Batteries tesla

Published on January 8th, 2016 | by Adam Johnston

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Tesla Starts Off 2016 By Producing & Delivering Powerwall

January 8th, 2016 by  

Tesla is off to an early start in 2016, thanks to its Powerwall battery energy storage system. Tesla global communications director Khobi Brooklyn recently stated that Tesla Powerwalls were already being made and shipped.

Last year, Tesla launched its anticipated product to discuss one of the major questions with regards to solar energy: storage. Tesla’s Powerwall comes in two models: 7 kWh and 10 kWh. Both systems target residential homeowners, to store extra solar electricity or for backup/electricity security. Tesla’s utility-scale energy storage product can be much bigger, of course. It’s geared for businesses that are looking to store large backup amounts of solar electricity or wind electricity, or simply electricity.

The cost for Tesla’s 7kWh Powerwall is $3,000, while the 10kWh one is $3500.

Tesla_Powerwall

Tesla Powerwall by Tesla Motors

Initial shipments will reportedly go to US and Australian customers. Since launching April 30th last year, anticipation is really high.

To meet demand, Tesla is building its Powerwall and Powerpack at its upcoming Gigafactory (#1) in Nevada. This Gigafactory is the critical piece in producing lithium-ion batteries required for both future Tesla cars and battery packs. Musk has stated Gigafactory #1 may expand to meet greater eventual consumer need of Tesla vehicles and battery packs, as indicated a week after the launch of the Tesla Powerwall.

Regardless, it’s exciting to see the first production and shipments for Tesla’s Powerwall getting underway, and 2016 is beginning to shape up as another exciting year for Elon Musk and company.

 
 
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About the Author

Is currently studying at the School of the Environment Professional Development program in Renewable Energy from the University of Toronto. Adam graduated from the University of Winnipeg with a three-year B.A. combined major in Economics and Rhetoric, Writing & Communications. Adam also writes for Solar Love and also owns his own part time tax preparation business. His eventual goal is to be a cleantech policy analyst, and is currently sharpening his skills as a renewable energy writer. You can follow him on Twitter @adamjohnstonwpg or at www.adammjohnston.wordpress.com.



  • Debbie

    As Brian Sandoval is trying to kill roof top solar power in Nevada (of all places) does this battery work as a way to avoid net metering with NV energy? Can the battery be set up to store my solar power to meet my energy needs then draw from the grid should I run out? I don’t want to go off the grid, but I don’t want to sell to NV energy at wholesale just to turn around and buy it back at retail at night!

  • Smithhammer

    “Powerwalls are already being made and shipped?”

    Where in the U.S. can I purchase a Powerwall right now? And I’m not talking about a couple pilot ‘lease programs.’

  • heinbloed

    First offers are available in Germany:

    http://www.photovoltaikforum.com/biete-geraete-dach-freiflaeche-beteiligungen-gewer-f19/tesla-powerwall-inklusive-pv-anlage-ab-1949-eur-kw-t110694.html

    I try it in short:

    5-6kWp PV system incl. 6.4 kWh Powerwall (complete material and installation incl. commissioning) for € 2259,-€/kWp netto.

    6-7 kWp PV system incl. the 6.4kWh Powerwall (as above) for 2099,-€/kWp netto.

    8-9kWp PV system incl. the 6.4 kWh Powerwall (as above) for 1949,-€/kWp netto.

    VAT has to be added at 19%.

  • Farmer_Dave

    As a backup for critical electrical supply the Powerwall would hardly ever cycle, much like the UPS I have for my computer. I wonder what its life expectancy is under those conditions?

    Of course for backup one will require an inverter as well, and total system capacity in an all-electric household (including heat pump) such as mine is significant. 7kw won’t cut it.

  • Bob Fearn

    I am a Tesla car and Powerwall fan who runs a small solar energy company in Canada. I have written to Tesla three times in the last 3 months and no reply. It appears that Canada is not on the Powerwall map.
    http://www.simplysolar.co

    • Bummer! I wrote them once to add my company to a list of possible distributors but never heard back. Hopefully it is not an issue when the Gigafactory is done.

    • neroden

      Apparently Tesla has sold out their entire 2016 production already (and by already I mean six months ago). Probably they don’t have enough staff or enough information to comfortably take orders for 2017 yet.

  • Larry

    Add another halo to Elon Musk! Bravo!

  • Ronald Brakels

    With regard to installation cost, in a country with a healthy solar installation industry, no one will have the market power to charge more than normal profits for the installation of a Tesla Powerwall. Normal profits mean all business costs are met including installers being paid, insurance and delivery costs, and normal return on capital. If some installers charge more than that then other installers will under cut them on price and take their customers.

    What this means is, once the novelty wears off, here in Australia a Tesla Powewall will not be particularly expensive to install. Unless there is something strange about it that I am unaware of, apart from its weight it should be about as difficult to install as a solar inverter. And people aren’t exactly making a fortune installing them.

    Now this doesn’t mean that early adopters won’t be charged a lot or that people in remote areas won’t have to pay a heap for someone to come out there and install one, or that people won’t at times simply be overcharged. But a Powerwall and its future competitors will become just one more piece of electrical equipment and have comparable installation costs.

    • vensonata

      Yes, as I look at the Australian sites there are amazingly well priced “packages” of 5 kw PV and battery for under $15,000. So they have started off quite competitively, not trying to mess with people’s heads.

      • juxx0r

        But 5kW of solar here is $6,000, so the powerwall is $9,000.

        • Ronald Brakels

          If the Powerwall is part of an islanding off-grid system then it would need to be compared to the cost of a more expensive islanding off-grid system and not a non-islanding grid connected system which shuts itself off when the grid goes down.

          • juxx0r

            OK, then take out $1800 for the inverter from the solar, and that makes the powerwall plus inverter $10,800

          • Ronald Brakels

            The average cost of a five kilowatt rooftop solar system here in Australia in December 2015 was apparently $7,042 Australian. So if an islanding off-grid system with a Powerwall costs $15,000 Australian then that costs about an extra $8,000 over a non-islanding grid connected system. Using today’s exchange rate, the 7 kilowatt-hour Powerwall is $4,285 Australian, so we’re looking at around an extra $3,700 for the extra cost of an islanding inverter and extra installation cost of the entire system. That’s not so bad for an off-grid system, but of course makes no sense for a non-islanding grid connected sytem.

            But I would like to make clear that don’t know anything. I don’t even know if Vensonata was using Australian or US dollars when he referred to systems under $15,000.

          • juxx0r

            Personally i think $5k for an islanding inverter is a bit steep

          • Ronald Brakels

            Well, considering that the 5 kilowatt Sunny Boy SMA 5000TL islanding solar inverter can be purchased for under $2,000 Australian, one would have to be pretty thick to pay $5,000 for a 5 kilowatt islanding inverter.

          • juxx0r

            And therein lies my problem with 5kW of solar and a Powerwall for $15k

          • Ronald Brakels

            The $15,000 dollar price is clearly either for early adopters or people who are in a rush to install a new off-grid system. Given time and a suficent supply of Powerwalls or similar products I’m certain system prices will come down.

          • vensonata

            Again, I think we had better get the actual quoted price. My $15,000 might be flawed on the high side.

          • vensonata

            Actually I was just throwing out a number I had seen…in Aus Dollars. Other numbers were less. I took great care to analyze the numbers, to dissect the system etc, then I carefully filed the info. What was not careful was where I filed the info. And now, alas, the search is on.

    • Branding can definitely make a difference in overall costs.
      It is value that they are selling, people will purchase for the Tesla name.

      • JamesWimberley

        Tesla have learnt that lesson from Apple that design matters, provided it expresses an underlying quality in the product and is not just packaging.

      • Jenny Sommer

        Only if there is no better performing product around.
        Since when have batteries become lifestyle products?
        Maybe the powerwall isn’t economical after all and people that are buying it are doing it for other reasons.

        • I didn`t say that I would use if it was way more money. I expect lots of demand for the Tesla Powerwall as soon as they start deploying everywhere. I am excited to get to play with one in the future, same with SonnenBatterie!

          Both of them have software to regulate all the electrical loads. I would like to punish the utilities that want to tax their customers for going Solar or Time of Use by reducing their grid consumption to nearly 0. By peak shaving and producing power from Solar without putting it back into the grid.

          The software piece will separate these two players from other great new Energy Storage technology like Aquion Energy which are also modular and scalable.

        • Dan

          Batteries are lifestyle products. Sustainable living is, fortunately for us all, becoming a lifestyle. Hopefully mainstream airheads will compete with each other for the coolest (and best) sustainable accessories. Bill Nye and his neighbor Edgar Begley Jr promote this “keepin up with the jone’s” attitude for environmentally friendly lifestyle choices.

          Hopefully utilities don’t come out with some glittery inferior product that abuses this tendency in people.

          • Jenny Sommer

            First world problems.
            Environmentalism isn’t about how much you spend on lifestyle products.
            It seems like the sales of batteries are also driven by bad infrastructure (blackouts) and a lack of competition or bad market design in some places ( grid and utilities not unbundled). Where I live we don’t experience blackouts and I can choose to buy my power from several 100% renewable sellers which probably yields a much greater effect than buying batteries.
            If you care to switch (most people are too lazy anyways) you pay around 17€ct/kWh even in Germany.
            7000€ is worth 10 years of grid power to me.

          • John Ihle

            W respect to no blackouts, wait until your grid loses a major substation transformer or two.. or three.

          • Jenny Sommer

            Could happen…could happen in 50years.
            I’d take out the food into the cold if it was winter or use it up within 2 days.
            Power would probably be up by then anyways.

          • neroden

            Lucky you. Here in rural New York we get blackouts at least yearly, usually more often.

          • Dan

            Here in Illinois my fiancé and I were able to switch to wind and we live in an apartment so that’s perfect for us. I’m pretty sure we are paying the same rate we were before, I don’t have the bill handy atm. I suppose my point was that the market isn’t always driven by rational choices and making green and clean tech cool is good for everyone. Of course we should keep our focus on doing things the best way they can be done, whether it comes to battery, smart grid, or charger infrastructure, but for those people out there who don’t have their head in the game at all (seemly the majority), they will help scale up the entire industry and set a new standard for our society if they are attracted to the ‘lifestyle’.

  • vensonata

    A thought occurs: Is it possible that a 30% tax rebate which applies to PV will also apply soon to the storage batteries? I think it is obviously the next application. That would reduce the price per kwh of the 7 kwh powerwall to about 7.5 cents kwh.
    Since the tax rebate applies to the inverter and racking etc it seems very likely that the battery will be included in the tax rebate.

    • bink

      that is dual use property so you will not be getting a 30% tax credit

      • vensonata

        Now Bink, this could be very important to your batteries as well. I don’t know how it did not occur to me until a few hours ago. But why would a “whole package installation of PV and batteries” not qualify for the tax rebate?

    • harisA

      For grid attached use, I think it will not apply. For off grid use you can meake the case that it applies now!

  • harisA

    It seems in California, from what I have been reading about NEM 2.0, the electric utility will still be our ‘Powerwall’. I wonder where it makes good economic sense in the USA?

    • GCO

      Tesla initially announced two versions: 7 kW⋅h for daily cycling, and 10 kW⋅h for backup applications.

      I reckon that it is the 2nd which is now starting to ship, as indeed, the “daily cycle” version is unlikely to make sense in the US [link] (although we might want to keep an eye on what Hawaiian utilities do…).

      • Ronald Brakels

        There is still an off-grid market in the US. If I were building a new off-grid system in the US I don’t think I’d go for lead-acid batteries if the 7 kilowatt-hour Powerwall was available. Of course, the cost of rooftop PV is quite different from here in Australia, and the weather can be quite different too, so I’d crunch the numbers before making a decision.

        • harisA

          I doubt Tesla cares about off grid market.

          • Ronald Brakels

            That seems odd considering that Tesla has made a product that will be in big demand by people living off-grid. But even if Tesla doesn’t care, plenty of people building new off-grid systems will. However, Australia does has a large advantage over the US in regard to off-grid living as the cost of installed rooftop solar is a lot lower per watt which means we can install more PV and made do with less energy storage.

          • Bryan

            No they won’t because no true off grid inverter on the market operates at 350 V DC.

          • Ronald Brakels

            Wow, those people installing them right now in Australia must be feeling pretty stupid.

          • Bryan

            The inverters in Australia that the PowerWall is being connected to are grid tie inverters not true off grid inverters with high surge capacities.

          • Ronald Brakels

            Fronius Symo maximum input voltage 1,000 volts.

          • Bryan

            That’s fine, but how many homeowners installed Fronius inverters ? And because it’s transformerless, it won’t have much of a surge capacity like a true off grid transformer based inverter will.

            Without an substantial surge rating, a tranformerless inverter will have trouble starting inductive loads like motors, pumps air conditioning. etc.

          • Ronald Brakels

            I would imagine that all the people who are getting Tesla Powerwalls installed are getting Fronius Symo Hybrid inverters if they have three phase power or Solaredge inverters if they have single phase power or some other Tesla Powerwall compatible inverter.

            I find it hard to believe that anyone getting a Powerwall at the moment is getting one with a grid tied inverter, so why did you write, “The inverters in Australia that the PowerWall is being connected to are grid tie inverters not true off grid inverters…” I would be very interested in seeing any evidence that this is the case because I would be very surprised if that is so.

          • Bryan

            I didn’t write “The inverters in Australia that the PowerWall is being connected to are grid tie inverters not true off grid inverters…”

            Go back and read my post. You’re making that up. I never mentioned Australia.

            And as for your statement: “I find it hard to believe that anyone getting a Powerwall at the moment is getting one with a grid tied inverter”.

            The Fronius Symo is a grid tie inverter. It’s both a grid tie inverter and an off grid inverter but due to it’s lack of a transformer and capacitors when compared to a true off grid inverter, it will not handles inductive surges like a true off grid inverter can.

            The Fronius Symo is a hybrid inverter. Read their spec sheet if you want evidence and tell me what a Fronius Symo’s surge capacity is?

      • Frank
    • In the mountains or when the utility has not ran power to the property. It is way cheaper to setup some batteries. In Colorado you can not disconnect from the grid if it is ran to your property so it makes no sense.

      • neroden

        “Can’t”? Utility companies disconnect people from the grid for not paying their bills all the time. I figure if you’re hell bent on disconnecting from the grid eventually they’ll let you.

        • Utilities don`t disconnect people for not paying there bills on time, they just turn there power off.
          You can produce from Renewables and store all of your power and not use the grid, but if it is ran to your property you still have to pay the grid tied fee.

          • Andy

            But without the threat of turning off the power, why would anyone pay the grid tie fee?

    • dRanger

      “I wonder where it makes sense…” That may depend somewhat on the definition of “make sense” but I can see a business case here in Calfornia, maybe. My on-peak rate is $.42/kWH and off-peak is $.10/kWH. With a 7kWh unit cycled 6 kWh every day, that “earns” about $2/day in summer. Cutting to the bottom line, the main value of a battery for me would be to permit my PV array to supply power during an extended outage. A generator backup has no payback, but a battery may, depending on how it is configured. How quickly the battery is “consumed” by daily cycling is yet to be proven as part of the calculation, but any workable backup solution with a payback is better than a solution without one.

      • The software behind these units would give you tremendous savings by peak shaving and giving you way less on-peak time. Your battery would charge during the off peak times.
        It would also provide backup power to your critical loads if you created a critical load sub panel.

        • dRanger

          Our utility (PG&E) has proposed demand charges for residential customers and if that is approved, it would add to the residential business case for a battery. Right now only commercial and industrial users can benefit from peak shaving here. I am unconvinced the cost of wiring for critical loads is worth it for the average consumer. In an outage it’s pretty easy to just shut off non-critical loads, but I’m sure there are applications where it would make sense.

    • Deep Time

      Here in the northeast we’ve had a couple of weather incidents over the past few years where we’ve lost power for a week or more. We’ve had to resort to gas generators to keep the bare minimum going (fridge, a couple of lights, the furnace). They are noisy, polluting and require frequent attention. Plus gasoline can be hard to find with widespread long lasting power outages.

      I would love to replace that stinky generator with a Powerwall or something similar. Since we have a PV system it would allow us to store extra energy during the day plus provide security when the power goes out.

      I’ve been pretty aggressive at driving our energy usage down; I have a Neurio monitor installed which has helped identify where we can cut our energy usage. Right now our “always on” energy is 250 watts or so, and that includes 75 watts for our Radon remediation system which can be turned off for short periods during power outages.

  • vensonata

    For those considering going off grid or storing more than one nights worth of power here is something to think about. The Tesla 7 kwh powerwall has a 14 year lifespan at one full cycle per day. (5000 cycles according to Musk, at shareholder meeting). Off grid you will want two but you will probably not actually use 14 kwh per day…more like 7-9. So your battery cycle increases to about 25 years. But what about the second or third day storage? Now you need a lower lifecycle battery for that because it will occur only 50 times per year. A 1000 cycle battery is fine for 2 and 3rd day storage. Go cheap…. One might also consider a 10 kwh powerwall for the 2nd day because its price per kwh is $350 vs $428 for the 7kwh powerwall. The levelized cost is about 11 cents kwh for the 7 kwh powerwall and twice that per kwh for the 10 kwh, but you will actually use those on occasion. Sorry if I am not clear, but hope you get my drift.

    • GCO

      Indeed you’re not clear. For starters, what makes you think that a battery system (cells, electronics, cooling system if applicable, weatherproofing, compatible inverters, etc) will last anywhere near 25 years?

      In addition, you seem to be completely ignoring a lot of the costs involved, installation in particular, or maybe you’re just making up numbers.
      As I asked in another thread, care to provide some reference, like pointing us to installers offering the prices you claim?

      • vensonata

        Whether the battery will last 25 years is up for debate. As you may be aware, whole forums are written about the longevity of the Model S battery. Some producers such as Fronius and Sonnenbatterie definitely talk about 25 year lifespans. Sonnenbatterie claims a 10,000 cycle life battery which if cycled once per day is 28 years. As far as installation…it will vary, won’t it? And as to “making up numbers” you have hastily concluded that, but that is your slightly sour personality talking. Don’t worry, I enjoy being called to account and assure you I am really interested in the actual cost of these battery thingy’s since I will have to buy them myself.

        • http://www.sonnenbattery.com/en/home/

          10,000 cycles is on the website.

        • GCO

          “definitely talk about 25 year lifespans” – I can’t find anything on their websites confirming that (Sonnenbatterie “only” guarantees 70% capacity at year 10, and Fronius doesn’t say). Source, please?

          “I am really interested in the actual cost” – Great, does that mean you have tangible data, like a quote? Anything more solid than speculations and wishful thinking basically?

          You often make good points yet the numbers you keep brandishing look completely off: how for example do you come up with 22c/kW⋅h for a 5~7k$ 10kW⋅h battery meant for less than 70 cycles/year??

          I calculate e.g. 5k$ / (10kW⋅h × 70 cycles × 9 years) = 79c/kW⋅h.
          (Price and contract duration [here] and [here].)
          I’d love for you to prove my math or pricing wrong…

          • vensonata

            “definitely talk about 25 year lifespans” – look around more. They may not have it in their warranty but they have expressed this in writing. I went through an extensive period of trying to determine the lifespan of lithium batteries of various types. There was a “golden age” of discussion on cleantechica about year or more ago about this issue. I watched hour long talks on battery lifespans by Prof Jeff Dahn and even to my own surprise, read a master’s thesis from some Dutch University on the topic. The conclusion…nobody knows for sure. But they are talking 25 years. They are also talking 3 years for some chemistry…like the Leaf. But it seems we have moved on with the Leaf battery and now they assure… blah, blah, blah.

            “Anything more solid than speculations and wishful thinking basically?” Now that is what I mean by your “tone”. Cut the shit man. Talk without the attitude and everyone will rejoice.

            “how for example do you come up with 22c/kW⋅h for a 5~7k$ 10kW⋅h battery meant for less than 70 cycles/year??”
            I don’t, you do. Get it straight, the difference in price per kwh between the 7kwh and the 10 kwh is startling. The 7 is $428 kwh with 5000 cycles. The 10 is $350 kwh at about 1200 cycles. The ten is easily twice the price per kwh of the 7.
            You see we are not having a coherent conversation if you are being so obtuse about what we are analyzing. The 11 cents kwh is also the quote by Morgan Stanley. Now don’t ask me to do your homework for you. All I ask is that you, with your math skills, take the 7 kwh powerwall apart and see what the best reasonable case is for cost per kwh ‘for that battery’…not for the inverter, not for labor, not for anything else. But none of it will be valid if you are not fully cognizant of true total lifecycle, true round trip losses, etc. Your math can be out by 50% if you make the wrong assumptions.

            Now I don’t have more time for this, unfortunately, and over the past year or so I have posted some of these formulas etc. The problem with these forums is that they involve the loss of issues that have been discussed and it is too tedious and time consuming to repeat them endlessly. Now don’t get me wrong. Despite the limits to this daily Cleantechnica forum the alternatives are almost zero. So we make do with what we have.

          • vensonata

            “The new Sonnenbatterie eco
            is a very long-lived and capable storage system. It achieves 10,000
            charge cycles and is designed to operate for more than 20 years. This
            long service life gives you long-term investment security and makes your
            household fit for the future.” From the Sonnenbatterie English language site. Straight from the horses mouth.

          • Bob_Wallace

            If you find you are repeatedly posting the same information over and over then I suggest you store a canned response somewhere like Google Documents and just paste it over.

            Unfortunately we aren’t a stable/constant group or fortunately we have an inflow of new people who don’t remember discussions that happened before they tuned in.

        • Bryan

          No lithium ion battery on the planet can survive 10k cycles unless your cycling it at a 20% DOD. And nobody is going off grid on a 14 kWh battery pack at a 20% DOD. That’s a pipe dream.

          • vensonata

            Wrong. Obviously. First, lithium titanate can full cycle 25,000 times. Sony is the maker of the Sonnenbatterie and they claim 10,000 cycles to 100%. You will have to argue with them since it is not my claim. And, as you say (weirdly enough) “nobody is going off grid on a paif of 7 kWh battery pack at a 5% to 10% DOD.” Why would they?

          • Bryan

            Lithium Titanate only offer 3000-7000 cycles depending on DOD plus their cost is horrendous. Tesla does not use this expensive chemistry in their batteries so the point is moot.

    • Ronald Brakels

      I would not be surprised if many people get 14 years use out of their Powerwalls, but as lithium batteries slowly degrade over time whether they are used or not I don’t think they are likely to last 25 years, although perhaps I will be pleasantly surprised. One way to get an idea of how badly they autodegrade is to see how long Tesla is happy to have them sit in storage before they are installed.

      • MorinMoss

        Self-discharging and capacity degradation are separate problems.

        • Ronald Brakels

          They certainly are.

      • neroden

        I think the temperature of the installation is going to be a major determinant of how long they last. Tesla car batteries are “coddled” to the right temperature, but Powerwalls aren’t. They probably should be installed indoors.

        • Ronald Brakels

          I don’t know if you know, but apparently Tesla was made aware of concerns about operating temperature and the maximum operating temperature given for a Powerwall on their Australian site has been increased to 50 degrees Celsius. I don’t know when that change was made and I don’t know if it applies to Powerwalls in other countries. While it reached 49 degrees in Moomba recently, 50 degree temperatures are not something Australia has had to suffer much of so far. Of course, in the warmer parts of the country they will still need to be installed in the shade. A black one in the sun might reach 80 degrees. And, as with any valuable electrical equipment, it would be best not to expose it to extremes of temperatures even if they are within its operating parameters. Installing them indoors may (should) increase their lifespans. But the warranty is the same indoors or outdoors, so people will have to decide what is best for them.

          • neroden

            I’m sure they’ll be good for the warranty period anywhere. But people are talking 25 years plus lifespans… which I believe for an indoor installation, but not so sure about an outdoor installation!

          • Ronald Brakels

            I find it difficult to believe in a 25 year life span full stop due to the slow but gradual decay that will occur in the cells whether they are used or not. I suppose one that is treated gently might still have some capacity but be operating far below spec after 25 years, but I doubt it would operate at all.

  • Marion Meads

    And the question is, how much is the average installation cost of the powerwall done by a Tesla certified technician?

    • Alaa

      peanuts

      • Stephen YCheck

        Free! J/k…

    • vensonata

      Musk said “less than $500”.

      • Marion Meads

        Need reference or official quote site. If true, then truly I wouldn’t consider the pricing a bait at all, especially when the installation is less than 15% of the cost of the 10 kWh Powerwall!

        • Starlord7

          He said it during the 2015 Tesla shareholders meeting, the video is on YouTube.
          However we’ve seen his statements on timing and pricing in the past, and I don’t expect people to start buying Powerwalls until this summer so will have to wait and see.

          • Bryan

            He says a lot of things like he would double the PowerWall’s power density but that hasn’t happened. It appears to me that the continuous rating is still only 2 kW with a 3.3 kW peak.

          • vensonata

            Musk said they would raise it from 2kw to 3.3kw. And they did. That is continuous. I think the peak is 5 kw. In looking at the chemistry properties of the 7 kwh powerwall there appears to be no problem handling the high power draws, Tesla was probably just being ultra cautious. The fact is that lithium chemistry is still fairly new and certain predictions about multi year performance under all kinds of variable conditions are not yet possible. They are working on it with the addition of Jeff Dahn to Tesla. He is a top engineering professor who is attempting to build the rather pricey machinery which can actually measure the tiny indicators which predict lifespan.

          • vensonata

            Actually Musk did say “5kw continuous, 7 kw peak” And the Tesla site now says 3.3 kw… So here we go again, a comedy of errors.

      • $500 seems easily very possible. I run Operations for Production Solar out of Denver, CO and haven’t seen the interior components for the Powerwall yet, but it seems simple and scalable like a basic string inverter.

        Keep in mind that you would still have to pay an electrician to move the critical loads to a sub-panel. I would like to see what SolarCity will charge to do the service since anyone who owns one of their systems needs to stay in house with Energy Storage to not void the warranty.

        • vensonata

          Nice info. We need more input from experienced installers. I suppose any time now an avalanche of hands on experience will come out of Australia as they are releasing the powerwall there this month.

          • Australia will have access to the 7kw which is more for daily use than the 10kw which is just for critical loads. I am excited to analyze the Powerwall against SonnenBatterie to find out who has more value. Energy storage is on the rise.
            They both win in my books being modular and scalable!

        • Vince Runco

          Sol

      • Bryan

        try another $2,000 for install which is far from peanuts.

        • vensonata

          Again, Bryan…Musk said “less than $500”. Shareholders meeting. Chastising Solar Citys’ Rive for saying things like you just said.

    • Kyle Field

      This is spot on. I’m curious to hear/see details on install diagrams, pricing, payouts, etc. I don’t expect the installs will be done by Tesla as they were vetting electrician partners.

      • Bryan

        Thus far there are a limited number of inverter models that are approved for use with the PowerWall so it will be interesting to see where is ends up.

    • GCO

      Last year, SolarCity CTO Peter Rive said [link] that a powerwall system, installed, would start at “about 5k$” (a figure which surely assumes that the PV system already in place is directly compatible), but this was apparently for a prepaid, 9-year lease.

      The installed price for an outright purchase was 7 k$ [link1] [link2].

      • vensonata

        Was that before or after Musk had a stern talk with him not to shoot from the lip about prices?

        • GCO

          You tell us, all articles have dates.
          Better yet, just point us to a more recent quote.

          • vensonata

            You are aware of that “conversation” I hope. The incredible mess of misstatements by everybody and his brother about the Tesla Powerwall was a curious phenomenon. In many cases deliberate, but in others just the sheer inability to understand anything about these batteries. You would have thought Peter Rive at least would have been better informed.

    • Jenny Sommer

      Should depend in the installation. If you only have to mount it and install 2 cables… less than 200€.

      • Bryan

        Connect two cables to what ? Not just any old grid tie inverter.

        • Jenny Sommer

          It’s wired to the inverter. Might need a new one.
          Simple, no?

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