topic to death yet? 🙂

  • Rick Stonehouse

    One thing that really annoys me about all the speculators is the assumption that past performance is an indicator on Tesla’s ability to deliver on time and on budget. They just don’t get it. All other models were not meant to be optimized for the production process. They were optimized to make money. The Model 3 is being designed from the ground as a production efficient vehicle with some of the features we expect and some we probably haven’t thought of. Comparing past performance to Elon’s claims is like comparing apples to watermelons. They just aren’t producing the same way.

    • I personally believe that the Model 3 will ramp up faster and in higher volume than the Roadster, Model S and Model X. But a company’s past performance has to be considered when making future predictions. To do differently would be blind faith. I’m a fan of Tesla, but I personally don’t think they will deliver “100,000 to 200,000” Model 3s in 2017, which is what Musk said on the earnings call. Musk bites off more than he can chew with these statements. Eventually, he’ll chew it all… we’ll all get a bite… and it will be delicious… 🙂
      But grains of salt come in handy when projecting Tesla’s future performance.

      • Rick Stonehouse

        I agree with most of your statements Chris. I just can’t shake the feeling that Elon hasn’t shown all his cards. He makes bold statements often – true. He often doesn’t make good on them on time – true…just have a feeling he is not telling us everything in the works. His announcement seems less absurd with the hiring of Audi’s former VP of Production. I suspect there is more to come.
        Everyone bases startup on the way the old boys have always done business…….Elon will do startup different and it will, IMO, revolutionize auto manufacturing in a way we haven’t seen since Henry Ford…..just a gut feeling but that has never steered me wrong in having faith in the future.

      • MorinMoss

        “I personally don’t think they will deliver “100,000 to 200,000″ Model 3s in 2017”

        I agree. Delivering even 100,000 Model 3 in twenty-EIGHTeen would still be impressive.

    • newnodm

      “All other models were not meant to be optimized for the production process.”

      This is a claim made by Tesla that they need to prove. Musk said in 2014 that Tesla would build 100K vehicles in 2015. How did that work out? How did the fake Model X launch last year work out?

      Tesla INTENDS to make the car easy to manufacturer, and do a fast ramp. Since they have zero experience doing that, why do you assume they will be successful?

      • Rick Stonehouse

        Peter Hochholdinger has LOTS of experience doing that.

      • MorinMoss

        “Musk said in 2014 that Tesla would build 100K vehicles in 2015”

        except that’s not what he said but you can be forgiven for misunderstanding as Elon has a bad habit of unfamiliar phrases or imprecise statements.

        What he said was that Tesla “would exit 2015 at a run rate of 100,000 vehicles”
        I had to look up what that implied because my initial thought, like you, was to assume delivery of 100,000 vehicles in fiscal 2015 which didn’t jibe with the estimates that soon followed.
        How I interpret it now is he meant that by the end of the year they would be building quickly enough that *if sustained* would mean 100,000 vehicles per year.
        I consider that somewhat misleading and they didn’t achieve it – the “run rate” was closer to 85,000 which is the midpoint of the estimate for fiscal 2016.

      • SkyHunter

        Tesla guided for 55,000 vehicles in 2015. The production capacity is currently 2000 vehicles per week.
        Musk was not wrong, just off by a few months.

  • Necro Nomaken

    How is one of the questions not, “Is there really gonna be no speedometer directly in front of the driver on the dashboard?” That possibility makes me really uncomfortable.

    • Tesla reps at the reveal event claimed that the interior was “close to final” So yeah, there is a really strong possibility that there will be no traditional instrument cluster. This simplifies the build, particularly when they want to builda right hand drive versions. Speedo was on tbe top left of the central touch screen display on the prototyles. A HUD would address this, though, and then the driver would not have to look down.

      • Zippy

        Most drivers, even Tesla lovers, would hate this.

    • Carl Raymond S

      Heads up display (HUD), I strongly suspect, will feature in the reveal – part 2. Discussed at length here:
      http://cleantechnica.com/2016/05/19/large-hud-looks-likely-tesla-model-3/
      Elon tweeted that it ‘felt like a space ship’. I think that pretty well describes a HUD – especially at night.
      It’s actually better than ‘directly in front’, because a dashboard speedo isn’t directly in front, it’s obscured by the wheel and requires eyes to adjust focus, direction and possibly pupil size.

    • dogphlap dogphlap

      I understand that having the speed indicated well to the right of straight ahead may not to your liking. The rumoured heads up display may save your day. But many cars have been built with centre instruments and still are, like my first car, a mini back in the early 1960’s and I don’t remember it being a problem.
      Some folks, particularly old folks (not me as it happens) cannot focus close up (without reading glasses) so having a longer optical path from display to eye may help them to avoid lifting their spectacles to peer under them or some other less than ideal work around. Having the display further away could be a real plus for such people.

    • Ken

      It is virtually certain there will be a state-of-the-art HUD display which will be vastly superior to a regular dashboard.

      • newnodm

        “It is virtually certain there will be a state-of-the-art HUD display which will be vastly superior to a regular dashboard”

        Calm down.

        • Ken

          There is nothing in my sentence that indicates that I am not completely calm.

          Learn to read more carefully.

          • newnodm

            You sound tense

          • Ken

            Not at all. But you definitely are very tense. Calm down.

    • Others have already responded, but I’ll say that my experience using a HUD in the BMW i8 was WAY better than a conventional speedometer. And I’m not one to deal with tech changes like that in a happy-go-lucky way. Was really surprised and impressed with how much easier and more convenient it was to see.

      • Necro Nomaken

        Has tesla SAID there will be a hud? Because i’ve never seen that said by anyone but fans.

        • I haven’t seen an official confirmation. Just hints from Musk via Twitter that suggest a HUD or something similar. Most think that this will be revealed at “part 2” of the Model 3 reveal.

          • Necro Nomaken

            I’d be fine with a hud, but i would be significantly not fine with having to look over to the right to see the speedometer.

        • windbourne

          Well, the fact that they hired a number of top guns from the HUD world would kind of indicate that it is so.

        • newnodm

          “Has tesla SAID there will be a hud? Because i’ve never seen that said by anyone but fans.”

          The Model 3 seems to need one of three additional things
          1) Conventional HUD
          2) Augmented reality HUD
          3) Some sort of unconventional second driver display

          • Craig Sheahan

            4) Level 4 autonomous driving

      • Volvo has a fairly basic HUD on the XC90 which is also very cool. Informative without being intrusive. Nice to see the essentials without having to look down or over at the touch screen. But the XC90 has an instrument cluster too (and a central touch screen panel).

    • Martin Winlow

      I’m guessing you might still also be slightly concerned about using the electric telephone… (unless you’re wearing your foil hat, of course).

  • Incognito7979

    I would have thought one of the top 12 questions would have been, “how much does it weigh?” considering the Model S started at 4600 lbs. The speculation is 3200-3600 lbs, which falls within the new normal range for safety-bloated 21st century cars.

    The other thing that jumps out at me is the BMW performance comparisons. Dual electric motors enable perfect transmission of maximum torque to the ground, until the batteries run out, so it may win a stoplight drag race against a 340i, if you can find a dentist who’s feeling frisky. However, the top speed comparison is another matter – the article says the P90D will do 155 mph. The BMWs are all electronically governed to 155 because of a gentlemen’s agreement to keep things reasonable for cars driven by the general public. Delimited, the top-range 3 series (not the M3) will reach 170+ mph. Of course, such a BMW starts at $47,000 due to its proven reliability, precise handling, etc, so I might suggest a more valid comparison for the Model 3 might be a high performance Japanese car such as the Acura RLX.

    • jeffhre

      No that’s all wrong. I’m pretty sure my dentists Mercedes AMG will beat that 340i.

      • Incognito7979

        For $63,000, I would hope so. Not sure what that has to do with the Model 3, though.

    • 3200-3600 seems reasonable, but I would lean toward the higher side. The battery will still be super heavy. And it they do use steel for frame members, that is heavier than the pure aluminum used on a Model S (heavier based on comparable strength/rigidity).

      As for a comparison to a BMW 3 series, that’s what Elon/Tesla have always said they were targeting with the Model 3. The base pricing is very close, and size should also be fairly close. Also, it’s more fun to beat a BMW than anot Acura. ?

    • Carl Raymond S

      If you plan to drive at anywhere near 155mph, please stay out of my suburb.

      • Incognito7979

        Unless your suburb is between Frankfurt and Munich, there is zero chance that I will approach that velocity in your vicinity.

        • Carl Raymond S

          Thanks, much appreciated.

    • newnodm

      “The BMWs are all electronically governed to 155 because of a gentlemen’s agreement to keep things reasonable for cars driven by the general public. ”

      Tires

      • Incognito7979

        Tires are an important consideration. However, BMW fits Y rated (186 mph) tires to most of their high performance models.

    • windbourne

      ROFL.
      Other than the autobahn, no nation really allows you to drive top-end on cars. So, anything over 100 MPH is pretty wasted. For now.

      • Except on a track, which apparently some Tesla owners like to do from time to time. This may be even more popular with the Model 3 than with the S or X. Curious whether Tesla will offer a beefed up cooling system to allow more sustained high speed travel on the Model 3. Or maybe some clever aftermarket company will come up with something?

        • windbourne

          That is true. In fact, the model S failed on Germany’s Nürburgring due to overheating.
          In addition, there were 3 items that held back the X from production and one of them was overheating when towing.
          So, my understanding is that Tesla put in a different cooling on the motor(s) for both S and X.

          Personally, I would like to hear how the new MS does on the Nürburgring track. The old one actually overheated and had to drop the torque.

  • MorinMoss

    I truly hope Tesla is better able to keep their promise on the Model 3 cost than they were on the PowerPack, which was supposed to be ~$250 / kWh but is over $450.

    • Oil4AsphaltOnly

      The $250/kwh powerpack pricing was caveated for utility scale. The official $450/kwh pricing is up to 54 powerpacks (5.4MWh). I know this is no consolation to those who were expecting less, but not exactly “not keeping their promise” either.

      • neroden

        I’m also a little suspicious that the current battery pricing is actually “go away” pricing, since they have far more battery demand for cars alone than they can supply.

        The original idea was that Tesla Energy would use excess batteries which were not needed for the cars, and those aren’t going to *exist*. Once the Gigafactory gets ramped up significantly and battery production stops being a major bottleneck on car production, I suspect we may see the quoted price for Powerpacks come down.

        • Radical Ignorant

          Or Tesla is seriously dishonest in how much it cost them or this is probably best possible explanation for current prices.
          And one more thing JB said something like this: “We don’t want Tesla Motors to canibalise production for Tesla Energy”.

        • On the last conf call, JB made it clear that they expect to have enough capacity to serve demand from both industries. Elon and JB confirmed that the production capacity had been increased significantly from early plans.

          • windbourne

            THe factory is supposed to do 35 GWH of cell production and a total of 50 GWH of batteries (IOW, imports15 GWH worth of cells from Japan).
            If you assume that each M3 takes an average of 50KWH, then it is 1M cars. Obviously, 100KWH would be .5M cars. So, the reality is that the average battery (including those from M[SX]) will be 75 KWH, which will mean .75M cars.
            So, considering that they are looking at less than .5M total cars from this plant, it will mean that they will have no big deal dealing with cars, energy and expansion of new lines in other nations.

          • Cowpocalypse_Now

            One of the problems they may have is lithium supply. I read that at full capacity they will consume twice the worlds current supply of lithium.

          • Bob_Wallace

            Supply is what the industry is cranking out now. Supply is based on demand.

            Vehicle batteries are going to create much higher demand. New mines and processing plants are being set up to meet that demand.

            There is no shortage of lithium in the Earth’s crust and in seawater. Lithium is the 25th most common element on Earth.

          • windbourne

            nah. Not only do we have plenty in America, but we can actually grab all the Li that the world needs from the oceans.

        • Rick Stonehouse

          Panasonic said they will meet all the supply needs for the M3

          • Panasonic said it “can” move up its investment in the Gigafactory to increase cell production, “if asked.” The implication being that they haven’t been asked. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/panasonic-move-investment-tesla-battery-072754699.html – and this would be the raw cells. The packs still need to be manufactured from those cells. I understand the cells are normaly the limiting factor, but the battery packs don’t build themselves (well actually, seeing how automated the Tesla plant is in Fremont… maybe they do)?

          • Rick Stonehouse

            I thought the cells were being made elsewhere (hence talks with LG as well) and the battery packs were being made at the Gigafactory, at least initially (until Gigafactory goes into full operation). Also thought Panasonic workers were employed at the Gigafactory as part of the partnership with Tesla. Either way, having access to the cells is a big part of moving forward (as is influx of cash).

          • That’s my understanding as well: that the cells are still being made somewhere else (Japan?) but the packs are already being assembled in Sparks, NV. But the goal is to bring cell and pack production completely in-house with both Panasonic and Tesla employees (and maybe other manufacturers too?) working in the Gigafactory. The roadster battery upgrade uses LG cells. It’s possible that Tesla will need to (or want to) work with more than one cell supplier for diversification of risk (or just to motivate all suppliers to achieve the best performance and lowest cost).

          • windbourne

            the reason for going to LG and other south Koreans was 2 fold:
            1) to make sure that they have enough to handle tesla energy ordering ‘explosion’ (no pun intended). They believe that Tesla energy will rival Tesla Motors.
            2) to get inroads into South Korea. Right now, South Korea is blocking them with tariffs similar to China’s. SO, by currying favor, they hope to open massive roads (ok, a few puns)

          • windbourne

            The roadster was all about making robotics for the drivetrain include the battery pack.
            And yes, in Tesla, the battery pack production is pretty much fully automated.

          • newnodm

            TRY to meet

    • I think they’re really on the hook for that $35K price tag. They’ve announced it and confirmed it on many occasions. If they keep it simple, get the pack costs down enough and charge for supercharger access, I believe they can hit that $35K target for the base price and still make a profit. Of course, all the *really* cool stuff is going to be optional, so the ASP is probably going to be well over $40K (I suspect closer to $50K, particularly for the first couple of quarters while they’re expediting the highly optioned models).

      • RobertM

        Elon twitted they expected the avg a Model 3 was going to sell for was going to be $42,000. Although with everything that is happening that could be off.

        • Yeah, I saw that, and assume that it is informed by the ASP they’ve seen on the Model S and X (the take rates for features like AutoPilot, larger battery, Premium Upgrades Package, etc.). But I’m not sure if he meant that he expected that to be the average selling price of the Model 3 in the first 6 months, or the first year, or the average overall once the car has been in production a while. The higher optioned Model 3s should be built first so I expect the ASP of the cars built in the first 6 months will be over $50K. But this is just a gut feel based on how much I expect the options to cost and how popular I think they will be.

          We could definitely see a lower take rate on options on the less expensive Model 3 than we’ve seen on the pricier Model S and X. And Musk may also make an effort to build at least a few of the base Model 3s at $35K in the first six months, just to prove that they can, in fact, sell *and deliver* a Model 3 for $35K.

          We’re about 5 months into real (non-Founders) deliveries of the Model X and they have yet to deliver a single 75D (the $83K base model). I know things should be different with the Model 3, for a number of reasons, but I do expect that most who want a lower optioned Model 3 will be waiting longer than those who want a fully loaded PXXD.

          • jeffhre

            “…he expected that to be the average selling price of the Model 3 in the first 6 months, or the first year, or the average overall once the car has been in production a while. The higher optioned Model 3s should be built first so I expect the ASP of the cars built in the first 6 months will be over $50K.”

            Good point. And I’m certain multiple critics will say these were all lies, which proves he is running a Ponzi scheme designed to fleece buyers while pumping up the stock!

          • Agreed. Doesn’t make sense that would be the ASP for the first 6 months. But everyone’s guessing at this point anyway. Even Elon doesn’t have superb insight on what 400,000 people will want in their Model 3s.

          • Rick Stonehouse

            He didn’t give a time frame so it would make sense it is the average over time. He was illustrating that although the base price is $35k most people will add $7k in options.

          • windbourne

            no, but you can guess that a large number will want the bigger battery back, since it is faster. Dual will almost certainly be applied to a good 2/3, if not 3/4. of them. And I would not be surprised to see P added to at least 1/2 if not 2/3.

            We have a 2013 85 KWh MS, and it amazes me how many ppl assume that it has the P on it. Everybody thinks that it is as fast as a Ferrari. A 0-60 4.2 is respectable, but, still not a 2.6. So, I expect to see loads of Ps on the M3.

          • RobertM

            windbourne,

            I think your estments are a bit high. This isn’t a high end luxury vehicle were are talking about. Many people will be pushing just getting to the 35k mark. Just look at the BMW 3 series they sale many more stripped down versions compared to there

          • windbourne

            I can see what you are saying and why.
            However, with the MS, these are three options that were popular.

          • RobertM

            windbourne,

            I can see where you are coming from. I think Supercharger unless they make it something like 10k will be on 90% or more of sold module 3’s. But most of the other options are luxury items at least for people who have never tired some of those things. I think their pick rates will be much lower then 2/3 to 1/2.

            I hate to start comparing cars but if you look at the Leaf sales. The S still sells better then the SV and SL and both the SL and SV both include more miles and a DC fast charger ports besides the rest of the extra’s they each get. Please don’t take me wrong I am not comparing the 2 cars only the historical difference in trims and how they sale.

            Thanks
            Robert

          • windbourne

            well, the interesting thing is, that we will probably find out in 1.5 years.

          • QKodiak

            Your statement is highly inaccurate. BMW sells very few base vehicles. They are a rare animal indeed. If one is buying a BMW, why would you get a vehicle without navigation, power seats, and leather? That makes no sense. That’s why dealers simply don’t stock them but instead have plenty of mid-high optioned Bimmers on the lot, with only a few fully loaded models for test drives.

          • RobertM

            I could very well be wrong. I have herd reference many times that especially in EU low end BMW Series 3 sell very well because people want a BMW and that is the cheapest of them so they get the more stripped down version to they have 1 vs not having 1.

          • QKodiak

            The European mentality is definitely different than the American one.

    • What it look like

      I give it 50 50 they succeed on keeping cost down. However, if we collectively keep supporting this technology, if not Tesla, someone will get there. I am very supportive of Tesla because they make so much of their technology open source. It tells me there are real ideals behind the company.

      • MorinMoss

        My support for Tesla is largely because they’ve gone to the trouble to build an entire ecosystem about electric cars, are all-in on pure EVs and have so strongly promoted transport electrification.
        Renault-Nissan have more types of vehicles and have sold much more overall but it still feels like they’re hedging their bets, years after Carlos Ghosn promised a multi-billion$ investment.

        • windbourne

          BINGO.
          They have their leaf and nv1000 junk. Yet, they have had electric for what, 6 years? And they started work on it nearly 10 years ago.
          So, why not more models?
          Why have the done NOTHING but minor mods to the leaf in all this time (the nv1000 is a joke; it really is half the car they think it is).

      • windbourne

        they will keep the costs of M3 down. Not the least bit worried about it.
        Most ppl do not realize that Tesla actually makes money on the MS. It is adding all the rest in, such as superchargers, new show rooms, service centers, legal issues with the GOPs, new production lines, new models, etc, that is causing the real costs.

    • SkyHunter

      You are confused. The backup battery was $250/kWh. There was no demand, so they discontinued it.

      • QKodiak

        He is factoring in the cost of the inverter.

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