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	<title>Comments on: IEA Sides With Utilities On ‘Free-riding’ Rooftop Solar PV</title>
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	<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/11/14/iea-sides-utilities-free-riding-rooftop-solar-pv/</link>
	<description>Clean Tech News &#38; Views: Solar Energy News. Wind Energy News. EV News. &#38; More.</description>
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		<title>By: Van-Otto</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/11/14/iea-sides-utilities-free-riding-rooftop-solar-pv/#comment-192006</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Van-Otto]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Nov 2013 01:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=58915#comment-192006</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is concern me, I recall an Australian saying that solar powered home that have the grid style connection are free loading on the network last year. One of the thing said, was that solar power on the network was carbon loading power stations costing other power network users without solar to pay. 

I agree with the  International Energy Agency that people are free riding  that why there needs to be a carbon base loading factor applied to solar powered home on the network.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is concern me, I recall an Australian saying that solar powered home that have the grid style connection are free loading on the network last year. One of the thing said, was that solar power on the network was carbon loading power stations costing other power network users without solar to pay. </p>
<p>I agree with the  International Energy Agency that people are free riding  that why there needs to be a carbon base loading factor applied to solar powered home on the network.</p>
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		<title>By: shecky vegas</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/11/14/iea-sides-utilities-free-riding-rooftop-solar-pv/#comment-191959</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[shecky vegas]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Nov 2013 17:26:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=58915#comment-191959</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[So, the answer apparently is to go off-grid and tell the utlities to suck it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, the answer apparently is to go off-grid and tell the utlities to suck it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: mike_dyke</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/11/14/iea-sides-utilities-free-riding-rooftop-solar-pv/#comment-191928</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[mike_dyke]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Nov 2013 11:55:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=58915#comment-191928</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I like the idea of splitting grid operation and electricity sales and would like to take the concept one stage further - the &quot;establish a fair price&quot; should be based on time of availability of that kWh. i.e. I want to sell the next kWh of electricity which I produce to the market, then I can either take the current price or put it into my own storage facility for later selling at a better price.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like the idea of splitting grid operation and electricity sales and would like to take the concept one stage further &#8211; the &#8220;establish a fair price&#8221; should be based on time of availability of that kWh. i.e. I want to sell the next kWh of electricity which I produce to the market, then I can either take the current price or put it into my own storage facility for later selling at a better price.</p>
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		<title>By: Fact</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/11/14/iea-sides-utilities-free-riding-rooftop-solar-pv/#comment-191875</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Fact]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Nov 2013 01:25:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=58915#comment-191875</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I dont know about that easy to do part- at least in Upstate NY]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I dont know about that easy to do part- at least in Upstate NY</p>
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		<title>By: Will E</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/11/14/iea-sides-utilities-free-riding-rooftop-solar-pv/#comment-191836</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Will E]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Nov 2013 21:24:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=58915#comment-191836</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[stop burning your dollars on fossil. be it utility, be it gas
put solar for your own production, and make money with it
buy an EV, heat the house with a heat pump, go all electric.
and use your own electricity  production.
make a lot of money for yourself
easy to do, easy to pay.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>stop burning your dollars on fossil. be it utility, be it gas<br />
put solar for your own production, and make money with it<br />
buy an EV, heat the house with a heat pump, go all electric.<br />
and use your own electricity  production.<br />
make a lot of money for yourself<br />
easy to do, easy to pay.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Bob_Wallace</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/11/14/iea-sides-utilities-free-riding-rooftop-solar-pv/#comment-191826</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob_Wallace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Nov 2013 19:50:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=58915#comment-191826</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yep.  Split grid operation and electricity sales into separate companies. Make the grid company-neutral so that any provider who complies with regulations can sell to end users.

Establish a fair price for each kWh shipped on the grid.  Those that use it the most can pay the most.  Being a monopoly grid prices will need to be set by a government agency.

Electricity sellers can set their rates based on their costs and bill accordingly.  That will create incentives to provide electricity at the lowest possible price.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yep.  Split grid operation and electricity sales into separate companies. Make the grid company-neutral so that any provider who complies with regulations can sell to end users.</p>
<p>Establish a fair price for each kWh shipped on the grid.  Those that use it the most can pay the most.  Being a monopoly grid prices will need to be set by a government agency.</p>
<p>Electricity sellers can set their rates based on their costs and bill accordingly.  That will create incentives to provide electricity at the lowest possible price.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Wark</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/11/14/iea-sides-utilities-free-riding-rooftop-solar-pv/#comment-191820</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brian Wark]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Nov 2013 19:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=58915#comment-191820</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Simplify the system, move to a system where the grid operator charges a monthly fee for grid connection. Residential or Commercial. That way the grid operator will be able to support the grid, and will get behind wind and solar, since they actually lower demand on there equipment. Now we have a system that would be equivalent to the phone company charging for every word you speak. This actually would be great for grid operator&#039;s that are concerned about their future, and they would have a more steady, predictable stream of revenue, which their bond holders would love. Why does a grid operator get more money when I crank my air conditioner, and none when I am gone for the weekend. They did no extra work, no different in their costs.
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Simplify the system, move to a system where the grid operator charges a monthly fee for grid connection. Residential or Commercial. That way the grid operator will be able to support the grid, and will get behind wind and solar, since they actually lower demand on there equipment. Now we have a system that would be equivalent to the phone company charging for every word you speak. This actually would be great for grid operator&#8217;s that are concerned about their future, and they would have a more steady, predictable stream of revenue, which their bond holders would love. Why does a grid operator get more money when I crank my air conditioner, and none when I am gone for the weekend. They did no extra work, no different in their costs.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob_Wallace</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/11/14/iea-sides-utilities-free-riding-rooftop-solar-pv/#comment-191809</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob_Wallace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Nov 2013 17:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=58915#comment-191809</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Good points but this one - &quot; more than half of the power is lost to the inefficiencies of the grid&quot; - is very incorrect.

US grid losses are more in the 7% range and falling.

eta: Grid losses in some countries can be high.  India suffers a lot of electricity theft, for example.  ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good points but this one &#8211; &#8221; more than half of the power is lost to the inefficiencies of the grid&#8221; &#8211; is very incorrect.</p>
<p>US grid losses are more in the 7% range and falling.</p>
<p>eta: Grid losses in some countries can be high.  India suffers a lot of electricity theft, for example.  </p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: JamesWimberley</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/11/14/iea-sides-utilities-free-riding-rooftop-solar-pv/#comment-191807</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JamesWimberley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Nov 2013 17:21:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=58915#comment-191807</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[How does the IEA get to the €300 a year in fixed costs, 43% of the total bill of the non-solar household?  What solar PV owners should reasonably pay is their share of the cost of the grid, plus maintaining backup capacity. What they should not have to pay for is the fixed costs of the dinosaur capacity they are making obsolete. Coal = bad investment = take the loss.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How does the IEA get to the €300 a year in fixed costs, 43% of the total bill of the non-solar household?  What solar PV owners should reasonably pay is their share of the cost of the grid, plus maintaining backup capacity. What they should not have to pay for is the fixed costs of the dinosaur capacity they are making obsolete. Coal = bad investment = take the loss.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Joe Morinville</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/11/14/iea-sides-utilities-free-riding-rooftop-solar-pv/#comment-191758</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Joe Morinville]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Nov 2013 14:22:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=58915#comment-191758</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[IEA neglects to give value to the time in which the solar is produced, its offset of needed grid expansion by reducing demand, its offset of maintenance costs and the compounded value of distributed generation.


Solar produces most of its power during grid Peak hours which cost the utility more than triple off peak power costs.  This cost is reflected in all rates for all rate classes.  Specifically in residential rates this cost is spread over all kWh charges levied on the consumer giving them a blended flat rate in most cases which is much higher than true off peak costs.  When Solar offsets this higher cost by pushing power back into the grid at peak times, the utility needs to purchase or produce less expensive energy during this peak period which is a net benefit to the utility and indirectly to the solar producers neighbors if the utility passes on the savings.  


Since the solar producer offsets their own power and provides peak demand load shedding for the utility, the need for power plant expansion, power line and transformer upgrades is diminished proportionally to the increase in distributed solar generation.  This is clearly evidenced in the mature German solar market.


The utility saves money by not needing to expand generation capacity or distribution volume and any ongoing maintenance of these assets.  



Since distributed solar is consumed on site, 1kWh is consumed for each kWh generated.  When the utility generates power miles away from the source of consumption, more than half of the power is lost to the inefficiencies of the grid itself meaning the utility must generate 2-4kWh for each kWh consumed.  Distributed solar has a multiplying effect on utility generation reduction.  


I am more than a little disappointed in the sliver of data that the IEA used to make this erroneous point.  It is woefully uninformed makes assumptions using a sliver of available data, all of which points to their premise.  The whole picture tells a very different story...the real story.  Solar is a net savings to the utility.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>IEA neglects to give value to the time in which the solar is produced, its offset of needed grid expansion by reducing demand, its offset of maintenance costs and the compounded value of distributed generation.</p>
<p>Solar produces most of its power during grid Peak hours which cost the utility more than triple off peak power costs.  This cost is reflected in all rates for all rate classes.  Specifically in residential rates this cost is spread over all kWh charges levied on the consumer giving them a blended flat rate in most cases which is much higher than true off peak costs.  When Solar offsets this higher cost by pushing power back into the grid at peak times, the utility needs to purchase or produce less expensive energy during this peak period which is a net benefit to the utility and indirectly to the solar producers neighbors if the utility passes on the savings.  </p>
<p>Since the solar producer offsets their own power and provides peak demand load shedding for the utility, the need for power plant expansion, power line and transformer upgrades is diminished proportionally to the increase in distributed solar generation.  This is clearly evidenced in the mature German solar market.</p>
<p>The utility saves money by not needing to expand generation capacity or distribution volume and any ongoing maintenance of these assets.  </p>
<p>Since distributed solar is consumed on site, 1kWh is consumed for each kWh generated.  When the utility generates power miles away from the source of consumption, more than half of the power is lost to the inefficiencies of the grid itself meaning the utility must generate 2-4kWh for each kWh consumed.  Distributed solar has a multiplying effect on utility generation reduction.  </p>
<p>I am more than a little disappointed in the sliver of data that the IEA used to make this erroneous point.  It is woefully uninformed makes assumptions using a sliver of available data, all of which points to their premise.  The whole picture tells a very different story&#8230;the real story.  Solar is a net savings to the utility.</p>
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		<title>By: mike_dyke</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/11/14/iea-sides-utilities-free-riding-rooftop-solar-pv/#comment-191738</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[mike_dyke]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Nov 2013 12:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=58915#comment-191738</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Their figures are probably correct for the first year, but what happens over the next few  years? Household B doesn&#039;t need to spend anything on their solar PV so make a massive saving.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Their figures are probably correct for the first year, but what happens over the next few  years? Household B doesn&#8217;t need to spend anything on their solar PV so make a massive saving.</p>
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