Ford Has No Plans To Join Electric Car Range Race
Originally published on Gas2.
The future of the electric car is a matter of much conjecture. Last week at the SAE World Convention in Detroit, Kevin Layden, director of electrification programs and engineering for Ford, told the press his company has no plans to join the electric car range race. Instead, it will introduce a new Focus Electric with 100 miles of range this fall. The Focus Electric currently has 76 miles of range.
“I think right now with the launch of the Focus Electric at 100 miles, it is going to satisfy a big chunk of the population,” said Layden. “It’s going to be really affordable and a step up from where we are now.” Less range means the car can use a battery pack that is smaller, lighter, and less costly.
Last week, a survey by National Renewable Energy Laboratory was released that says most people thinking about the purchase of an electric car consider range and price the two most important factors. Most said they would like a car with 300 miles of range that costs less than $30,000. No such car exists at present, of course. More range costs more money. A lower purchase price means less range. There is no way to reconcile those two competing factors.
This is a remarkable statement coming just a few weeks after the stupendously successful launch of the Tesla Model 3. Tesla now has more than 400,000 reservations for its new car and that number continues to rise. Chevrolet says its Bolt will have “at least” 200 miles of range and will be in showrooms before the end of this year.
During the SAE conference, several speakers said a range of at least 200 miles is needed to alleviate consumers’ range anxiety about battery-powered cars. From a driver’s perspective, maximum possible range is not the issue. What matters is how far they can go and still have a comfortable reserve so they don’t have to worry about being stopped on the side of the road with a depleted battery.
In general, drivers only plan to make use of a about 2/3 of a battery’s maximum capacity, whatever it may be. If a car has 100 miles range, the driver starts worrying about range at about 65 miles or so. If a car has 300 miles if range, anxiety levels rise at around the 200 mile mark. It’s just human nature. There are lots of people driving conventional cars who start thinking about getting gas when the gas gauge gets below half. Very few drive around with less than a quarter of a tank of gas.
Last December, Ford said it would spend $4.5 billion to rejuvenate its electrified vehicle lineup. If its plans for the Focus Electric are an indication of how it looks at the market for electric cars, it will be content to be the bargain basement brand. That may be good for moving a lot of product but not necessarily good for generating a lot of revenue.
Ford, like FiatChrysler, does not seem to be all in on the electric car future the way Tesla Motors is. Which strategy makes the best business case won’t be known for 5 to 10 years. But Ford seems to be positioning itself to get left behind as the market transitions to the electric car era.
Source: Automotive News
Reprinted with permission.
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This clearly shows shareholders how far behind their battery programs are by comparison.
If you own this stock, pay attention.
If your company doesn’t have advanced competitive battery tech soon, you won’t have a company.
That depends on whether they can easily buy it or not.
I don’t think car companies will be batter companies. Nissan tried that and it didn’t work for them. Tesla isn’t a battery company, just partnered up with a battery company.
Tesla’s move was, I think, necessary to kickstart large scale battery production. Going forward there’s no reason why standalone battery companies (LG Chem, etc.) couldn’t contract and sell battery packs for different car manufacturers. GM is pretty much getting batteries and all the other electric parts for their Bolt from LG. Ford could do the same.
From a car manufacturer standpoint it’s probably best to not be in the battery manufacturing business. That gives you the freedom to buy from whatever battery manufacturer can provide the best/least expensive battery.
Tesla seems to be quite involved in the battery production — playing with chemistry, closely watching battery developments around the world, hiring Dr Dahn!, producing the pack (from Panasonic’s cells). Think that kind of added-value approach is key… if done well.
If the knowledge about an ICE is the core of a car company NOW then the battery will be a big part of the core competency of a car company in the near FUTURE.
The other bits are sensors/electronics/software for autonomous driving and then how you get all this neatly packaged up in a chassis for people.
Or asked the other way around.. how long do think it will take for traction batteries in the 100kWh range to become a commodity?
Interesting that you mention that, this applies to other industries too. Smart move by Dyson buying Sakti3
Maybe they’re working hard on relationships with folks like Faraday Future.
The cabin design, assembly, and distribution are huge competitive advantage. All they really lose is engine manufacturing.
There may be a place for the Ford Focus, if the sale price will be around $ 20.000 or so, before incentives/rebates.
Other wise people will buy a model 3.
I don’t see any problem with this tactic unless autonomous driving happens. Autonomous Uber would be a lot cheaper and maybe more convenient than owning a car for a lot of people.
$25,000, without subsidy, makes the cost of owning/driving during a 72 month loan period equal to a $20,000 car.
I think we need to talk more about out of pocket costs during the payoff period. Fuel/oil change cost avoidance frees up a lot of money that can equalize monthly loan payments.
Good thought. Insurance savings or not? Maybe an EV owner could pipe in. Lou Gage
Insurance savings ??? How’s this for ridiculous… After test driving the Model S here in Melbourne Australia, I contacted several companies to inquire about insuring the beast… One has just sent me a letter (a year after my enquiry) letting me know the RENEWAL on my Model S will be AU$1988 !!! This compares to the $650 on my new MB C class (cost $64k – half that of the Model S). Interesting comparison. YMMV. I found the ‘renewal’ amusing seeing how as I never bought the S in the first place, it was merely an enquiry on the insurance cost.
RIP
Ford Motor Company
1903 – 2016
Seriously though, the only thing giving traditional automakers a chance to still react in time is Tesla’s inability to ramp up fast enough (both production and design of new models) to meet pent up demand for their compelling EVs.
Correct. There’s a very wide window for getting into serious EV production. A wide window created by shortage of battery production.
Companies that wait longer may lose market share in the long run as people tend to be brand loyal. Those who purchase a Tesla (or other EV) and are happy with it are not as likely to look at what Ford or other ‘late to market’ companies start selling later.
Battery production is ramping up like crazy in expectation of the EV explosion. BYD for example is more than tripling its capacity in the next 2 years. That’s insane. LG and Mercedes are also dumping tons of cash into battery production.
Mercedes (Daimler?) is getting into battery manufacturing? Under what name and at what scale?
Adding to that. Panasonic/Tesla is aiming for 500,000 battery packs per year by 2020, LG Chem is aiming for 450,000. Let’s say BYD triples to 1.5 million to 2 million (I don’t know what they are producing now. 300,000?)
We’d then be at 2.5 to 3 million per year. And a global car annual production of 90 million. We need about 180 Gigafactories before all cars could be EVs.
A lot of ICEVs will be sold over the next decade simply because there won’t be enough batteries for EVs.
0 to 543 million in 2 months. The me 2 line is forming right behind the Tesla Model 3, LOL. Right on cue.
http://fortune.com/2016/03/01/daimler-new-battery-factory/
Two months earlier.
http://www.autonews.com/article/20160225/COPY01/302269992/daimler-declines-to-invest-in-battery-cell-production
Or maybe that’s MBs diesel gate woes surfacing.
My guess, that’s not very big. A token.
Wasn’t the CEO of Audi who said that his company would never build an electric car and then they released a PHEV prototype a few months later?
That was DeNysschen. He’s head of Cadillac these days, with a stint at Infiniti between Audi and now.
Fellow can’t hold a job, apparently.
That plant is only for pack assembly, no cells will be made there. Seems expensive for what it is.
Daimler under Deutsche Accumotive:
““To get closer to fully electric driving, we keep investing big in the key component of emission-free vehicles: powerful batteries,” said Dr. Dieter Zetsche, Daimler’s chairman and head of Mercedes-Benz cars, in a release.”
http://fortune.com/2016/03/01/daimler-new-battery-factory/
You must have been on vacation: http://cleantechnica.com/2016/03/06/daimler-investing-e500-million-into-new-lithium-ion-battery-factory-in-germany/
This is only to build packs. Daimler shuttered LiTec their battery cell subsidiary and will be buying cells from LGChem for the next generation Smart ED. Daimler IS NOT in the battery business in the way Tesla or Nissan are, not even close. That said, the LiTec battery cells and daimler pack in my Smart ED hasn’t lost any capacity in 2.5 years, so they did get something right…
There are doing it in house from what I have heard.
Disclaimer I have 2 MB ICE machines (at present).
haha, another great one. 😀 you guys are getting funny 😀
Unfortunately for them, they are too stupid and sluggish to respond quickly. Look at VW. There was an internal resistance to EVs. Tesla can give away the patents and still have no competition because of the innate backwardness and cussed intransigence of car cos. They are just too comfortable doing the same old thing. Now they are dinosaurs.
I realize this is an old post, but gotta say Ford just announced record sales, Mostly due to its new aluminum body F150 truck, so RIP is premature.
What I want to see, is them put an electric power train on a pickup truck.
Just say’n, people obviously want a pickup, give them an electric option.
The Ford Focus EV even with just 76 miles range is fine with me. The problem I have with it is just that it’s TOO BIG. What I want is a Ford Fiesta EV, for under $20,000. Range under 100 miles is fine.
That’s interesting. I always felt that way, 2, but new EVs will be introduced from the top down. The iMieV from Mitsubishi is your ideal EV. Can get them at a discount. Sales are low. That battery is Li titanate if memory serves. That will go a long ways.
Interesting you should say that. Contact Mazda. They’ve had Mazda 2 (essentially the Ford Fiesta) electric prototypes running around Japan for years.
A used i-MiEV can be had for a song.
…and I have no plans to consider Ford for my next vehicle. Funny how that works…
And that’s after having owned 4 Escorts, a Tempo and a Sable over the years…
I’m the same re VW Group vehicles. Won’t be buying one again any time soon if ever.
I felt that way after several rotor replacements in 96k miles, frequent required maintenance for valve adjustment and brake adjustment, a front door with metal so soft and thin it dented when I closed it on my shoe, orange peel paint, and finally, a failed fuel injection system that burned up the car, which I narrowly escaped while driving on my 78 Rabbit.
When the firemen arrived, they said I should sue VW, since they knew there was a class action lawsuit against them for so many engine fires. At the time, they recently switched to high pressure fuel injection. When that failed, they went to low pressure for a while.
I had an intermittent stall problem tharptthat I traced to a low voltage integrated circuit that had a connennected wire rubbing on the high voltage ignition wire. It only took 40V of the high voltage leaking across to kill the IC. The IC measured rpm and told the gas pump how much to run for the closed loop hp fuel injection. When the car started, the pump always ran, because that circuit bypassed at startup. When the fuel pressure died, you stalled. Then you had to wait a while to make the car think you parked. Sometimes it only worked if you started the car, but didn’t turn it off. A pain. I figured it out, replaced the 50 dollar part, and separated the hv wires from the low voltage.
Then I got an appointment at the dealership, because there was a recall for it. I naively went. When I went to the dealership, there were cars in double lines overflowing into and down the street. When the dealership realized the police might take a dim view, they scrambled to get every single employee out writing orders and filling their internal lots with customer car drop offs for service. So I am in line and I see a bunch of other cars idling despite waiting a half hour. So I asked a few what their problem was. All..all..dozens of them, same as mine. No 5hit.
I explained what was wrong with it and how I fixed it to the service guy. He said the factory had a bulletin. They put the offending wires back and did something else meaningless. I pulled the wires back the way I fixed it and never had a problem again after I left. After it burned up, I never bought another VW again. I could tell you more about how the salesmen put me on balloon payments when I purchased, but that’s enough.
lol. best response yet 😀
EV range question. How accurate are ranges with EVs and how predictable under different conditions are they? With my ICE car I usually let the tank drain to the point when the warning light comes on before filling the tank as I’m confident the 7 litre reserve is enough to get me to a filling station.
When I get my Model 3 🙂 I’ll have to build up experience with that.
With your ICEV once the gas light comes on you need to consider whether you are driving uphill, downhill or on flat ground. How fast you’re driving. And how far to the next gas station.
It’s the same for EVs.
Admittedly I do ease off on the throttle when the light comes on.
There are some posts at the Tesla and Nissan blogs. The range estimates are decent, but they can fool you with instantaneous estimates based on what your path is doing right now. You go uphill, it says range remaining low. Downhill it seats range is high. You get see sawed going up and down the hill.
I wonder if (no, when) range remaining estimations will be based on route ahead and driver’s habits.
Unfortunately, in a Nissan Leaf, it is based on drivers latest habits. This sounds great on the surface but it is not where you get bit or have anxiety. I nearly always drive pretty close to where I live at residential speeds. The estimates are really accurate…of course unless I leave my car unplugged for 2 weeks it doesn’t matter.
The real problem is using my normal driving habits totally mess things up when I decide to get on the highway. Watching your range drop 5 miles in 1 mile in the middle of winter and you start to freak out. It will dynamically adjust over some time but it is scary as hell.
So if I could type in I was on the highway then yeah that would probably help it adjust quicker but as it is it is scary.
The car’s GPS and other data streams should do that automatically. We just have to wait for some more lines to be coded. (Outside temps are already available.)
Yes, wasn’t even fun experiencing that drop in mild weather and **plenty** of range when getting on the highway with the LEAF. Was basically my first time driving the car without the owner, which added to the “oh my!” feeling. But felt much more “used to it” or calm on the return… when the same thing happened. That said, if the range was cutting it close, I imagine it would not have been a chill drive.
The car driving itself will take care of that within a couple of years.. something less one doesn’t have to worry about anymore 🙂
I think Tesla does it. But they still offer instantaneous because driver conditions change.
“Rather than trying to calculate that in your head, the car is always doing that calculation based on the consumption rate of your driving, and here’s how to display it. On the Energy screen, see where it shows the line graph of your watt hours per mile for the past 5, 15, or 30 miles? On the right side of that graph is a number showing projected miles remaining. Those are not the standardized rated miles, those are real actual miles, based on how you are actually driving at the time, based on that 5, 15, or 30 mile average. So if you set it for the 5 mile average and go about 5 miles at a certain speed, so it has some energy data, it will show you how many miles you have left at that consumption rate. Try it at a different speed, and it will show the new calculation.”
He also says use Evtripplanner.com
https://forums.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/how-do-you-determine-range-different-speeds
The range estimates in EVs seem to fluctuate more than gas-powered vehicles because there is less absolute range. The amount of fluctuation in a 200+ mile Tesla will be far less on a percentage basis than a 65 mile i-MiEV.
Thanks for the insights. I haven’t paid attention to this stuff before now but have to prepare now that the Model 3 is reserved.
You are unlikely to need to pay attention.
Imagine gremlins took your car to the gas station every night and filled it up. How often would you worry about the gauge or think about filling up?
Only on trips, right?
That’s right. In winter I plug my LEAF in every night and have about 90 miles range each morning so you end up not even thinking about range.
😀
And yeah, with the Model 3, I think you’ll find yourself not paying attention after the initial intro period. But curious to hear about your experience, and will certainly share mine! (Though, mine is likely much more boring since I don’t have a real commute.)
We have a different issue here in Australia. The petrol/gas producers have a fluctuating (approx 2 week) cycle of wholesale pricing. At present prices are 98c/liter, but 2 weeks ago they were $1.25/liter (multiply x 4 for US gallons). Add 30% for currency variance. What we do here (if possible) is to only buy petrol at the bottom of the pricing cycle. Those driving long distance don’t have the same opportunity.
My understanding is that, unless you are familiar with the route and car, you don’t want to venture below 20%. Borrowing a LEAF this past weekend for 3 days, it was even a bit shocking to me how fast highway driving ate into the range. I never really let the car go beyond ~50% charge, but didn’t have any problem with that. Getting used to the car over a longer period, I imagine my safety zone would be down to 20%. But the thing is, the car is parked so much, that as long as you have somewhere to plug in when parked and don’t drive very long distances, it shouldn’t be a problem.
**Of course**, YMMV (your mileage may vary).
Btw, I should add that different cars/systems use different approaches to range estimates. The Model S has even changed how it does so over time. In the LEAF, if I put it in ECO mode, I gained 9 km immediately. Switch it to non-ECO mode, and it immediately jumped again.
Getting off of the highway at one point, I had (iirc) 89 km of range. After a bit of slower driving to and around the parking lot, I was up to 93 km.
Later, getting off of the highway, I was at 99 km, and by the time I got home (several km from there), I was at 103 km.
Have to get used to it, for sure….
I reset the range clock before jumping out of the car at the fuel station. I refuel when the light comes on and a bit after.. reserve is ~100km when light comes up
If I got a longer trip planned than that I refuel early to get the max range into the tank (~600km).
PS: I get range anxiety when I hit 550km and still got like 30-50km to a fuel station.
PPS: From experience even on extreme occasions I still had like 2-3 liters in the tank (~25km).
Ford translation – we have no idea how we are going to keep up with Tesla Model 3, GM Bolt, or even Nissan Leaf. All we have is this converted ICE compliance car, so we meanwhile have to sell it and pretend like we are competive by saying so in ads. That’s all we got. Our engineers keep telling us we are crazy, go buy some Panasonic batteries.
LOL.
LOL 😀
How do we go from 13 new Ford EV nameplates by 2020 announced in December
http://cleantechnica.com/2015/12/11/ford-stirs-ev-pot-4-5-billion-new-evs-batteries-fast-charging/
to this? No intention to compete with a long range EV. So I guess we can expect a bunch of plug in compliance cars with range so low only the uninformed will pay a big premium for it allowing Ford to meet regulatory requirements… shame.
It may be that car companies did not understand/accept what Tesla was about to do to battery prices and decided that PHEVs were what they should bring to market before moving on to EVs.
It takes a few years to do the R&D and tooling. Most cars are probably stale dated when released. The newest possibilities have not been included in a 3 to 5 year old design.
“So I guess we can expect a bunch of plug in compliance cars with range so low only the uninformed will pay a big premium for it allowing Ford to meet regulatory requirements… shame.”
–Seems to be the main approach of Mercedes, Volkswagen, Audi, and even BMW.
They are beginning to regret their stupidity. They need a great big stick. Even 400k tesla orders is not enough. When tesla crushes the 35k market, they will buy diapers.
As an ex BMW driver, I can see they are at least doing SOMETHING… Plans to make all models plug in hybrids is at least a step in the right direction. Mercedes on the other hand as lagging. Only 3? PHEV’s that I know of (so far). Why they stopped working with Tesla is beyond belief !!!
I have a suspicion that traditional car manufacturers ‘turned up their noses’ at this newcomer. It was beneath them to work with the upstart.
In five years Tesla is likely to be the premier brand and other companies may find themselves sucking up to Tesla.
—
Well, I do get caught up in fantasies at times. They’re fun….
Yes, it’s just plain stupid. Something’s amiss here in Ford PR land. I know they have to lie and say they are competitive while caught napping in the EV market, but they could say it a little more convincingly.
Really, a converted ICE platform is all they have until 2020, so they are screwed. They have to pretend that’s OK.
Sounds like they know model 3 outdated them, but they can’t do anything about it. Too far behind.
I don’t blame them for stating the Focus EV is suitable/good for a lot of people, but to contradict themselves now and say nothing new is on the horizon is disturbing. As you say something is amiss in Ford PR land, hopefully that’s all this is and they are still working on better/longer range EV’s.
Yes. Ford is pretty serious about getting into the game, but a lot of companies thought they had the luxury of time to fool around with PHEVs . Tesla changed all that with the 3s.
If only the read the comments on CleanTechnica…
Considering less than 1% sales over more than 5 years, Ford and others have plenty of time to get in the game, if there IS a game. How many people in your town own an EV?…there you go.
Can not you see it? Everybody is going to buy $40k 200 miles range BEVs instead of $15k 500 miles range ICE. Especially it is gonna be the case say in China and India.
With the Nissan Leaf, and soon to be Chevy Bolt with a 200 mile range, Ford is conceding defeat. They need to focus on pure electric cars, because that is the future, and they’re competitors like Tesla, Nissan, Chevy, Mitsubishi, BYD, and others will leave them in the dust, if they continue to ignore the market realities. This is a foolish decision, on Ford’s part.
The market reality is that Ford is going to sell more ICEs than Tesla, Nissan, Chevy, Mitsubishi, BYD EVs all together.
Until Tesla announces their 300 mile $19k EV. Then anybody not in the game will be done.
They will be buried by those who DO follow Teslas lead.
If that’s not clear as day, get your eyes checked.
Batteries need to be about $60/kWh for that to happen. Probably 2023, 2025 or thereabouts. Not even 2 vehicle platform generations away (assuming 6-7 years per generation). They need to start the design in the next 3-4 years.
Last bets, gentlemen.
At great as Tesla is, most people won’t care and will stick with a traditional ICE no matter what. It will take time.
Let’s try that with another recent transformative product: “As great as iPhones are, most people won’t care and will stick with a traditional flip phone no matter what.”
How’s that working out for you?
Until the Saudis decide to stop flooding the market…Make no mistake EV is the future (hell Model 3 is attractive even with the artificially low oil prices). The market reality today will definitely not be the market reality in 10 years. Ford and other manufacturers are not stupid. They will increase the commitment to EVs but they will lag as much as they can without missing their window of opportunity.
When I was in my hometown a few years ago, I didn’t see any EVs. Last year, I saw some every time I went out, often several.
Knowing how quickly disruptive technology takes over once ripe, one would hope (for Ford’s sake) that Ford’s behind-the-scenes approach to this technology transition is much better than its public approach.
Ford is stupid. Even a 12 year old kid can see that electric cars are the future. Do the executives at Ford think that as the Nissan Leaf, and Mitsubishi I-Meav get cheaper each year, a major disruption will not occur, and electric cars will not take over the market? Now Ford will be left in the dust with it’s one overpriced Focus electric car, as competitors, steal the show, and increase their sales of increasingly longer range electric vehicles.
The statements from ford show that they don’t understand why people fixate on range for EVs but ignore that with ICE. With ICE gets low on fuel you stop and fill up it only takes 5 to 10minutes. For EV’s once the battery gets low you know it will take at least an hour to recharge. So in that case knowing the vehicles range is important.
Ford is not asking the right questions.:
1.Why are people concerned about range of EV?
2.Why are people less concerned about the range of Tesla EVs?
3.Why are people interested in DC chargers?
An EV with 300 km range for under US$30,000? I think a manufacturer will announce such a vehicle by 2020. In real life, i.e., outside of thrilling friends with Tesla acceleration, a 0 to 60 mph in 10 seconds is entirely satisfactory. It is a fast time for many vehicles on the road today. Match slower acceleration to smaller, and thus lower-cost parts, a 70 kw.h battery, slower charging, and a body of Renault Dacia quality and features (minimal features), I fully expect 300/30,000 will be on offer by 2020.
Ford could try battery swapping.
Musk said “fast or free” but only built 1 swapping station.
Swapping worked with Better Place and Renault.
A firm in Taiwan is trying swapping for scooters.
Swapping worked with Better Place and Renault?
“Better Place filed for bankruptcy in Israel in May 2013. The company’s financial difficulties were caused by mismanagement, wasteful efforts to establish toeholds and run pilots in too many countries, the high investment required to develop the charging and swapping infrastructure, and a market penetration far lower than originally predicted by Shai Agassi. Less than 1,000 Fluence Z.E. cars were deployed in Israel and around 400 units in Denmark, after spending about US$850 million in private capital. After two failed post-bankruptcy acquisition attempts, the bankruptcy receivers sold off the remaining assets in November 2013 to Grngy for only $450,000.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Better_Place
A strange definition of ‘worked.’
Why did they not try Norway?
Norway has huge incentives for EVs.
They went to AUS which has no incentives.
Hong Kong has EV incentives also. Along with Beijing or whatever.
In German slang: “Der Drops ist gelutscht” and no matter how good you think this should work the idea has brandmarks on it now and the mainstream market won’t touch it again.
Maybe another Musk will resurrect it down the road, chances are slim though..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gogoro
I’m not sure, but it looks as if Better Place wanted to control a large chunk of the EV ecosystem where they were operating. In Norway, that ship had already sailed, with imports subsidized and various EV perks in place (including Oslo’s municipal EV charging system). BP would never gain the control in that space that they may have been seeking.
A bit more:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plug-in_electric_vehicles_in_Norway
http://www.plugincars.com/better-place-pulled-down-israel-and-denmark-electric-car-market-say-local-drivers-129094.html
Better Place failed, it seems, due to the odd behavior of their CEO.
But now with rapidly dropping battery prices and ‘level 4’ charging we’ve probably left battery swapping behind for EVs. (I think there’s a potential for using swapping with large trucks as well as ag and mining equipment.)
This is a good article on the extreme challenges battery swapping faces: http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2013/05/28/2065311/battery-swapping-bust-electric-car-company-better-place-shuts-down/
In the car business you can either lead , follow, or get out of the way ! Which path is Ford taking .
Denying
Funny part, Henry Fords first cars were electric over 100 years ago , but didn’t make it. Battery issues and the company went BK . Hopefully they will get it right this time around. Having been in the car business for over 40 years , I think the biggest hinderece to EVs are the dealers themselves, not ready for the change in any way 🙁
Weight reduction. You want to increase range and reduce production cost? Find the materials to make cars weigh 1200 pounds instead of 4800 pounds. Exxon could become the premier transportation plastics development company if it wanted a blueprint for the future.
Doesn’t seem like anyone has cracked it yet. BMW’s i3 is a lightweight engineering marvel that is super efficient but is also the most expensive EV per mile (presumably due to ponderous carbon fibre production processes).
http://insideevs.com/bmw-i3-u-s-expensive-ev-per-mile-range-tesla-model-s-85-kwh-u-s-cheapest/
Carbon fiber as we know it – expensive and difficult to use – is not the answer.
Nope. Sorry. Cars are poorly designed for efficiency. Aerodynamic improvements have stalled or reversed for decades. 2/3 od drag at highway speeds is aero. Very little loss due to weight. In the city, that’s reversed. Thing is, EVs are so good at regeneration, it matters little.
They don’t show EV numbers properly, like an ICE. The EV highway range could easily be only 60-70% of city.
That tells you highway efficiency is miserable. All the other EVs except Tesla have CDs of 0.3 and above. Kia Soul is a miserable 0.35, wasting all the additional battery. If you want to reduce EV weight, give it aero. Then it needs a smaller battery for range. Yes, make the chassis light. EVs have the equivalent of one or two gallons of gasoline. If you had that, you would optimize efficiency for range. That’s what Tesla does. Time for the competition to wake up. This isn’t gas hog heaven pig sty land anymore.
I agree. It seems counter intuitive but the weight in an EV is not as great a penalty as it is in an ICE vehicle because of the regeneration that you mention. The extra energy to accelerate can be largely caught when you slow down. And regarding rolling friction, all you have to do is have tire combinations that carry a higher pressure for less flexing of the tire. Then adjust the spring rates to compensate for the stiffer tires and the rolling friction is not all that great. Recently on this blog a Tesla was driven for over 500 miles. The owner said that he increased the tire pressure of his tires from 45 psi to 50 psi. A normal ICE car may have pressures for smooth ride as low as 32 psi.
Yeah! I love it when somebody gets cars and EVs.
He also drove 22 miles an hours….
There was an article here within the past month of an extremely light EV (it liked like an enclosed bicycle!) that got something like 110 or 180 (?) range with a teensy battery.
Momentum still has a mass factor. Friction still has a weight factor. And 3000+ lbs of needless weight costs money in materials, whether it be steel, aluminum, carbon fiber.
If we want to make EV’s cost less and go farther on a charge, then keeping batteries small (= cheap) and bodies lighter will always make sense. The cars will also handle better. 4800 lbs for a Tesla S is pretty crazy.
Montgomery Scott, Chief Engineer of the Enterprise – where are we when we need you?
I dig lightness, too, and am no fan of chunky cars either. Just because aero is poor and makes other drag look good is no excuse for an overweight car. Peace.