Batteries

Published on July 1st, 2016 | by Christopher Arcus

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Kreisel — New Battery Competitor In Home Storage & EVs (In Depth)

July 1st, 2016 by  

Update: As an extra item, note that the company is planning to open a 100 MWh battery factory in Austria in 2017. No Gigafactory (Tesla’s Gigafactory target is 50,000 MWh a year), but not a bad start. 

Update #2: Here’s a slide (screenshot from the video in the comments) showing some of Kreisel’s e-mobility partners to date:

Kreisel Partners

Kreisel is an Austrian battery pack manufacturer that has been making battery packs for electric vehicle applications. The company website describes it this way: “The company was founded by brothers Johann, Markus and Philipp Kreisel in 2014 as a small, independent start-up with solid technical know-how and plenty of passion.”

The Kreisel pack offerings have shown some remarkable volumetric energy densities and specific mass — more about that later. The most recent offering, the Mavero, is aimed at the home storage market, a field of growing interest in Germany, where many homes have solar and self-consumption is a consideration.

The Mavero is described as a revolution in home storage for sustainable homes. Kreisel has interesting perspectives on home storage use. The vision includes renewable storage, grid independence and backup, and enabling EV charging. The Mavero comes in 8, 11, 16, and 22 kWh versions, named Mavero 10, 14, 20, and 28, respectively.

Mavero home battery

Technical Details …  For The Nerds

The smaller units come in 14A versions with 4.8kW ratings, and the larger ones double that. The life expectancy is 20 years and the cycle life is 5000 cycles. The guarantee is 10 years.

These battery systems are high-voltage systems, ranging from 288V to 384V. The temperature range is +5C to 40C. The 8 kWh version starts at €5,590.

Kreisel Mavero

Consumer Design Is A Winner

The Mavero comes in an attractive case that gives some simple external indication of its operation, charging, and discharging. It is slated for last quarter 2016 distribution to partners and first quarter 2017 distribution to customers. Reservations are available now.

Overall, the Mavero 10 is comparable to the Tesla Powerwall — with 8 kWh and 4.8 kW, it has slightly higher energy capacity and higher power (Tesla Powerwall = 6.4 kWh and 3.3 kWh).

The Pricing-For-Value Matchup

At current rates, the Mavero 10 is priced at €5,590, or $6,220 at the current exchange rate, compared to the Powerwall’s $3,000. Importing Powerwall may change the price difference in Europe, and same for the Mavero 10 in the USA.

Kreisel claims 70% higher storage density and a higher 96% efficiency. Kreisel claims improvements in power output due in part to lower resistance connection techniques and better cell matching. They claim their laser attachment process is central to these improvements.

The Mavero seems to be designed to be a higher efficiency, higher power design, with a nominally higher price per kWh, stated as Euro 700/kWh. In Europe, the Tesla Powerwall price from Photovoltaic4all is €5,290, which includes taxes. The Mavero price is €5,590 plus tax (tax = 19%).

Considering the difference in power and energy, the Powerwall energy cost is a bit better, but the Mavero has an edge on power cost, because of its higher output and efficiency. Curiously, the Kreisel Mavero temperature range is less than the Powerwall. Mavero is rated from +5C to 40C, while Powerwall is considerably better, operating from -20C to 50C.

What About Battery Packs For Electric Vehicles?

And now, about those electric vehicle applications…. Kreisel has shown some impressive energy and power density. Here, we find claims of improving a Volkswagen e-Golf range by double, by increasing its battery capacity from 24 kWh to 55.7 kWh with the same volume and weight.

The Volkswagen Kreisel battery packs compare closely to Tesla’s:

Tesla: 99kWh/550kg = 0.1666

Kreisel 55.7kWh/330kg = 0.1687

Virtually identical.

Tesla’s warranty of 8 years and unlimited miles. From a previous article I wrote here on CleanTechnica, degradation = 3% in 30,000 miles, then 4% by 60,000 miles, but then should still remain over 80% after 200,000 miles.

The Kreisel warranty is 400,000 kilometers (~250,000 miles) to 80%.

Pretty even.

But that’s for the Volkswagen pack. Kreisel seems to be working hard at improving the packs. Another interesting application is the electric Porsche Panamera Kreisel modified. Kreisel supplied an 85 kWh battery pack that weighs 510 kilograms, just a bit less than the 85 kWh Tesla pack at 540 kilograms.

The new Kreisel packs are rated at 4.1kg/kWh. If that holds up and includes coolant, those would translate to an 85kWh pack of about 350kg, considerably less than the current Tesla pack (which, again, is 540kg).

Kreisel battery pack

battery-pack_facts_en_260@2x

From Kreisel’s website:

Super-fast charging within 18 minutes for up to 80 % state of charge (SOC) with the battery temperature held constantly between 25 and 29 °C. Kreisel Electric batteries feature a patented casing that ensures each cell is constantly flushed with liquid. This means that combined with a heat pump, the battery can be heated or cooled very efficiently on demand. A decisive advantage in terms of safety, performance and service life. Depending on the application, choose between battery packs with or without liquid thermal management. The installed volume of the battery pack remains the same.

Capacity: 46 kWh
Ampere hours: 133.4 Ah
Nominal voltage: 345.6 V
Cell configuration: 96S 46P
BRLIND LQ module: 46P LQ
Thermal management: liquid circulation

220 kW constant discharge to 20% SOC and 440 kW peak discharge
140 kW constant charging to 80% SOC

The 18 minute charge to 80% SOC would be one of the fastest-charging packs yet. The quoted pack is 46 kWh, but that could be scaled. An 18 minute charge for a 46 kWh battery would require a little over 120 kW charging power. So, an 85 kWh pack would require chargers that don’t exist today to achieve those kinds of charge rates.

Kreisel seems to adopt a slightly different cooling technique than Tesla, with cells flush with coolant, whereas Tesla uses a square metal channel in contact with cells to cool the batteries. That may account for some of the claimed improvement in thermal management.

Conclusion

Kreisel Powerwall

Overall, as you can see, the Kreisel specs and cost match up quite closely with Tesla’s specs and cost. The company does look like a competitive new entrant to the home battery storage and EV battery markets.

All images via KreiselElectric and KreiselEnergy


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About the Author

has studied wind, electric vehicles, and environmental issues. An electrical engineer familiar with power and electronics, he has participated in the Automotive X Prize contest. He is an avid writer, specializing in electric vehicles, batteries, and wind energy.



  • Julian Cox

    This looks like a good base. By the looks of it they have achieved approximately matching performance to the Tesla packs of 2014 at some cost multiple that is at least double the Tesla cost price to arrive at double the sales price in small volumes. It may well be possible to scale this independently of Tesla to provide a second source of better than ICE and Power Utility economics.

    Regards the two innovations mentioned – internal laser welding and cell-case integrated thermal management. I would suspect the laser welding is standard by now but the case-integrated thermal management is potentially interesting all though by no means a breakthrough rather than simply a design choice to achieve the thermal management objective.

    Note also the vs Tesla pack energy density is not a number that can be taken seriously in back to back comparisons. The figure of merit is cell level energy density (including the thermal management system to be precise). What we don’t see here is anything that cannot be confused by the inclusion of vehicle structures in the battery pack in the case of the 544Kg Tesla pack (lateral strength members, firewalls etc) whereas the comparison we are being shown appears to be net of those features. Meaning that to make a car with this pack, those features would need to be added to the final vehicle assembly but not in the case of the Tesla vehicle.

    All good none the less and far better news than lets say, Jaguar trying to build a new engine manufacturing facility in the UK.

  • Robert Pollock

    Two things I read about every day but cannot find in the ‘real’ world are these things;
    Both the Residential storage systems and, the EV battery upgrades. I’m about to turn in my leased Spark that has 17,000 miles on it. The battery was great up until these last few (ultra-hot, Palm Springs) weeks, now it only charges to 66 miles (81 is normal).
    It’s a great car but it’s worthless, until someone drops a decent battery into it, but from where? I thought this was California?

  • scd

    Great discussion going on, thanks for the article Zach! I have taken notice of Kreisel at the Intersolar 2016 and was able to talk to a (junior) technician of them (a german speaker like me …). This chat, your article and the additional information from the comment stream and linked presentation boil down the the following impressions I like to share with you:
    1. They have taken a very close look at Tesla and do things alike, optimising where ever possible. They believe in 18650 cells and the same kind of whiring as Tesla. This sure raises my confidence. It is much different from the car industry standard religion of large cells and low complexity/redundancy, which might be the BS Elon Musk talks about.
    2. They seem to have achieved some serious progress in cell connection through their patented laser welding and their fluid cell temperature control system, which gives their cell packs advantages in volume and power both at fast chaging as at fast discharging.
    3. They are doing projects with prototypes and make small series of products together with industry partners. Not the kind of mass production where we find Tesla today, much more like Tesla 8 or 10 years ago. This allows for agility and for very fast development.
    4. They baffle the Autoindustry with amazing stuff like an E-Golf with 57 kWh AND fast charging AND a weightloss of 9 kg. The Wolfsburg Engineers must pop their eyes out seeing a car like this. I hope they adopt to the idea of making electric cars fun, going far, charging fast!
    5. Building battery packs is where they want to start serial production in the new factory putting out more than a GWh of Battery Packs per year (impressive!).

    After all, I like the firm and I have the impression that they are very able engineers and designers with a strong vision and the balls it takes to baffle the big players. The Movero design and the Panamera really catched my eye!
    I hope they will make it to partner up with some of them big players and to find a market for their superior products that come from the planned production lines.
    Going into production and finding markets for those products are a different story than cool prototypes. They will have to go through several learning curves.
    With auto makers being so much challenged with all this new stuff around electric drives and batteries, they might be an interesting candidate for an acquisition any time …

    • Jenny Sommer

      They have no plans to sell the company.

      “Grundsatzentscheidungen über die Zukunft ihrer Firma hat das Trio auch bereits getroffen: Jeder kann bei ihnen Lizenzen zur Fertigung kaufen, aber niemand den ganzen Laden – egal, ob Tesla anfragt, Google oder Daimler. Die Österreicher sehen ihre Firma eher als Lieferant für Komponenten und für Kompetenzen.”

      • nakedChimp

        Makes them very sympathetic and by mostly licensing their tech to everyone they enable a similar thing for the world as Tesla did by opening up their patents for others to use.. no monopolization.
        And the income those dudes generate will be laughable in comparison to what Apple or some other big incumbent monopolist would try to wring out of the market.
        Wish them all the best.

  • Dan Dietrich

    I would like to make two points. First, I am an owner of a Nissan Leaf, and a 9.3 mw pv system. These articles always seem to be Tesla based, with no reference to the other companies who have produced and sold products far longer. I’d love to see an aftermarket battery for the leaf that could compete with a Nissan version , but even with the large numbers of Leaf’s out there I guess it isn’t worth it.
    Second, as far as power wall type products go, I just don’t see the economic value unless you frequently lose power. For example, I use the grid for storage. I know I sell back at wholesale rates and buy at retail, so I lose there, but adding a battery will cost me 4% minimum at all times of my produced power due to conversion losses and heat. In addition a time of use meter would cost me $10 per month from my utility. Those numbers add up quickly without even taking into account the purchase price of the unit. Assuming an installed cost of $7000, and a 20 year life, the battery costs $350 per year plus $120 for the meter. Most of us with these systems followed the idea of increasing home efficiency first, so our bills are not too high to begin with. Adding about $40 per month just isn’t worth it.

    • eveee

      I agree that there are many places where it doesn’t work. Meter rates and utility charges can affect this a lot. In places like San Diego, the summer time day night differential due to TOU can reach 30c. That’s a lot. Also, in PG and E territory, tier rates jack way up to over 36c once minimum usage is exceeded. Tier rates mean the rate is low up to the first few 100 kwhr per month and after that, they go way up. There are many solar city installations that took advantage of that by selling solar that lowered the tier rate back to 15c. They just size the solar big enough to lower the rate and the bill goes down. That’s why they can offer a lower bill even after paying them 17c/kwhr for solar. Those kinds of differentials can support the use of storage in places with high rates like Hawaii, Germany, and Australia, but not the general US, although this is changing as rates ratchet up, and solar and storage head down.

  • Thanks. We had that press release on hold since it came out, but neglected to work it in here. I just added it at the top, and changed your link to the source since it has more info and a person from the site you linked has repeatedly harassed us in unwarranted ways and more than I’ve ever experienced in 7 years in this profession.

    • Ok. Then I will ignore this site (I linked to) in the future 🙂 Thank you.

      • No worries. They find good stuff and I think work hard. And I try to be very forgiving and open, but just happened so many times in shocking ways that our policy here is to not even go to the site. And … there’s always an original source. 🙂

  • Since most of us here don’t speak German, can you list the clients they name?

    • I know, Zach. But: The power point in the background is in english – if you start after 4:50 minutes you’ll see the slide with all the client logos.

      • Ah, cool, thanks. I was skipping around and didn’t see anything. Thanks!

        And, dang! Those are some notable partners. Here’s a screenshot (also adding as an update at the top of the article):

        • Philip W

          Wow even I didn’t know all of those are customers. But I guess now you know why I was so bullish on an article about them. I realized their potential even without knowing those customers.

          • Yes. Was hearing a lot of excitement about them. But you know what Elon and several others have said about batteries — there is so much BS in this industry. Which is why we waited for Chris to take a close look at them, since he has enough battery experience to do due diligence (with what’s public, at least).

        • Philip W

          Just watched the video, they are even further than I thought. Skoda Yeti and VW Caddy are likely going into small series production next year in cooperation with VW.

          The Mercedes Sprinter will be coming in series production with some unnamed partner in a fully electric version and also a hybrid version.

          They have a battery for airplanes (7kwh and weight of only 40kg). With 2 of those batteries they flew over 400km and set a world record.

          A chinese Taxi is already in series production with their battery.

          The 2 production lines in their new factory will actually be able to produce 1,2GWh together.

          And those are only the projects that they are allowed to disclose. Amazing.

          • Wow, yeah, that is awesome stuff.

            Quickly turning from “”is this vaporware?” to “finally, another awesome competitor!”

        • Jenny Sommer

          There is a new article about Kreisel in “Die Welt” today.

          Their next goal is to built a fun car for themselves….0-100km/h in under 2sec and over 350km/h top speed 🙂
          They might do some more if anybody is interested.

  • Philip W

    I’m missing their new battery factory in the article. Otherwise great work. Thanks for writing this. I’m glad I could help get them some more international attention. They deserve it.

  • Matt

    I hope they are real, but started in 2014 so don’t have much history or sales to tell yet. One bad sign “The Mavero comes in 8, 11, 16, and 22 kWh versions, named Mavero 10, 14, 20, and 28, respectively.” I hope that number shift isn’t part of a marketing plan to confuse people. Why shift each one up 25%? Let me hope that their base unit size is 0.8Kwh and that the number is number of units in the product.

    • Philip W

      They have converted cars that are on the road today, so yes they are real. If the battery can deliver what they promise, we’ll have to wait and see.

  • vensonata .

    Good article, it really addresses the technical details. The Kreisel brothers are at present small scale but they do nice work apparently. Perhaps in the comments, if there are any Europeans who have direct experience of the products, they can give us the inside scoop.
    Also note Christopher’s estimate of Tesla battery at around 80% capacity after 200,000 miles. This is probably accurate, the question is what is the degradation rate after that? Does it level off and go on for hundreds of thousands more miles? Some say yes. Stay tuned.

    • eveee

      Battery life time is always hard to judge. We have some real world experience from the Tesla cars, but we will have to wait on that from Kreisel. IMO, the TMS or thermal management system is pretty good. They can circulate coolant around the cyclindrical cells. That and a lower resistance contact due to the laser weld and a large flat connector might account with less resistance might account for some of the higher claimed charge rates. Don’t know what chemistry differences might play out, but it looks like Telsa is more NCA based, and Kreisel is more NCM. I say “more” advisedly, because these are no longer easily classifiable. Telsas Panasonic cells are starting to blend more NCM features, I recall, and Kreisels NCM cells are described as being a blend adding some aluminum. Also, Teslas cells use silicone in the electrode, a means of increasing capacity. Calendar life is really an unknown. See the Jeff Dahn videos for more on that.
      There are some interesting discussions about cooling in some places. I3 uses freon, not a glycol solution.

      For your app, the home storage Mavero has more power, but less energy per cost. I believe it’s NCM, like the Tesla and sourced from LG. Stay tuned.

      • Thanks for the perspective. Here’s my original article on that Jeff Dahn video:

        http://evobsession.com/li-ion-batteries-die/

        Here’s the video:

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxP0Cu00sZs

      • Eric Lukac-Kuruc

        I guess that you mixed up silicone and silicon; definitely not the same material.

        • eveee

          I am having a bad computer auto spelling day. I am lucky if I can grunt syllables. It’s the triumph of computer stupidity. I really spell much better than that. But the darn thing is pernicious.

  • Kraylin

    Sounds like all good news, except, where is their factory and what is production capacity? I assume they still need to build a substantial factory?…

    • Zorba

      Found a pic of their factory, not sure how accurate it is though

      • lol 😀

        • Carlton546456

          I make close to 6,000-8,000 bucks a month online. So if you are willing to complete simple computer-based work for several hrs /a day at your house and earn solid profit for doing it… This is perfect for you… FAVE.CO/29lfYDj

          ukhjj

    • eveee

      It’s not very big yet compared to LGChem or GIgaFactory, or VW. This is a small startup and they have only begun to scale up. Their new battery factory is capable of 800,000 kwhrs a year. It has about 65k square foot and 70 employees for now.

      http://www.kreiselelectric.com/en/blog/kreisel-electric-builds-factory-upper-austria/

      • Kraylin

        That is a solid start, I hope they do well! Thanks for the info!

        • Michele8512

          I basically get paid about $6k-$8k on monthly basis for freelancing i do from my home. For anyone looking to do easy online work for 2h-5h /a day from your house and make good income for doing it… This is a gig for you… SELF90.COM

          sdgasdg

    • Updated the article. It’s an 800 MWh factory in Austria. Not too shabby, especially for a young startup. I imagine they are looking to ramp up fast with contracts with major OEMs.

      (For context, Tesla Gigafactory is supposed to be 50,000 MWh.)

      • Philip W

        They have actually opened an office in China almost 2 years ago already. So I think that we’ll see them licensing their technology to chinese manufacturers that will produce a lot more than that.
        http://www.kreiselelectric.com/en/blog/new-office-shanghai-china/

      • Jenny Sommer

        I thought you completely missed Kreisel…

        There are some other interesting statements by Markus Kreisel in Austrian articles.
        http://diepresse.com/home/wirtschaft/economist/5034902/So-werden-Elektroautos-endlich-wirtschaftlich

        They have already licensed production and expect to have more cars packing Kreisel packs on the road by 2017 than Tesla (I don’t know if they mean the Chinese market or overall. Or more than Teslas whole production to date on Chinese roads.)
        They are licensing production and selling complete manufacturing lines in China.
        Most major carmakers already got and tested Kreisel batteries and are interested in some sor of colaboration but the Kreisel brothers don’t talk about that.
        (I actually first heard about Kreisel from a Magna contact).
        Manfred Schrödl (head of Technical University Vienna institute for electronic energy systems and power trains) thinks energy density could be increased only by 50% by using a bigger cell form factor.

        Markus Kreisel says that they could soon offer sub 25.000€, 300km range EVs together with the auto industry.

        On the factory. They invested 12mio €. Got the money in cash because they where positive from the start.
        The new buildings will look like the logo from above.
        http://www.elektrojournal.at/elektrojournal/kreisel-electric-baut-fabrik-oberoesterreich-125118

        Mavero means “for real”…

      • Jenny Sommer

        They also say doubling of the 800MWh capacity is possible within one quarter.

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