Batteries

Published on October 2nd, 2015 | by Zachary Shahan

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Tesla Model 3 Or Model Y Will Have Falcon-Wing Doors, Model Xs Recognize Each Other, & 7 Other Elon Musk Tweets

October 2nd, 2015 by  

Originally published on EV Obsession.

As tends to happen with any Tesla announcement, the media has gone a little loopy after the unveiling of the Model X. A lot of mainstream media reporters simply don’t understand some things or get their “facts” all jumbled in epic Fox News style (but inadvertently… rather than part of a massive evil plan). Tesla enthusiasts get loopy as well, of course, jumping into speculation land as they try to connect the dots.

And then Elon comes to the rescue on Twitter.

About an hour ago, Elon started sending tweets out to clarify things and then also to answer questions. Below are almost all of those tweets, preceded by subheadings and extra text that spell things out in non-Twitter language and adds a bit of context.

Tesla Model Xs Recognize Each Other

Tesla Model X SUVs will recognize each other when parked next to each other in order to prevent the falcon-wing doors from opening into each other. (Suweet!) I think I first saw concern about such situations in comments under one of our articles, or maybe over on the Tesla Motors Club forum. This is the super-cool sci-fi solution I was hoping for but cautiously assuming wasn’t the real-world story. Thanks to our friend Brian Henderson for asking about this, and an obvious thanks to Elon for answering!

Lower-Range Model X Will Be Built… Someday

One of the hottest topics of concern and speculation has been whether or not Tesla will offer a lower-range Model X using a 70 kWh battery, or something similar — rather than just the 90D and P90D versions currently rated by the EPA. It seemed that was confirmed when Elon recently tweeted that lower-cost versions were planned, but it wasn’t super explicit (what size battery? when?). We still don’t have all the details, but it seems the details aren’t worked out yet. What we do now know is that it will be ~70 kWh (“something like a 70”) and the estimated time of arrival is ~12 months from now.

We won’t start talking about “Tesla time” and all of that, but ~12 months is perhaps when long-term X reservations will finally be under control a bit (there are currently ~30,000), so perhaps Tesla is just holding off until these higher-priced, higher-margin Xs are not in such high demand. Or perhaps Tesla wants to achieve some battery improvements before rolling these Xs out. Anyhow, here’s the tweet:


 

Falcon-Wing Doors For The Masses!

While the Tesla Model S and Tesla Model X are record-shattering electric sedans and SUVs for the 1% or so, Tesla’s/Elon’s chief aim for years has been to accelerate the adoption of electric vehicles across the board, and the cornerstone of that effort is an affordable Tesla Model 3 (~$35,000 before any incentives). The base architecture of the Tesla Model 3 will also be used for a crossover version (like the Model X is a crossover/SUV version of the Model S). We’ve long known that Tesla trademarked Model Y and Model E as well as Model S & Model X (read: S-E-X-Y) but then had to drop Model E because of a lawsuit threat from Ford (the “3” Model 3 will actually be written like an E to solve that existential problem — see this as an example), but I don’t recall Elon stating that this crossover version of the Model 3 would be the Model Y (maybe I missed or forgot it).

Annnnyyyyhow, the awesome news is that Elon/Tesla is planning to use the Model X’s wicked falcon-wing doors in either the Model 3 or Model Y. Yoohoo!!

The Wings Will Keep You Dry

Speaking of those falcon wings, a concern that people continuously bring up is, “but, but… what about rain?” (Btw, the concern comes in various forms, which is why I kept my fake quote super general.) When it comes to getting in or out with those falcon-wing doors, have no fear, the rain will not eat you. Check this out:

“Upper interior trim has hydrophobic coating.” Come on, Elon — you know you are just talking like that to make the girls’ knees chatter! Damn sexy with all those fancy si-ins words, eh?

Speaking Of…

When responding to someone’s smartass/playful comment about how the driver can get out in super tight parking spaces, believe it or not, Elon had an answer:

Raise your hand if you’ve used the word “chamfered” in the past 12 months (engineers, this request is not for you).

Poor ladies….

Storage In Doors Lives!

One thing many people don’t like about the Model S (and others like, of course) is that there aren’t many pockets — in the doors, between the seats, etc — for sticking things like papers, tablets, pens, phones, and so on. A RuairΓ­ McGowan asked about storage in the Model X, and Elon had another positive answer — storage lives again!

The Roof Can Be Used

I believe this has been mentioned previously on a conference call, but Elon mentioned it again and provided some extra detail. The tweet covers the bases:

The Bioweapons Defense Filter

I’m not sure why Elon tweeted this, since it’s just a reiteration of what I presented the other night, but I assume it’s in response to a lame media statement that tried to somehow “prove Elon wrong” (note: unless it’s in reference to timelines, it’s probably not a good idea to attempt that to anyone but the daft chap in your head… you know the guy).

As quickly as he came, he disappeared again. Sir Elon will rise again, either on the wings of a falcon or the wings of a Twitter bird. Just keep your eyes peeled, and believe in Tesla magic.

And by the way, Elon is 6’2″, not the 5’11” or 6’0″ Google variously puts him at. Must be Larry Page playing a joke or something. πŸ˜‰


Check out our new 93-page EV report, based on over 2,000 surveys collected from EV drivers in 49 of 50 US states, 26 European countries, and 9 Canadian provinces.

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About the Author

is tryin' to help society help itself (and other species) with the power of the typed word. He spends most of his time here on CleanTechnica as its director and chief editor, but he's also the president of Important Media and the director/founder of EV Obsession, Solar Love, and Bikocity. Zach is recognized globally as a solar energy, electric car, and energy storage expert. Zach has long-term investments in TSLA, FSLR, SPWR, SEDG, & ABB β€” after years of covering solar and EVs, he simply has a lot of faith in these particular companies and feels like they are good cleantech companies to invest in.



  • Robert Pollock

    When we leased our Chevy Spark EV two years ago, the Chevrolet people were in such disarray, they didn’t know what DC Fast Charging was. Consequently we got a car that doesn’t have it. I knew that during the two weeks it took to close the deal and I told them numerous times but no one at the dealership listened, or had any interest in Electric Cars. In the end, it doesn’t matter, we charge at night mostly while we’re sleeping but I pulled back the $2000 deposit by calling the credit card company. Chevy took about a month to realize they didn’t get paid. First level of debate when they tried to recover the money was the BBB, because they’d also switched the lease. Their sales manager responded for their side and looked so stupid they quit.
    All in all, a laughable experience. Chevrolet, wanting to stay forever in a “Happy Days” world.

  • boBNunny

    Can do without you pinpointing Fox News like no other outlets get the facts wrong such as CNN reporting that the Model X will get a $25K tax CREDIT for everyone which is just plain wrong. Stick to car news please?

  • RexSeven

    “Falcon Wing” doors are F%$KING STUPID. If the the 3 has them, I won’t buy one. If it doesn’t I probably will. BTW – I wish Fox News was the only news outlet that slanted their coverage because of political bias. Anyone that thinks they are is too stupid to pay any attention to.

    • Xander66

      Falcon wing doors are not only practical……they are flat out koooool.

      Fox news doesn’t “slant” their news…….They outright LIE.

      Anyone who does not recognise this lacks the intellectual capacity necessary to employ the critical thinking and reasoning necessary to recognize or understand what a credible source is when you encounter it.

      • RexSeven

        You were almost right once. They are cool, but it’s spelled with a C and only two OO’s. You might be thinking of Kool Aid. You’ve probably drank a lot of that.

        First, if they are so practical, why didn’t they put them on the front doors too? Because they are not practical, they are cool.
        Second, Tesla has already proven they can build a car that works. They were smart enough to build a low volume, expensive car to start with. It’s easier to build in low volume and new technology is expensive so it was the way to go. Now they have to take expense out of the car. The FW doors are more expensive than conventional doors so they should go. Besides, they are NOT more practical.

        I want to emphasize am not a Telsa hater. I will buy a 3 if it is cheap enough and fits my range needs and I like the way it drives. AND if the quality is not compromised by the cost reduction effort.

        Here’s a little piece of free advice, if you’re going to use a big, long, elaborate sentence for no other reason than to make yourself seem smart, don’t spell the same word two different ways within said sentence… Unless of course, you started the sentence as a citizen of Great Britain and became a United States citizen before the second “recognize”. If you did, I apologize and defer to your dizzying intellect, Vizzini.

        • Xander66

          Woww…..Holi schitt…..And hear eye thot you wood never no it wus mi that pissed in yor koffee. Luks like I bin cot.

          ” if they are so practical, why didn’t they put them on the front doors too” iz a stooopid question.

          Here is another stooopid question: If sliding doors on minivans are so practical, why didn’t they put them on the front doors too?

          And itz: Vissini – not Vizzini…..

          Coz I recognise and aknowlege yor disying intallekt, eye will defur tu you and promis not to pis in yur koffee no mor, but eye do gotta keep spellin 2 difrunt wayz in wun sentense.

          • Rex Seven

            A whole month for that, huh? I stand by my belief that the FW’s are for effect not function. They would be a negative on the 3 because of price concerns.

            I do apologize for starting this conversation in a vulgar and aggressive way. It provokes people and doesn’t accomplish much.

  • WuestenBlitz

    Why would I buy buy a car from GM? They had years to build an electric car and chose not to. Now that someone else has they decide to jump on the bandwagon. Screw GM and the rest of the major automakers. They have been comprising our safety, health, and planet in the name of profit for years. On top of that their purchasing model is a nightmare to the consumer. So I could give a crap if the Bolt is cheaper. I stand with Tesla and put my vote of confidence with Elon. By the actions and ethics of Tesla they have earned the right to my loyalty and money.

  • Super and Easiest 0nl!nee Home opportunity for all. Make Extra Cash Every per month. All you just Need an Internet Connection and a Computer To Make Some Extra cash.Visit my dis profile….

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  • Waiting to be bribed

    6’2″, that’s oddly tall for a smart guy.

  • Joe Viocoe

    Reliability Concern:

    When power windows first came out.. many automakers had reliability issues with those. After subsequent generations… like most things… the engineering got better… and now, power windows don’t break as often.
    Tesla seems to move very fast with engineering innovation.

    Just like Tesla’s retractable door handles… the mechanics were more complex than anything before.
    And yes, Tesla DID have reliability issues at first too. But they are quick to re-engineer and patch.

    Will the Falcon Wing doors have reliability issues… probably yes. But how quickly will Tesla address and fix those issues? For a premium vehicle during the low volume phase, probably very quickly.
    This is the benefit of trying the most risky innovations on premium buyers. The automaker can address any issues quickly.
    By the time Falcon Wing doors hit mass market vehicles… bugs will be worked out.

  • neroden

    Maybe the storage space in the doors will migrate to next year’s model S design. I think that would be popular.

  • kas

    Flacon Wing Doors to Model 3…. NOOOOOO… NOOOO….. flacon wings ugly… :/

    • Looks like one option will have them and one won’t. Like S doesn’t but X does.

  • Samitha Gamalath

    Please Tesla/Elon. Please don’t fit falcon wings into the affordable model 3 sedan.
    But if you really want to fit falcon doors to the upcoming model 3 please be kind enough to offer normal doors as an option/variant. Thank you. We love Tesla.

    • Bob_Wallace

      If they didn’t add significant cost I’d probably would pick the falcons.

      Yesterday was town day. Haul in the recycle and haul back a couple weeks of groceries, etc. It would have been much easier loading in and loading out all that stuff if the doors swung up out of the way.

      With side hinged doors there’s a lot of closing and opening in order to get the job done. They sometimes block the path.

      • neroden

        That’s why I use the trunk, with the rear liftgate, in the Model S.

        • Bob_Wallace

          So you recognize that a door that goes up and gets out of one way makes things easier.

          Which is what falcon doors on the side so. ;o)

          • Rich

            For the people concerned about the falcon doors, I don’t believe this is an issue of better door design in sunny weather. This is a concern around weather (rain, sleet, hail, freezing rain, snow, high winds). Those having to get in and out of the back seat on a regular basis are probably doing so due to infants and toddlers.
            This is a simple concept. If you live in a geography with cold and wet or just wet seasons, you know holding an umbrella 3 feet above your head is like having no umbrella at all.

          • Bob_Wallace

            You’d have to be about four feet tall in order for the door to be three feet over your head.

    • It looks like they are offering both (as with the S and X), but no sure about both in one model. I’d definitely choose the falcon wings, and know plenty of others would. Would be very curious to see how the split in preference would be.

      • Samitha Gamalath

        Thanks for your view. But I’m amongst those who prefer the conventional doors. Cheers!

        • Xander66

          I hear ya. Just curious, what problems have you personally run into with the falcon doors so far. Also do you own a smart phone? I don’t. They are expensive, they have no cord so you can forget where you put it down (then what) and if you forget to plug it in, the battery goes dead (then what). At least, that’s how I imagine it would be.

          • Samitha Gamalath

            Hello Xander. I have not run into any problems with falcon doors since I don’t own a vehicle with falcon doors. But the main problem I foresee for me is I don’t want to be the centre of attention in public and with falcon doors that is not possible πŸ™‚ haha enjoyed reading your description on phones πŸ˜€ and yes I don’t own a smart phone either. I currently have a Nokia 5230 – I wouldn’t call it a Smart phone πŸ™‚

    • RexxSee

      Go and give them a try before rejecting them, please? And tell us about them then.

      • Samitha Gamalath

        Yes I would really like to inspect them and look at how it works etc I’m really interested in this aspect of it. But what ticks me off about the falcon doors mainly is the fact that getting out of the back door of your vehicle in public is made into such a spectacle that everyone in the vicinity would just stop and stare!! Yes it is the selling point for almost everyone who wants falcon wings. But not for me.

        • Joe Viocoe

          That’s only because it’s new.

          So what $132,000 vehicle can you get out of, that people won’t stop and notice? At that price, that is kinda the point. People pay good money for attention.

          • Samitha Gamalath

            Agreed! for a $132,000 car it’s all about about esteem/ego. But I’m talking about the upcoming $35,000 model 3.

          • Joe Viocoe

            By the time any falcon wing doors are on an economy car… it would not be so attention grabbing.

          • Samitha Gamalath

            Yes Other mass-market car manufacturers will also need to follow and stick to the trend. .But still it will take a very long time for people to see the opening and closing of falcon wing doors in a car as a normal sight. πŸ™‚

  • Dag Johansen

    It would certainly be the Model Y with the Falcon wing doors. And what the heck is the Model Y?

    The Model 3 is designed to be affordable and that would preclude the overly-complex and expensive falcon-doors.

    • Bob_Wallace

      I wonder how much extra cost the falcon doors add? An extra pair of hinges per door. Some motors and sensors. Is that big expense or modest expense?

      By the time Tesla is producing 500k cars a year (assuming they will get there, Marion) they will likely offer several models. At a much smaller annual volume they now have two models. One has falcon doors and one doesn’t.

      Maybe there will be a Mod3 sedan, a roadster, and a SUV/crossover with falcon doors. Each at different price points.

      • Knetter

        Dont forget the truck!! I need an EV truck, 200 miles and supercharging. PLEASE Elon, Pleeease.

        • neroden

          The BEV pickup is a tremendous underutilized market segment.

          • Anti Lord Kelvin

            We will have to wait for the gigafactory at full speed, new 20700 cells and slightly better enduring drive-train, so maybe by 2020, with a 120-140 kWh battery, an 320 miles range at half load, and maybe 250 miles range at full load, but I’m only guessing.

      • “I wonder how much extra cost the falcon doors add? An extra pair of hinges per door. Some motors and sensors. Is that big expense or modest expense?”
        -Yes, I’m super curious. Perhaps the engineering was the real hurdle and now it’s not a big deal to put them in a cheaper vehicle.

        • Anti Lord Kelvin

          I think that the extra cost could be important, but by the time when it will be put in the more affordable Model Y (?), the cost of R.& D. will be absorbed by the Model X sales (that the reason of selling high-end vehicles first to develop new things before putting it in affordable vehicles).

        • Ivor O’Connor

          I think there will be many hidden costs. I’ll be super surprised if these doors don’t become a huge costly problem and in a few years be discontinued.

          • Bob_Wallace

            They are doors. How often does someone have to get their car door repaired?

            They have electric motors that operate them. If properly selected those motors should outlast the rest of the car body.

            Windshield wiper motors – replace them often? Power window motors – replace them often? Both will operate far more cycles than the door motors.

          • Ivor O’Connor

            The doors introduce a whole new set of potential problems. People use cars not just in a garage. There may be tree limbs to deal with. Will the sensors and programming avoid problems? Will the sensors work when covered with dirt and mud on the country roads? The permutations of edge cases are numerous. Tesla has a reputation to uphold. It seems very likely the edge cases will cost Tesla dearly…

          • Bob_Wallace

            Eyes roll…..

          • Ivor O’Connor

            You optimistic kid!

          • Xander66

            When I was 26 (46 years ago) I bought a car with power windows and my father warned me about the dangers. He said: “Just one more thing to break down and if you get into an accident how will you get out of the car if you can’t roll the windows down with a crank”. You sound just like him.

          • Ivor O’Connor

            I’ve probably seen a handful of windows that no longer worked that were crank driven. And probably about 20 power windows that failed. So I find it interesting you think your dad was off the rails. Problems happen. Especially with new tech.

            True auto manufacturers have a hard time getting things just right. So they fail in 10 to 20 years and not in the first 6 months. It takes time to factor in the “correct” obsolescence which I expect Tesla can completely overstep.

          • Xander66

            You’ve had some bad luck with both crank and power windows. I’ve never had any problems with either. I’ve had a radio fail and also a transmission, so I quit buying cars that had them ’cause…..that only made sense….warned my son as well, but he wouldn’t listen πŸ™‚

          • Ivor O’Connor

            πŸ™‚

        • Joe Viocoe

          When power windows first came out.. many automakers had reliability issues with those. After subsequent generations… like most things… the engineering got better… and now, power windows don’t break as often.
          Tesla seems to move very fast with engineering innovation.

          Just like Tesla’s retractable door handles… the mechanics were more complex than anything before.
          And yes, Tesla DID have reliability issues at first too. But they are quick to re-engineer and patch.

          Will the Falcon Wing doors have reliability issues… probably yes. But how quickly will Tesla address and fix those issues? For a premium vehicle during the low volume phase, probably very quickly.
          This is the benefit of trying the most risky innovations on premium buyers. The automaker can address any issues quickly.
          By the time Falcon Wing doors hit mass market vehicles… bugs will be worked out.

    • Brent Jatko

      “And what the heck is the Model Y?”

      I’m left wondering that, myself. I Googled it and got some photos of a sports car concept that looks “Lamborghini-ish.”

      • Bob_Wallace

        The assumed Tesla EV selling for “Camry” prices.

        The completion of the S E X Y path to EVs destroying ICEVs and removing petroleum from our personal transportation.

        X showed up before E. And Ford played jerk and made E into 3.

      • Rich

        If I had to guess, the Tesla Model 3 should be a smaller version of the Model S. The Model Y will be the CUV built on the same platform as the Model 3.
        Model S = Sedan
        Model X = crossover
        Model E = Economy
        Model Y = ?

        • I think Y doesn’t stand for anything, just completes the acronym: S-3-X-Y

          • Michael B

            That’s not an acronym, that’s a word. πŸ˜‰
            It’s sort of an inverse acronym, actually! (I think. Wait…)

          • Ivor O’Connor
          • Michael B

            Thanks for that link and site, but it’s not an initialism either. My point was that traditional acronyms are words made from the letters of predefined or existing phrase, whereas in this case, the word (SEXY) is driving the dynamic, and the letters of the word/’acronym’ don’t stand for *words*, but actually stand for their respective letters(!!) Which is sort of an inverse of an acronym… sort of. We need a new word for this! (not)

            ps. Tesla, always innovating. πŸ™‚

          • Ivor O’Connor

            I would not be surprised if a word already exists. Literature majors have a lot of time on their hands…

      • Rich

        IMO, Tesla would be foolish to create a sports car on the Model 3 platform before they create a CUV and small pickup truck. Looking at the market segment size for each, this wouldn’t make economic sense.

        • QKodiak

          From what I’ve gathered, the Model III sports sedan and Model Y sporty crossover will debut simultaneously, concurrently, at the same time, together…

          • Joe Viocoe

            Where did you gather that info?

      • I think it’ll be the crossover version of the Model 3. Like the X is to the S.

    • “certainly” is a strong word when Elon just said “One of the two will.” If it was decided, seems he’d say “The Model Y will have them.”

  • Larry

    FOX News screwed it up? No surprise there. Reporters at FOX don’t have to worry about reporting facts and getting their stories straight. If your prime objective is to misinform, most any idiocy will get you there

    • Carolyn Hoyt

      my last pay check was $17559 working 8 hours a week online. My sisters friend has been averaging 16k for monthsnow and she works about 18 hours a week. I can’t believe howeasy it was once I tried it out. This is what I do…
      ..xus…….
      >➀➀➀➀➀➀ http://www.GooglesMoney11.Tk

      !!#############################################################!!

    • Brent Jatko

      Agreed. I read a survey somewhere that said Fox News watchers actually were negatively impacted by watching Fox News; in other words, they came away with less true information than they had before watching Fox.

      • Rich

        If this wasn’t so sad, it would be funny.

    • Bob_Wallace

      No, they have an agenda. Their reporting has to toe the party line. Idiocy must be carefully crafted.

      • Larry

        Thanks for the affirmation, Bob. I totally agree, but I was trying to change the tone of my postings to something not quite so negative and cynical. That’s really hard where FOX is concerned.

  • TD1

    Elon Musk repeatedly warns about the development of artificial intelligence, yet is in the forefront of developing machines with ever increasing decision making abilities that replace functions previously performed by humans, machines that can also carry people at over 100mph.

    If the doors have object detection sensors then a collision can be avoided without communication and this is all that is necessary. If the car’s computers communicate data with each then potentially a new vulnerability has been developed. At the very least a new mode for a future vulnerability has been incorporated.

    Furthermore owners will now become accustomed to cars collectively making decisions for them, decisions that they would previously have made themselves. A threat from artificial intelligence develops incrementally.

    If Elon Musk is genuinely concerned about the development of artificial intelligence then he will be able to demonstrate this with the products produced by Tesla.

    • JP

      Be prepared to get slapped by a falcon door or two if you piss it off πŸ˜‰

  • Karl the brewer

    I did indeed use the word ‘chamfer’ 2 weeks ago πŸ™‚

  • Riely Rumfort

    Random question Zachary, do vendors cut checks for press at all?

    • Ronald Brakels

      Random question Riely, are you a liar who says he asking a random when he is actually suggesting that an article is actually an advertisment?

      I’m not asking for any reason, it’s just a random question.

      • Riely Rumfort

        Nope, just wondering if their fund come solely from visits or if they scratch the back of those who put out there news.
        Even if they did, such is the world, I wouldn’t see it as corrupt but the routine happenings of capitalism.

        • Ronald Brakels

          Income comes from the advertisments you see at the side. Ad revenue isn’t a lot, so the site is more a labor of love. Anything that is an advertisment will be labeled as such as it is ethically very naughty not to do so. I thought you were suggesting that Zach was being unethical and that’s why my reply was rude.

          As for my being rude, you are correct that there was no need for it. Sometimes I’m a little quick off the mark to assume people are trolls. There are a lot of them about you know, who show up now and then claiming there is no such thing as global warming or that human activity has no effect on climate, or that electric cars result in as much emissions as internal combustion engine cars, and so on. So I am a tad defensive.

          • Riely Rumfort

            It’s cool, I know how it goes, crossed many a troll bridge myself.

        • Tone is hard to grasp in text. As a non-familiar “face” around here, I think the tone was missed and it seemed like trolling. Happy it wasn’t. πŸ˜€

    • Yeah, definitely.

      Not sure if I’m missing context/implications with the question here (we get no $$ from Tesla), but this is the avenue much of the media world has been traveling down.

      • Riely Rumfort

        Yes, that was my inquiry, whether they fund you directly for press releases, question answered.

        • We don’t get a thing from Tesla — except good news… and corrections when we make a mistake.

          I agree we deserve something. πŸ˜€ Think we’ve brought more positive attention to Tesla than nearly any other site. Not saying the big sites don’t have a huge effect, but hey just do a story here or there. Anyhow, though, Tesla is getting a crazy amount of positive press on merit. Happy to be a part of it.

          And just to be clear, when we do write sponsored content, we make it very clear. Same if we get our transport/accommodation covered by a company.

          We also do get a lot of revenue from the solar lead-generation ads on the site. They enable a lot of our content, so we’re very thankful for them, and they do clearly send a ton of people to solar installers, which we’re happy about.

  • Defendor

    “Falcon-Wing Doors For The Masses!”

    Noooooooo!

    Epic Darth Vader NOOOOOOooooooooo!!!

    I didn’t care about them on the Model X because I have no X aspirations, but don’t ruin the affordable model with them.

    I seriously hate those things. Gimicky, slow as hell, and what happens with a foot of snow on them (Not everyone lives is Southern California), and there is bound to be endless things going wrong with them.

    IMO Falcon doors are easily the worse thing that Tesla has ever done.

    • Joe Viocoe

      Then buy the Model 3… The Model Y will be the one that gets the falcon wing doors.

      And you are still making all the same assumptions about the doors that nobody yet has reviewed independently.

      We’ve got a few years, we will all know whether these problems with the doors really exist, or not… Long before they start building the next gen vehicles.

      • juxx0r

        I wish Cleantechnica would start a list of stuff that doesn’t work with a foot of snow on it. Sometimes I’m confused whether i need to brush the snow off things or whether they still work with a foot of snow on them. I’ll start:

        Pop-up-toasters
        toast
        top loading VCRs
        1 foot of snow (otherwise it’d be 2 feet of snow)
        pillows
        keyboards
        Falcon Wing Doors

        Keep them coming people.

        • Joe Viocoe

          It’s ridiculous that people stretch their arguments like that…
          A foot of snow requires that you dig your front and rear windows out anyway. And most of the time, in those frozen mornings, you don’t need the rear doors anyway.

          • juxx0r

            I lived in Scandinavia and there it was illegal to drive off down the road with a foot of snow on the roof because when it let go it blinded the cars behind. Maybe it’s legal in Retardville.

          • neroden

            The US is indeed Stupidville in this regard, juxx0r.

        • a foot of snow..on the side of the car?

          • Knetter

            It happens, wet snow will stick.

          • Martin

            Well the place there I live, I have a picture of my clothesline with 4 ” of snow AROUND IT and another picture of my power line/ telephone line with 4-6 ” donuts around it (several)

        • lol πŸ˜€

        • Karl the brewer

          Solar panels πŸ˜‰

          • RexxSee

            Actually solar panels have a pronounced angle in northern regions. The slope, with the dark color, help the melting snow clean up the panels at the first sun ray.
            More over, when the ground is covered with snow, the albedo hitting the panels can reach .9, that is more reflexion of light and more power.
            And lastly, many electric devices work better in the cold. It is also true for solar panels.

          • BigWu

            PV panels don’t clear “at the first sun ray” unless that causes the ambient temperature to rise above freezing (remember that panels have airspace below them, typically 3-6″, so the warm airflow below them heats the glass and the snow slides off).

            But even if it’s well below freezing, provided there isn’t too much wind, they usually do clear within the first couple of hours of sunlight. Enough light penetrates the snow and strikes the panels to heat the glass above freezing. That bottom layer of snow melts, creating a slick surface and voilΓ , sub-freezing avalanche!

          • RexxSee

            Of course, it was only an expression. I’m a poet! πŸ™‚
            But they do clear surprisingly fast though.

          • Bob_Wallace

            “But even if it’s well below freezing, provided there isn’t too much wind, they usually do clear within the first couple of hours of sunlight.”

            Mine don’t. Even with temperatures above freezing.

            Remember, many panels are roof mounted and may be snow shedding due to escaped building heat. Mine are ground mounted and I have to go out and clear them even after the Sun is shining strongly.

            Or at least I did back when it used to snow here….

          • RexxSee

            Strange, I have seen a documentary about a solar farm in Ontario. They found the snow was a blessing as they didn’t have to manually clean the thousands of panels… and I read about the dust problems on such arrays in the desert areas of Morroco and the likes.

            Maybe the texture of your panels is not smooth enough?

          • Karl the brewer

            I think your frivolity radar i down πŸ™‚

            I agree with you 100%

      • Defendor

        Some things aren’t assumptions. I can see that doors are slow as hell.

        It’s also a complex mess of motors/sensor/software to open a friggen door.

        • Joe Viocoe

          You know… THAT is a fair argument.

          • Bob_Wallace

            Just wait for the Tesla Model D90 X DFD.

            (Damned Fast Doors)

            Seems to me that ordinary cars have become so ‘luxurious’ that in order to call something a luxury car one has to add more and more and more features.

            Needed/desired or not.

        • RexxSee

          No they are not slow, what you saw is when cars are parked very near the X. On normal conditions they take 5-6 seconds to open.

          • Michael B

            5-6 seconds is pretty slow for a door. Heck, I could be moving 100mph in that amount of time! πŸ˜‰

          • QKodiak

            The automatic doors on minivans are just as “slow.” This is a non-issue and an example of someone finding fault with something they think is pointless and thus they don’t like it, therefore it’s problematic junk.

          • RexxSee

            With the doors opening, you will take off! πŸ™‚

        • QKodiak

          The automatic doors on minivans are just as “slow.” This is a non-issue.

        • Joe Viocoe

          Tesla has already shown the car moving while the doors are ‘almost closed’.
          I don’t think the speed is going to be an issue.

          How fast do back seat passengers need to egress? Do the need to ‘stand up, hook up and shuffle’?
          If the key fob starts to open the doors before you can fully walk up.. there won’t be a wait for ingress either.

    • BigWu

      “what happens with a foot of snow on them”

      Please see the Golden Rule (i.e., ethic of reciprocity, do unto others…) which, translated into modern parlance, says “don’t be a d!ck!”

      When you’re travelling with children, yes, you’ll be forced to abide the golden rule and set a good example.

      I suppose you can take solace in the fact that you can still induce whiteout conditions and hurl chunks of ice at those unfortunates behind you when you’re alone or with an adult passenger (the front doors open per the norm). Totally d!ckish, but doable.

      • Knetter

        I call them Tank Commanders.
        Aka morons.

    • mike_dyke

      “what happens with a foot of snow on them?”

      Open one door, snow rises up with door which in turn pushes rest of snow off the other side of car – Instant roof clearing!

    • Dag Johansen

      Don’t worry, the Model 3 will NOT have falcon-wings.

      • Ghostdawg

        But the Model Y will have them, improved and smaller by then of course

    • kas

      yehhhh…. falcon wings ugly… don`t use it on Model S or Model 3

    • RexxSee

      “I seriously hate those things.” Blah Blah Blah…
      Were you at the presentation? Did you tried them?
      If not, you have no idea what you’re talking about.

    • Xander66

      “Defendor” You silly man. You ask: “what happens with a foot of snow on them (falcon wing doors). I live in Canada and when I go out to my car and find more than 1” of snow on the roof of my car, I just sweep it off…….. at the same time I’m sweeping the front hood, wind shield, rear window, trunk, side windows, headlights and tail lights (safety issues). A foot of snow just takes a little longer. No big deal. They make sweepers designed to do a good job of this. Anyone who lives in a snow zone has at least one or two in the car. How is it you couldn’t figure this out. Wait……..I get it……..You’re one of those lazy clowns that drives down the road with a foot of snow on his car hoping the wind will blow it off if he drives fast enough putting us all at risk. For shit sake man…..just buy a sweeper.

  • Martin

    Cool, clarification on a number of things. :))
    I would like one, how do you get one without having a lot of money.
    Oh yes, wait for the scale model! πŸ˜‰

    • Marion Meads

      GM’s 200 mile BOLT is coming to Hanlee’s Chevrolet in Davis, California by end of November 2015!!! Yes, this year 2015. BEATING Tesla’s Model 3 arrival by 5 years! Price is $37,500 netting you $27,500 after state rebate and fed tax credits.

      • Brent Jatko

        This will be good for the country, if not for Tesla. They dicked around too much with shiny baubles and foo-foo “halo car” glitter toys and missed the mass market.

        GM has them in a corner unless they (GM) screw it up like they did the Chevrolet Vega in the 1970s.

        • eveee

          Yeah. What’s the chance GM could screw it up.

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        • neroden

          Tesla researched the history of successful *startup* car companies and discovered that *none* of them started in the mass market. They all started with high-profit-margin, high-end cars. No exceptions. Only once they’d managed to pay for all the R&D, factory construction, distribution network, etc., did they go into the mass market.

          Tesla didn’t really have a choice, as a startup company. If they wanted to avoid bankruptcy, this was the business model they had to use.

          If another company produces electric cars which take over the mass market, Elon Musk will cheer. His goal is to get rid of fuel-burning cars.

          • Brent Jatko

            Good ;point that I hadn’t thought of. Thanks.

          • Ivor O’Connor

            Has nothing to do with researching successful startups. It’s just basic economic sense learned on day 1 of economics 101. Like gravity.

        • QKodiak

          Read my post above about how the Bolt cannot and won’t compete with the Model III. Chevy Sonics don’t compete with sports sedans like the BMW 3-series. The Model III will be a tech-filled sports sedan 80% the size of the Model S. The crossover version will be called the Model Y. A Tesla 2-seat hypercar

        • Robert Pollock

          I’d say about half the people I meet around here know real details regarding EV’s. Most think PEV’s are the same thing. A discouraging number of people still have no ideas in their heads regarding energy. In Ontario, Canada, 50 years ago I learned sciences in school, physics, maths, chemistry, no biology but geography and a lot of history. I dropped out after 12 years of public school. My wife, (an American citizen) told me she was in classes in Memphis, TN, in grade 10, where students couldn’t read or write. If you don’t read…..

      • Rich

        Assuming your right about the Nov 2015 delivery, the gap between Nov 2015 and Nov 2017 (Model 3 delivery) isn’t 5 years. This also assumes Tesla cannot pull in their delivery date for the Model 3, which I would Not assume.
        Chevy Bolt production is limited to 30K cars. At a desirable 200 mile range and limited production capability, one could be forgiven in thinking the Chevy Bolt is a compliance car. Cali will easily consume all 30K cars.

        • Martams

          Based in Tesla’s missed deadlines Marion is correct. And i am certain that Musk will send out several teaser ground breaking super baduper modifications of Model 3 to somewhat justify the delays until 2020. Many of you have seen what Musk did that delayed ALL of Tesla’s product releases.

          • Rich

            No argument around the missed deadlines or tactics to stall people. All reports are indicating the Gigafactory is ahead of schedule. The Tesla Model 3 will be announced and pre-orders taken in March 2016. We’ll be able to make a judgement call at that time as to whether the Model 3 is a reasonable mass market BEV or an over engineered mess. This should give a good indicator on a reasonable timeline.

          • Knetter

            The Gigafactory just received it’s occupancy permit on Thursday, and supposedly making LI cells by spring. 30,000 Bolts will be a drop in the hat very shortly.

          • RexxSee

            How can intelligent people assume blindly that what happened for one model of this quick growing disruptive and unusual company will occur the same way in all possible futures. Tesla needed the money of both Models to build the Model 3, but the wild success of the Model S is the main reason for delaying the X. Not the doors. (Two years for a door! Silly!)

            Now they can put all their energies toward the Model 3, THE MAIN GOAL.

      • JP

        No it’s not.

      • Bob_Wallace

        Marion, are you now trying out lying as performance art?

        • Bob_Wallace

          Marion – here’s what I can find online-

          June 29, 2015

          “GM engineers said last week that they’ve pulled ahead their timetable for Bolt production, though they wouldn’t say by how much or give a production target date.

          GM confirmed in February plans to build the Bolt, which it says will go about 200 miles on a single charge and cost around $30,000 after tax breaks. An on-sale date of sometime in 2017 has been widely reported.

          But the car could arrive earlier than that. Two industry analysts who track production plans, and who didn’t want to be identified discussing GM’s schedule, have estimated the Bolt will start production in October 2016. Those forecasts were made even before GM moved up its timeline.

          GM “accelerated things,” Bolt chief engineer Josh Tavel told reporters at a media event last week here. GM is testing more than 50 hand-built prototypes, he said.”

          http://www.autonews.com/article/20150629/OEM05/306299985/chevy-pulls-ahead-timetable-for-bolt-ev

          (Now, were you saying that the dealership might have a prototype on display?)

          • Martams

            time will soon tell before the end of this year!

        • Waiting to be bribed

          The 3 should have no trouble competing with an electric Chevette.

          • Bob_Wallace

            We used to have a guy around here who attempted to be a comic.

            He washed out.

            Are you the next to audition?

          • Shecky Vegas. πŸ˜€ I enjoyed him. Wondered where he went.

      • Gene

        Marion, I hope not to embarrass you, but it is not arriving in 2015, sorry. I would be pleased if it did! Every EV that is built is an endorsement of EV taking over ICE. That’s good for health of consumers and good for the EV industry, Tesla included. With 99% of the cars on the road being ICE, there is plenty of growth for EV’s from all makers. As Elon stated about the coming Bolt, “Good I am pleased, after all, all cars will be EV at some point.”

      • Keanwood

        Do you have a source for that? Wikipieda has production at 2017. It would be awesome if production was end of 2015.

      • Martin

        Well my problem is, I live in BC, Canada, and the selection for EV’s is a bit dismal and incentives are a lot less than the US (that is for the places that have incentives).

      • John Locke

        False. The next-gen Volt (50 miles on a charge and 40 MPG) is currently in the process of shipping to some states. The Bolt is still just a concept car. Production is expected to begin in 2017 although there are some rumors that it could begin as early as October 2016.

      • QKodiak

        Tesla said that we’ll see the first production Model III’s late 2017 with volume deliveries in 2018. I don’t care that the Bolt comes out this year (I highly doubt that it will). Chevy Sonics don’t compete with the BMW 3-series or the Audi A4 and Jaguar XE which will be Tesla Model III competitors. It’s going to be awesome!

        • Bob_Wallace

          Bottom of this page shows the type of cars the Mod3 should be competing against when it comes out. The mid-$30k group.

          http://www.caranddriver.com/jaguar/xe

          • QKodiak

            Yes. It is important to note that similar price does not a competitor make. Some people argue their being electric makes them competition

            I would say only in the minds of the very few that only buy electrics and/or couldn’t care less about performance do they compete. The Bolt is going after Nissan Leaf, Chevy Volt, compliance EV owners, and potential EV citycar owners. The Tesla Model III and Y will be going after the far larger segment of small to midsize sports sedans and SUVs – those who want a “go anywhere, do anything” type vehicle.

      • Charles

        Great. What sort of high speed charger network does Chevy have?

      • Michael B

        Yep, I’m afraid that “MM”‘s “RR” just dropped a few points. πŸ™
        Back these kinds of assertions up with a source, please!
        Oh, and RR = Reliability Rating, LOL.

    • Robert Pollock

      When I signed the lease on my Chevy Spark EV, Jerry Brown sent me $2500 cash. Chevy coughed back the deposit of $2000. (read previous post about that) and Chevy paid the first month’s payment and gave me a Bosch level II charger. The amount I pay to lease the car is slightly more than I used to spend a month on gasoline for my old Tacoma. In 15000 miles there has been no maintenance. Two front tires is all. We don’t even pay for the electricity we use, there are 30 public charging stations in Palm Springs.
      My niece in Toronto pays more per month to use public transport.
      My wife drives my car to work most days, it’s not far. So her’s is kept under a tarpaulin now. We put less than 1000 miles per year on her ICE car saving another few thousand in gasoline and (less) maintenance. And our insurance rates dropped due to the fewer miles put on my wife’s car. We pay $219/month. I’ve since seen the Spark EV advertised for $169/month.

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