Sounds a pity they abandoned those development plans Jerry…

All lights have advantages, none should be banned.

People can make up their own minds about the advantages, including any energy savings, and pay more for using ordinary light bulbs if that’s what they want.

Does society need to save energy?

No, there’s plenty, including new renewable forms.

Does society need to save on greenhouse gases?

Yes, on current evidence.

But everyone forgets a basic simple fact:

Light bulbs don’t give out any gases.

Power stations don’t necessarily either.

Power station emissions can of course be dealt with themselves (including by new energy forms)

- bans are unfair on emission-free households

and in the end don’t save that much energy or money or emissions anyway as explained on

http://www.ceolas.net/#li13x onwards

Also:

Imagine if LED lamps are so great:

Then people will want to buy a lot of them.

Again, therfore no need to ban bulbs in that case.

After all, the perverse logic of the light bulb ban is that people don’t want to buy “energy saving” fluorescent lights, so they have to be forced into it: No need to ban an impopular product!

When transistors came, that didn’t mean having to ban radio tubes (valves)….

Wow…this is AWESOME news since there is NO way I would ever endorse CFLS and their nasty mercury!

Thanks Jerry for sharing. Awesome job!

Wow…this is AWESOME news since there is NO way I would ever endorse CFLS and their nasty mercury!

Thanks Jerry for sharing. Awesome job!

like david schuellerman i allso have seizuer like spells with the lousy floresent lights all my life from 1954.

so i hope LEDs can have some red light added so i dont have to live out side for the rest of my life becaues you all want to be more energy eficent and having me floping on the floor like a fish out of water.

It is so unfortunate that even wonderful new technological and environmental advancements are now costing jobs. Is there no way around this??

Got to agree with Rolf. I don’t know what kind of CFL’s many of you are using, but the newest generation of lamps are great. Flicker issues have mostly been resolved in the major brands. There are many different color spectra available at all of your big box stores; I use a bright white, about 6500K for my aquaria setups, and soft whites in household lamps. I attended a training at GE’s lab in Ohio, and during one of the courses the class was asked to identify which lampshade was hiding the CFL. Only about 10% of the people there could tell, and these were engineers, consultants, and lighting experts. Anyone that tells me they can 100% tell the difference in a shaded or ensconced bulb is probably lying.

As for longevity, I still have some bulbs that I used in my college apartment almost 10 years ago. I want them to burn out so I can get new bulbs. Some of them were even used in bathrooms (round, frosted bulbs for vanity lighting and longer squarish Edison-base bulbs for the exhaust fan.) As long as the ballast has circulation you’re good.

I’ve had great experiences with GE, Philips, Sylvania, nVision and Ikea. Between those 5 brands, there’s probably a CFL that fits your needs. They may not be available in your area, but they exist. There are quite a few other brands that consistently rank very high. The New York times did a comprehensive test sometime last year.

Got to agree with Rolf. I don’t know what kind of CFL’s many of you are using, but the newest generation of lamps are great. Flicker issues have mostly been resolved in the major brands. There are many different color spectra available at all of your big box stores; I use a bright white, about 6500K for my aquaria setups, and soft whites in household lamps. I attended a training at GE’s lab in Ohio, and during one of the courses the class was asked to identify which lampshade was hiding the CFL. Only about 10% of the people there could tell, and these were engineers, consultants, and lighting experts. Anyone that tells me they can 100% tell the difference in a shaded or ensconced bulb is probably lying.

As for longevity, I still have some bulbs that I used in my college apartment almost 10 years ago. I want them to burn out so I can get new bulbs. Some of them were even used in bathrooms (round, frosted bulbs for vanity lighting and longer squarish Edison-base bulbs for the exhaust fan.) As long as the ballast has circulation you’re good.

I’ve had great experiences with GE, Philips, Sylvania, nVision and Ikea. Between those 5 brands, there’s probably a CFL that fits your needs. They may not be available in your area, but they exist. There are quite a few other brands that consistently rank very high. The New York times did a comprehensive test sometime last year.

Think CFL lasts longer and safer??? Then look at following links…

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=190185

http://www.execulink.com/~impact/fluorescent_lights.htm

Philips and GE only “realised” the incandescent light bulb was doomed after the Ban The Bulb campaign was launched in 2005, allowed to publish an article on the BBC News website in Feb 2006 (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4667354.stm) and picked up by politicians in California and Australia in 2007.

I have no clue to what many of you are talking about with the so-called shortcomings of CFLs. Do you buy the cheapest or oldest models?

Avoid Walmart’s home brand “Great Value”. Avoid discount or bargain no-name CFLs, especially at dollar store or discount stores. I like Sylvania (at Lowes) for some things and Feit Electric from Costco for others.

Complaint:

1. Life of bulb. Doesn’t stand up to claims.

Counterpoint: This used to be a fact much more than now. Now, it’s only with the cheap or no name brands. Sometimes even with a certain model of bulb from a trusted manufacturer. I’ll say in the last 8 years, this improved a lot. My house is nearly entirely CFL, and there are frequently-used rooms without replacements needed for the last 5 years… and some that didn’t last quite as long. Whatever the case, with standard electric rates, you recoup your investment within 12 months of normal use.

2. Cold climates – Outdoors, can’t start.

Counterpoint: I have 10+ lights outdoors, in enclosed light posts, from dusk to dawn settings. They are the most reliable I have, not needing replacement the last 3-4 years (I would suppose from 1 a day starts with long running times). My winters don’t get as cold as some, but they had no problems starting on 0F days.

3. Can’t use them in ‘enclosed spaces’ or enclosed ceiling lights.

Counterpoint: Baloney. I have them in enclosed sconces indoor and outdoor, in enclosed ceiling lights in the PAR38 form, etc. without problems for years now.

4. Color

Counterpoint: They have warm/cool_white/daylight colors now. I personally don’t notice any difference from incandescent. Perhaps a psychological effect?

5. Start Time

Counterpoint: True in some cases. Some are instant-on, with about 60-75% brightness within 1 second start up, and some ramp up. Others are less bright at beginning. Full brightness in all cases I observed within 30 to 90 seconds at worst. I like this because it gives my eyes time to adjust.

6. Flicker

Counterpoint: Have not observed this except in early models or defective models (others of same type don’t flicker). Maybe it’s just me.

7. Lumens – Not as bright.

Counterpoint: False afaik. I think some are even brighter than incandescent counterpoints. Plus, because of energy savings, I sometimes put in brighter than equivalant lights in a previously dim area and still shave off almost 1/3 of the previous electric use (as opposed to the regular 1/4) on that lighting.

8. Mercury

Counterpoint: In the US, your electricity is most likely coal. Burning coal releases mercury as well in trace amounts. The energy you save in incandescent vs CFL translates to more coal kept from the atmosphere than used in the CFL bulb. The mercury hoopla is really overblown in this case. I think Home Depot takes you bulbs for recycling IIRC.

I forget the other points, but use what works for you. I like CFLs. Incandescents are still in my oven and fridge because CFLs will not work there because of heat and humidity, respectively.

I use CFLs solely because they save me money. When leds mature, I might use them, but right now they aren’t there yet in terms of brightness except for flashlights.

I have no clue to what many of you are talking about with the so-called shortcomings of CFLs. Do you buy the cheapest or oldest models?

Avoid Walmart’s home brand “Great Value”. Avoid discount or bargain no-name CFLs, especially at dollar store or discount stores. I like Sylvania (at Lowes) for some things and Feit Electric from Costco for others.

Complaint:

1. Life of bulb. Doesn’t stand up to claims.

Counterpoint: This used to be a fact much more than now. Now, it’s only with the cheap or no name brands. Sometimes even with a certain model of bulb from a trusted manufacturer. I’ll say in the last 8 years, this improved a lot. My house is nearly entirely CFL, and there are frequently-used rooms without replacements needed for the last 5 years… and some that didn’t last quite as long. Whatever the case, with standard electric rates, you recoup your investment within 12 months of normal use.

2. Cold climates – Outdoors, can’t start.

Counterpoint: I have 10+ lights outdoors, in enclosed light posts, from dusk to dawn settings. They are the most reliable I have, not needing replacement the last 3-4 years (I would suppose from 1 a day starts with long running times). My winters don’t get as cold as some, but they had no problems starting on 0F days.

3. Can’t use them in ‘enclosed spaces’ or enclosed ceiling lights.

Counterpoint: Baloney. I have them in enclosed sconces indoor and outdoor, in enclosed ceiling lights in the PAR38 form, etc. without problems for years now.

4. Color

Counterpoint: They have warm/cool_white/daylight colors now. I personally don’t notice any difference from incandescent. Perhaps a psychological effect?

5. Start Time

Counterpoint: True in some cases. Some are instant-on, with about 60-75% brightness within 1 second start up, and some ramp up. Others are less bright at beginning. Full brightness in all cases I observed within 30 to 90 seconds at worst. I like this because it gives my eyes time to adjust.

6. Flicker

Counterpoint: Have not observed this except in early models or defective models (others of same type don’t flicker). Maybe it’s just me.

7. Lumens – Not as bright.

Counterpoint: False afaik. I think some are even brighter than incandescent counterpoints. Plus, because of energy savings, I sometimes put in brighter than equivalant lights in a previously dim area and still shave off almost 1/3 of the previous electric use (as opposed to the regular 1/4) on that lighting.

8. Mercury

Counterpoint: In the US, your electricity is most likely coal. Burning coal releases mercury as well in trace amounts. The energy you save in incandescent vs CFL translates to more coal kept from the atmosphere than used in the CFL bulb. The mercury hoopla is really overblown in this case. I think Home Depot takes you bulbs for recycling IIRC.

I forget the other points, but use what works for you. I like CFLs. Incandescents are still in my oven and fridge because CFLs will not work there because of heat and humidity, respectively.

I use CFLs solely because they save me money. When leds mature, I might use them, but right now they aren’t there yet in terms of brightness except for flashlights.

this is unfortunate and short-sited.

the ban should be on the old designs and allow for the new high efficiency ones to be used at least for some time frame for a few reasons:

GE and others invested in improving the efficiency and they should be reworded for this not punished.

companies that do the right thing should be rewarded for their investments in improving old technologies.

The disruption of the local economy when these people in these plants are let go will be horrible for them. I bet most people in these plants have been there forever and are older and just will not be able to retool for other jobs like their younger counterparts.

allow these plants to upgrade to the high efficiency incandesents and buy some time for transition of people and technology improvement to other light sources.

Look how long it took GE to come out with the higher efficiency incandesents.

LED’s may not be ready for prime time when this ban takes effect and their cost effectiveness in every application has not been proven as of yet.

LED’s are coming but are not here yet so this is premature to kill the incandesent at least the new high efficiency version.

Some apps a floresent are not good for like outdoors and short time on applications. also longevity issues with both of the above reasons.

Also smart motion technologies that turn on and off make incandesents more cost efficient than floresents due to their ability to be dimmed and turned on and off more times and their ability to get bright compared to floresents.

Don’t get me wrong i love the floresent bulb screw in replacments I have switched to them 90%.

But hallway lighting that gets turned on and off the incandesent still wins. add smart motion they get better yet.

uh… that’s not an led bulb

CFLs are no good outside in Northern climes. They burn out rapidly when trying to start in the winter, and I’ve actually had one that was close to starting a fire in my house – the base was blackend and the tube was just starting to melt. As a concerned consumer, I wrote the manufacturer about it and they were totally unconcerned, claiming there was no way for it to start a fire. I have the proof. There is also the diposal problem, lack of equivalent lumens, cost, and durability issues. I don’t see that they last much longer than standard incandescent bulbs. I now have bought 300 bulbs, so I’m set for the rest of my life with real light bulbs. taz

CFLs are no good outside in Northern climes. They burn out rapidly when trying to start in the winter, and I’ve actually had one that was close to starting a fire in my house – the base was blackend and the tube was just starting to melt. As a concerned consumer, I wrote the manufacturer about it and they were totally unconcerned, claiming there was no way for it to start a fire. I have the proof. There is also the diposal problem, lack of equivalent lumens, cost, and durability issues. I don’t see that they last much longer than standard incandescent bulbs. I now have bought 300 bulbs, so I’m set for the rest of my life with real light bulbs. taz

If you work in an office cubicle under flourescents, you’ll hear lots of people talk about the headache-inducing flicker. The new CFL’s will also burn a “welder’s” spot onto your eye if you look directly at many of them. The intensity of the light is the problem. Incandescents are softer more natural light. All of this is knee-jerk pinheads thinking they have the right to force and mandate what people decide is best.

“…some U.S. states planning to ban the bulb…” Mr. Stone, it would be nice if you would research your subject before posting an article. The Federal Government of the United States has already passed a ban on incandescent bulbs, to take effect in 2012. No individual states are “planning” to do something that has already been done.

“…some U.S. states planning to ban the bulb…” Mr. Stone, it would be nice if you would research your subject before posting an article. The Federal Government of the United States has already passed a ban on incandescent bulbs, to take effect in 2012. No individual states are “planning” to do something that has already been done.

What about low voltage Halogens? (the kind moujnted in ceiling-mounted can lights) Wheredo they fit on the efficiency spectrum?

Alot of people here are claiming that the new bulbs are way better than the old ones but there are still many really bad CFLs that flood the market are are hard to avoid so this process can be trial and error. One should research the bulbs they wish to buy before installing them since product quality varies considerably. The ones you get very cheap at home depot are most likely to be bad as are almost all dimmable bulbs that I’ve come across. GE and Philips are generally good but vary from bulb to bulb. Sylvania is also decent but then again I haven’t tried many of their bulbs and they may very. nVision bulbs from Home depot are total garbage. They take a good 15-20 seconds to warm up and do flicker from time to time. If the balast that powers the bulb is crap so will the quality of your light. I guess you get what you pay for. Dimmable bulbs in my experience have been a complete disappointment. Of five Sylvania BR30 15W-2700K bulbs purchased last year 2 have already died. If your dimmer is less than 40% dimmed the bulbs will not turn on and flicker on and off completely at anything less than 50%. They are slow to warm up and are very dim initially. At full brightness they are fine after a minute or so but then what’s the point of having a dimmer. I also have installed LEDs in my home and I have to say I have been very impressed. They turn on instantly to full brightness and can be purchased with warm light settings ( www. earthLED.com ).The problem with these is that they cost big $$$ about $50 or more for each bulb. I know you can get cheaper ones but like CFL’s quality varies alot and most of the chinese made ones are garbage and will likely fail prematurely. Getting GE behind this effort will be great if it reduces cost and brings reliability.

The first CFL’s we bought were cold, industrial light. We then got the warm ones. I don’t really notice a difference. When I got them, they said they would last 5 years. Since we don’t have recycling or anyway to dispose of toxic waste in our community, I thought I’d be OK because surely by then we’d have recycling. In less than 6 months, 3 of my bulbs have blown out. Now what do I do with them? Ideas?

The first CFL’s we bought were cold, industrial light. We then got the warm ones. I don’t really notice a difference. When I got them, they said they would last 5 years. Since we don’t have recycling or anyway to dispose of toxic waste in our community, I thought I’d be OK because surely by then we’d have recycling. In less than 6 months, 3 of my bulbs have blown out. Now what do I do with them? Ideas?

I use CFLs with no complaints – where I am able to. But we repeatedly run into the limits James noted on where you can use them. We’re stuck with incandescent lights in some places where CFLs would make much better sense, such as in our front porch light and various closet lights. I’m looking forward to the advent of competitive, usable LED general lighting sources. Bravo to GE for putting serious resources into developing LED and OLED technology.

Those of you who can tell the difference in color, flicker, or whatever else must be talking about the stone age CFLs since the new ones are indistinguishable. Maybe it’s just a testament to how long the bulbs last. Anyways, you’ll all saved $50/bulb in energy costs so maybe you can afford to spend $4/bulb to get the new kind. I hope all aren’t going back to incandescents without trying the new CFLs…

Interesting, this is a huge step forward from GE. I’m looking forward to this helping bring the price of consumer LED devices down.

Interesting, this is a huge step forward from GE. I’m looking forward to this helping bring the price of consumer LED devices down.

To those who say the new “warm” CFL bulbs look exactly the same as incandescents, you people are just insane or legally blind.

For one thing- CFLs output their light in one specific tiny frequency of light, no matter what they consider “warm” to be. Incandescents emit light over a much larger range of frequencies.

There was a study last week that showed 40 percent of people could not tell the difference between HDTV and just plain digital TV. Which is not surprising since 75 percent of the population has vision so crappy that they have to wear contacts or eyeglasses.

Oh and dont forget that CFLs cannot be used in ceiling can lights, nor in enclosed spaces, nor in situations where moisture and high humidity may occur.

Yep,

If you’re still complaining about the quality of CFL lighting you need to visit Home Depot and check out the new varieties. They now have “soft white” and all the other various “shades” of lighting that incandescent bulbs come in. We’ve been using them in our house an no one can tell the difference.

That said, LEDs are the future.

Personally, I think this is something LONG over due!

jess

http://www.anonymize.us.tc

re: Bob

I wasn’t going to say anything but yes, yes I do have superhuman vision. It matches my cape and tights quite nicely.

Sure, wearing my undies on the outside is a little strange but if Batman can do it, so can I!

Actually, there is a very noticeable difference between CFLs and traditional bulbs. The light is extremely sterile, where incandescents are warm. I have yet to meet someone who cannot distinguish between the two.

There is also a flicker. I can see it. No supervision required – though the tights are still fun to wear!

re: Bob

I wasn’t going to say anything but yes, yes I do have superhuman vision. It matches my cape and tights quite nicely.

Sure, wearing my undies on the outside is a little strange but if Batman can do it, so can I!

Actually, there is a very noticeable difference between CFLs and traditional bulbs. The light is extremely sterile, where incandescents are warm. I have yet to meet someone who cannot distinguish between the two.

There is also a flicker. I can see it. No supervision required – though the tights are still fun to wear!

I don’t think the other commenters are getting the full meaning of the story. GE was working on an incandescent bulb that was just as efficient as a CFL. The incandescent has been vilified as a power waster so places were passing laws to ban them. Well, what if there were an incandescent bulb that was more efficient than a CFL, should it be banned too? That is why the ban laws were not a good idea; they should have just required bulbs to be above a certain power efficiency number, not blindly ban any particular type of bulb. Now, because of the potential for incancesdents being banned, GE will stop work on the high-efficiency incandescent bulb. Too bad, maybe it would have been a good alternative for those that like the warm light from them.

There have been “warm-toned” CFL lamps for years now… No need to get those cold-white lamps no one appreciates.

Leds go even further, as you can potentially have any color you want.

@Chris: You got the wrong ones…they have ones now that mimic the normal look and color of the old style light bulbs. And they do not flicker, at least for me. The only thing you should notice is that there is a 1 – 2 second lag after you turn the light switch before the light actually comes on. Oh, and it’ll last longer.

@Chris: You got the wrong ones…they have ones now that mimic the normal look and color of the old style light bulbs. And they do not flicker, at least for me. The only thing you should notice is that there is a 1 – 2 second lag after you turn the light switch before the light actually comes on. Oh, and it’ll last longer.

This is a fantastic move by GE! These bulbs are more energy efficient than the CFLs and WAY more efficient than incandescent bulbs. Remember, over 30% of energy use in the USA goes to generating light!

Also, as Chris said, those CFLs are absolutely horrible for your eyes and will lead to so many adverse health effects I can’t even imagine. LEDs can put out enough light to keep your eyes healthy AND you electric bill down.

If you can see a fluorescent bulb flickering, you have superhuman vision. Considering that humans can’t even detect the 24 pulses per second of a movie reel, I find it strange that so many claim to be able to detect the 10,000+ per second pulses of an electronic fluorescent light. The “sterile” color actually duplicates the 2700K color of incandescents rather well. Unless you claim as part of your superhuman vision the ability to detect slight differences in emission spectra, then you have no legs to stand on.

If you can see a fluorescent bulb flickering, you have superhuman vision. Considering that humans can’t even detect the 24 pulses per second of a movie reel, I find it strange that so many claim to be able to detect the 10,000+ per second pulses of an electronic fluorescent light. The “sterile” color actually duplicates the 2700K color of incandescents rather well. Unless you claim as part of your superhuman vision the ability to detect slight differences in emission spectra, then you have no legs to stand on.

If you ever toured GE’s Monterrey Mexico plant where they make incandescent light bulbs, you would understand why they are on their way out as a technology…!!!

I’m really sick of CFL’s ! Replaced the globes in my house with them, and now they have “sterile” light, they flicker, and several of them have burnt out. I’m going back to normal globes.

This represents a pretty dramatic shift in technology, and indicates that corporate America is moving more rapidly toward greener solutions.