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Batteries leaf-battery

Published on July 1st, 2014 | by Important Media Cross-Post

27

Nissan LEAF Replacement Battery Priced At $5,499

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July 1st, 2014 by  

leaf-battery

Originally posted on Gas2

Replacement batteries for the Nissan LEAF electric vehicles are now available through authorized Nissan dealers. The price is $5’499, including a credit of $1,000 for the return of the old battery, and trading in the old battery is a requirement of purchase.

The new batteries are the same as those used in the 2015 LEAF and incorporate everything Nissan has learned since it first brought the LEAF to market 4 years ago. It also comes with a new warranty of 8 years/100,000 miles. Known as the “lizard battery”, it takes advantage of internal changes that make it more tolerant of high temperatures. Some customers living in hot climates have complained that their batteries have degraded rapidly and Nissan has taken steps to address those concerns

While Nissan is supposedly working on a 150-mile range version of the LEAF, these batteries are rated for 84 miles per charge. Owners of 2010-2012 model year cars will be required to purchase an adapter kit to retrofit the new batteries to their cars, and there is also an installation charge set by the dealer for the exchange. The process requires about 3 hours to complete.

Now that Nissan has established a price for the replacement batteries, it is possible to calculate the cost per kilowatt hour, which works out to be $270/kWh. That number is considerably lower per kWh cost when the LEAF was introduced in 2010, so greater volume is in fact driving down the cost as anticipated.

The company is finalizing the details of a financing program to make the purchase of new batteries affordable for owners, and Nssan expects the monthly cost under that program to be about $100 per month.

 

 

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  • john

    If I knew that I could pop an upgraded ((48kw?) Battery Into a Leaf when replacement is needed then I would go for a Leaf or similar ev..
    Meanwhile, I will run my 2007 prius + bicycle for a few more years and hope this will happen.

  • Jonathan Stewart

    My local Nissan dealer just ordered a replacement battery pack for my 2011 Leaf with 47,000 miles on it. It’s covered under the 5-year, 60k warranty since it dropped to 8 bars. It’s the first one my dealer has done and they don’t seem to know the procedure. Nissan is slow to return my calls. Has anyone had this done? Do they replace it with the new “lizard” battery, or just 2011 tech? Do you know if the new battery is covered with a new warranty, or does it piggyback on the original’s?

    • Rapero

      Hi, Nissan has replaced your batteries with the new lizard?

  • Matt

    Since number of new batteries appear to be the limiting item for most new EV production; I would not expect Nissan or anyone else to sale you a new battery if you don’t have the car (and old battery). This does not tell you that the battery is subsidized only that they would rather have them to put in new cars than sell them for your personal project (whatever it is). Not saying they are not subsidized just that your logic. Must have existing Nissan battery == subsidized is false.

  • Matt

    Yes expect refurbished battery market to appear. The first might be a Nissan plants/offices with solar panels. Letting them with to mostly/all off peak power saving lots of money. But at some point they will have enough that they want to sell them to others.

  • Jouni Valkonen

    GM and GM Parts Online -site has nothing to do with each other. You absolutely cannot buy Chevy Volt battery via that site! That site is probably just for trolling, or even worse, it takes your money from your credit card.

  • Steve Grinwis

    … You can technically do all of these things with gas cars. You can install larger more powerful motors, more efficient transmisisons, increase the size of fuel tanks, etc. You generally *don’t* have factory support for this though.

    I question if we’ll be able to get bigger, badder batteries for the Volt in 5 years though. I suspect we’ll just be able to get replacements. GM will want you to buy the newer, bigger badder Volt, not just retrofit old cars with new batteries forever.

    • Kyle Field

      the complexity is the change. the motor in an EV is just one part – and maybe a new controller/programming. an engine in an ICE is a complex beast with many considerations. Similarly, the batteries can take any form, shape, etc within the confines of the car. I get what you’re saying, it just feels a bit more simplistic in an EV (maybe I’m way off…time will tell :) ).

      • Steve Grinwis

        People have been doing motor swaps in ICE cars for a good long time, though, most often to another engine supported by that chassis. Manufacturers design ICE cars to be modular as well, is basically what I’m saying. You swap out an engine, and swap in a whole new one. It comes complete with pretty much everything you need already bolted on. Ditto for a new transmission, or a new differential. My previous car had the ability to do all these things, and actually had factory support for this, because of the high performance nature of the car.

        Where the EV’s may well be more complicated is the software interconnections. You need to be able to tell your inverter / controller how much current you can pull out of the battery pack, and that varies wildly across conditions. Or at least, it varies wildly across conditions for my EV, I assume other behave similarly. The manufacturer who programmed that system knew about all the conditions for that pack, how much to reduce power in the cold, or in the heat… how much to reduce power in low battery conditions etc.

        The reverse is also true: How fast can you charge the pack, and under what conditions for regenerative braking? This seems like a new and interesting form of voodoo magic. My car doesn’t really allow full regen until the battery pack has been dissipated to 90% charge, and only if it’s not too hot, but this also varies based on A/C usage.

        These are not unsolvable problems, but, it may make aftermarket upgrades more of a gamble then they’re worth, especially when the industry is still really young.

        Mechanically, they are simple beasts, especially compared to ICEs. But the software may well be complicated enough to give the aftermarket pause for a while.

  • Ronald Brakels

    Okay, now that we have a price for replacement batteries for the Leaf we can say that the internal combustion is a dead man walking… Or maybe a dead car rolling would be more accurate. Here in Australia for an average driver doing 15,000 kilometers a years the battery price will come to about 5 cents a kilometer. If the owner can charge it with home solar our low feed-in tariffs means it might only cost a cent or two a kilometer to charge the battery for a total cost of say 7 cents a kilometer. In Australia with our $1.50 a liter gasoline prices a fuel efficient compact car that gets 15 km to the liter is still going to cost 10 cents a kilometer to fuel. This makes a Nissan Leaf about a third cheaper before the lower maintenance costs of electric vehicles are included. Include the benefit of lower pollution in there and it’s even more of a winner.

    And since a mass produced electric car is cheaper to build before the cost of the battery is included than a comparable gasoline vehicle, at five and a half thousand dollars or less for a 24 kilowatt-hour battery pack, conventional gasoline cars are due to go extinct. It remains to be seen if liquid fuel passenger cars can hold out in hybrid or highly efficient forms.

  • Jouni Valkonen

    It is good to note that Nissan subsidizes these prices. You cannot buy new 24 kWh battery-pack at that price from Nissan and use it for storing the electricity of your neighborhood’s solar microgrid. The pack level cost of $270 per kWh would be super competitive in grid storage markets!

    Actually this is quite high cost. The replacement cost of 85 kWh Tesla battery costs only $12 000 or $140 per kWh. And the replacement cost of Chevy Volt battery is about $2000.

    • Benjamin Nead

      “And the replacement cost of Chevy Volt battery is about $2000″

      What?!? Where did you find that number, Jouni? Perhaps that’s a misprint for $20,000? The Volt’s battery is only slightly smaller than the Leaf but is a more complex system with liquid cooling. I expect it to be rather pricy.

      A friend here in Tucson recently had to replace the battery in their Honda Civic Hybrid and was quoted around $8000 for a factory new one (this is about a 10 year old car and uses NiMH cells.) He opted to go with a rebuild with new cells in a used enclosure for $2800.

      Incidentally, this announcement of the $5499 trade-in Leaf batteries from Nissan is excellent news. It’s possible that Nissan co-opted the “Lizard” battery moniker from a Tucson Leaf driver, Jerry Asher, who has been referring to a possible hot weather Leaf replacement battery for Leafs by this name for years now.

      • Jouni Valkonen

        Actually I need to take back that Chevy Volt battery price. I had a the most unreliable site on Internet as source (i.e. Clean Technica!), but it turns out that Clean Technica went into the trolling of GM Parts Online -site that had listed price for new Volt battery little over $2000 with all discounts. But GM and that site has nothing to do with each other and certainly you cannot buy Volt battery via that site!

        But no-one seems to know in the Internet what is actually the cost of Volt battery as GM keeps it as industrial secret.

        http://green.autoblog.com/2014/01/10/chevy-volt-battery-replacement-cost-34000/

        But anyway, Tesla is more open with their battery replacement program and lots of Tesla customers have actually bought subsidized 85 kWh replacement battery with $12 000. There is even someone who upgraded 60 kWh battery to 85 kWh battery outside the battery replacement program and paid dearly on that!

      • Kenneth Beck

        You were being ripped off! Those are horrid prices. NIMH though hasnt dropped in price for years though. I think that they dont scale as well as lithium based batteries. And yes, lithium batteries have gotten down to the $200-300/KWH price range now. LIFEPO4 I believe was the first to reach that mark a couple years ago. Now with the large scale of lithium-ion, those are now less than LIFEPO4 type. By the way, the volt battery is BARELY above 10kwh’s of battery, why the Leaf is about 24kwh’s. That is a HUGE difference. Liquid cooling from the volt doesnt add as much in price as the BMS for the batteries. The Volt is a joke of a car…I am embarassed it is even an american car. Tesla on the other hand is 2x the price, yet has 5-6x the range with 6-8x the battery size, yet STILL makes a 25% margin….while GM LOOSES money on every volt sold? WHAT A JOKE!! Either GM is looking for sympathy purchases or they really are that bad with making cars.

        • danwat1234

          The Volt’s battery is 16KWh for 2011/2012, 16.5KWh for 2013/2014, and 17.1KWH for 2015.
          Usable capacity is 10-11KWh or so.

          It isn’t a joke of a car, it drives very nice and is rather fast with a software update (hack) to allow the engine to help with acceleration. Used Volt are down to $22K or so

      • Dave Head

        >>>replace the battery in their Honda Civic Hybrid and was quoted around $8000 for a factory new one
        Honda dealers only charge $3000.
        I can’t help wondering if your “friend” is
        as imaginary as your HCH battery pricetag.

        • Benjamin Nead

          What are you accusing me of here, Dave? I’m only recounting a story told to me by a real person I’ve known for almost 2 decades. He claims that the Honda dealer here in Tucson gave him the option of an $8000 brand new one or a $2800 factory rebuilt one and I tend to believe him.

          Perhaps the dealer was playing some sort of funny price quoting game with him. Then again, nobody here has ever heard of an auto dealer inflating a full list price for anything and then “cutting a deal.”

          This is also interesting reading regarding variances in hybrid battery pack replacement prices . . .

          http://www.tirebusiness.com/article/20121120/NEWS/121129994/replacing-hybrids-battery-not-as-costly-as-you-think

          Note that there is a significant discrepancy on what an original vehicle owner might pay under warranty and what an 2nd owner of a used vehicle pays.

    • Bob_Wallace

      How do you know that Nissan subsidizes these prices?

      You then tell us that Tesla batteries cost less than these “subsidized” Nissan batteries.

      There seems to be a logic disconnect.

      • Jouni Valkonen

        I can tell this, because I know how cheap are the cheapest grid storage solutions and I would be super glad if Nissan would sell me that 24 kWh battery at price $6499. But unfortunately I cannot buy that battery pack from Nissan at that price point.

        Cheapest consumer energy storage solutions have cost about two to three times higher than battery pack level cost of Nissan batteries.

        Not to mention Tesla battery replacement program that has pack level cost $12 000 for 85 kWh battery. But if you buy new battery pack from Tesla without replacement program, the price tag is $40 000.

        As the battery cost few years ago for LEAF battery was $18 000, it is reasonable to assume that there have been significant cost reduction from that. Perhaps Nissan has pushed the cost close to $10 000.

        We really cannot tell this, because Nissan (and Tesla) keeps the actual cost of their batteries as industrial secrets.

        • Bob_Wallace

          I’m not buying ‘your knowing’ as proof.

          Energy storage solutions are much more than just the batteries.

          • Steve Grinwis

            I can buy Li-ion cells for $375/ kWh, which is clearly *not* 2-3 times the cost of the Nissan pack. And that’s a guy walking off the street and buying a single cell, not a multi-billion dollar company signing a deal for millions of dollars of cells direct with a manufacturer…

            Cite: http://www.emotorwerks.com/products/online-store/product/show/8-calb-battery-180ah-cells

            By that metric, the 24 kWh pack in the leaf would be worth just $9000, my cost, on an off the shelf, per cell basis, in which a middle man is turning a tidy profit.

            I’ll totally buy that the $6500 price is pretty close to the actual cost for Nissan.

          • Matt

            Volume discounts! Same reason and food store will give you a cost break if you by the whole case instead of a single can. And if you call their distributer and say you buy 1000 cases you get an even better price. Call the factory that makes the batteries you use and work out a deal for 10k batteries and see if you don’t get a better price.

          • Steve Grinwis

            Right. That’s why I was suggesting $375 / kWh as a high water mark, since it isn’t a volume purchase, but a single purchase.

        • Ronald Brakels

          It is certainly possible that Nissin is losing money on this deal at this particular point in time. They may think the increase in sales that will result from people knowing how much it will cost to replace the battery pack after the 8 year/160,000 kilometer warranty is up is worth losing some money on replacement battery packs at this point in time. But unless they are confident that they can replace a battery pack at this cost soon before they actually have to replace too many, they would have to be what we scientists call nuts. Consistently selling stuff for less than what it costs to make does not make for a happy balance sheet. I find it very hard to believe that their business plan is:

          1. Consistently sell things for less than they cost to make.

          2. ???????

          3. Profit.

          • Jouni Valkonen

            Yep, this is the point. It makes very much sense for Nissan -to subsidize battery considerably because it increases the value of car, because resale value depriciates slower.

            This is the point why Tesla offers supercharging for free, because it increases the value of Tesla cars more than it causes additional costs for Tesla Motors.

        • Kenneth Beck

          Actually, there is a company in Nevada that sells the leaf batteries and entire packs for that price. How about you actually check around before you blurt out crap you have no clue about. http://www.hybridautocenter.com
          Take a look at the batteries that they carry and SELL to the open public for electric conversions, energy storage, etc.

          • Jouni Valkonen

            Hybrid Auto Center does not sell Nissan LEAF battery at that price point.

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