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	<title>Comments on: New Life For the &#8220;Green Weenie&#8221; Electric Locomotive</title>
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	<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/10/26/new-life-green-weenie-electric-locomotive/</link>
	<description>Clean Tech News &#38; Views: Solar Energy News. Wind Energy News. EV News. &#38; More.</description>
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		<title>By: rajanikanth v</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/10/26/new-life-green-weenie-electric-locomotive/#comment-226219</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[rajanikanth v]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2014 02:13:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=58279#comment-226219</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[that is just amazing]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>that is just amazing</p>
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		<title>By: NorthStands</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/10/26/new-life-green-weenie-electric-locomotive/#comment-206111</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[NorthStands]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jan 2014 14:50:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=58279#comment-206111</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[ID NS is so &quot;green&quot; why did they tear down all the electric catenary in the old PRR territory and replace their electric locomotives with diesel? That was a crime!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ID NS is so &#8220;green&#8221; why did they tear down all the electric catenary in the old PRR territory and replace their electric locomotives with diesel? That was a crime!</p>
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		<title>By: Billion003</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/10/26/new-life-green-weenie-electric-locomotive/#comment-192816</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Billion003]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Nov 2013 05:07:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=58279#comment-192816</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I concur.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I concur.</p>
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		<title>By: Billion003</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/10/26/new-life-green-weenie-electric-locomotive/#comment-192815</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Billion003]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Nov 2013 05:06:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=58279#comment-192815</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You should consider reading the technicals and details of Peterson&#039;s writings and reports over time.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You should consider reading the technicals and details of Peterson&#8217;s writings and reports over time.</p>
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		<title>By: jmrathbun</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/10/26/new-life-green-weenie-electric-locomotive/#comment-188894</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jmrathbun]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Oct 2013 21:03:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=58279#comment-188894</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I strongly suggest that people actually read Petersen&#039;s work before writing him off. There&#039;s a lot more to the NS program than discussed here, such as their improved long-haul locomotive development using Axion as a provider. He also mentions Axion&#039;s ongoing work with BMW and two other major auto manufacturers, various green power providers, the communications industry, and the ePower conversions of heavy diesel trucks to a hybrid system using Axion. He makes no secret of his holdings of Axion stock nor his previous executive experience there, and he has just accepted an executive position at ePower. He argues that if any of these projects hits, AXPW will likely rise well above his cost of acquisition. I&#039;m also a holder of AXPW, although not in as large quantity. I think those attacking Petersen should disclose their own relevant holdings.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I strongly suggest that people actually read Petersen&#8217;s work before writing him off. There&#8217;s a lot more to the NS program than discussed here, such as their improved long-haul locomotive development using Axion as a provider. He also mentions Axion&#8217;s ongoing work with BMW and two other major auto manufacturers, various green power providers, the communications industry, and the ePower conversions of heavy diesel trucks to a hybrid system using Axion. He makes no secret of his holdings of Axion stock nor his previous executive experience there, and he has just accepted an executive position at ePower. He argues that if any of these projects hits, AXPW will likely rise well above his cost of acquisition. I&#8217;m also a holder of AXPW, although not in as large quantity. I think those attacking Petersen should disclose their own relevant holdings.</p>
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		<title>By: JamesWimberley</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/10/26/new-life-green-weenie-electric-locomotive/#comment-188842</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JamesWimberley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Oct 2013 17:09:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=58279#comment-188842</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Having travelled the Trans-Sib by myself from China, I recommend it provided: 
- you either speak survival Russian or go in a small group with a Russian guide
- you don&#039;t need constant novelty, and can enjoy the vastness of more or less identical taiga landscape for hour after hour
-  you break the trip, especially at marvellous Lake Baikal, but I also enjoyed Omsk, Tobolsk, and Kazan.
One oddity is that all the train timetables are set to Moscow time, though the train crosses seven time zones.
I made a few blog posts, recapped here: http://www.samefacts.com/2007/06/international-affairs/russia/princess-zeka-trans-sib-6/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having travelled the Trans-Sib by myself from China, I recommend it provided:<br />
&#8211; you either speak survival Russian or go in a small group with a Russian guide<br />
&#8211; you don&#8217;t need constant novelty, and can enjoy the vastness of more or less identical taiga landscape for hour after hour<br />
&#8211;  you break the trip, especially at marvellous Lake Baikal, but I also enjoyed Omsk, Tobolsk, and Kazan.<br />
One oddity is that all the train timetables are set to Moscow time, though the train crosses seven time zones.<br />
I made a few blog posts, recapped here: <a href="http://www.samefacts.com/2007/06/international-affairs/russia/princess-zeka-trans-sib-6/" rel="nofollow">http://www.samefacts.com/2007/06/international-affairs/russia/princess-zeka-trans-sib-6/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Bob_Wallace</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/10/26/new-life-green-weenie-electric-locomotive/#comment-188639</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob_Wallace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Oct 2013 17:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=58279#comment-188639</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Long down times means lots of opportunity to keep charged.

Batteries for long distance trains are hard to imagine.  Better we start stretching wires as Russia did to convert the Trans-Siberian from fuel to electric.

“Along the route of the Trans-Siberian Railway, trains of oil tank cars extend across the landscape for miles.  Each tank car, black and tarry-looking, with its faded white markings, resembles the one that follows it... a trainload of these cars defines monotony.

The Trans-Siberian Railway covers 9,288 kilometers between Moscow and the Pacific port of Vladivostok, or 5,771 miles.  In other words, if it were twenty-one miles longer, it would be exactly twice as long as Interstate 80 from New Jersey to California.  Laying awake near the tracks  in some remote spot at night you hear trains going by all through the night with scarcely a pause.
…

(T)he Trans-Siberian Railway is all-electric, with overhead cables like a streetcar line - you find the tracks are empty of traffic only for five or ten minutes at a time.
...

Besides oil, the railway carries coal, machinery parts, giant tires, scrap iron, and endless containers … just like the containers stacked five stories high around the Port of Newark, New Jersey, and probably every other port in the world.”



Travels in Siberia by Ian Frazier (2010)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Long down times means lots of opportunity to keep charged.</p>
<p>Batteries for long distance trains are hard to imagine.  Better we start stretching wires as Russia did to convert the Trans-Siberian from fuel to electric.</p>
<p>“Along the route of the Trans-Siberian Railway, trains of oil tank cars extend across the landscape for miles.  Each tank car, black and tarry-looking, with its faded white markings, resembles the one that follows it&#8230; a trainload of these cars defines monotony.</p>
<p>The Trans-Siberian Railway covers 9,288 kilometers between Moscow and the Pacific port of Vladivostok, or 5,771 miles.  In other words, if it were twenty-one miles longer, it would be exactly twice as long as Interstate 80 from New Jersey to California.  Laying awake near the tracks  in some remote spot at night you hear trains going by all through the night with scarcely a pause.<br />
…</p>
<p>(T)he Trans-Siberian Railway is all-electric, with overhead cables like a streetcar line &#8211; you find the tracks are empty of traffic only for five or ten minutes at a time.<br />
&#8230;</p>
<p>Besides oil, the railway carries coal, machinery parts, giant tires, scrap iron, and endless containers … just like the containers stacked five stories high around the Port of Newark, New Jersey, and probably every other port in the world.”</p>
<p>Travels in Siberia by Ian Frazier (2010)</p>
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		<title>By: JMin2020</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/10/26/new-life-green-weenie-electric-locomotive/#comment-188612</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JMin2020]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Oct 2013 15:57:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=58279#comment-188612</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great Article Tina. Thanks for the post.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great Article Tina. Thanks for the post.</p>
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		<title>By: RobS</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/10/26/new-life-green-weenie-electric-locomotive/#comment-188570</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[RobS]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Oct 2013 13:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=58279#comment-188570</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Because its a free country and I chose to comment on Mr Petersen, just as your free to comment on whatever you wish to. Why don&#039;t you comment on battery locomotive&#039;s suitability for long hauls if that&#039;s what interests you?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Because its a free country and I chose to comment on Mr Petersen, just as your free to comment on whatever you wish to. Why don&#8217;t you comment on battery locomotive&#8217;s suitability for long hauls if that&#8217;s what interests you?</p>
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		<title>By: delbert3us</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/10/26/new-life-green-weenie-electric-locomotive/#comment-188564</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[delbert3us]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Oct 2013 12:48:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=58279#comment-188564</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Why not address &quot;Battery locomotives are not yet ready for long hauls&quot; instead of &quot;Peterson bashing&quot;?
If the ePower trucks can handle long hauls, there is no reason trains using the same type of configuration can&#039;t.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why not address &#8220;Battery locomotives are not yet ready for long hauls&#8221; instead of &#8220;Peterson bashing&#8221;?<br />
If the ePower trucks can handle long hauls, there is no reason trains using the same type of configuration can&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: arne-nl</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/10/26/new-life-green-weenie-electric-locomotive/#comment-188561</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[arne-nl]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Oct 2013 12:04:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=58279#comment-188561</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;The only way for EV&#039;s to be a threat to PbC are if we approach 100% EV penetration&quot;

Lithium-ion batteries come in many chemistries and variants. They can be attractive in stop-start applications if they come down in price. Do not forget the weight advantage of lithium-ion, which is probably not an issue in a locomotive. But car manufacturers are more and more focused on reducing weight, so a lithium battery might help.


The price reduction in my view is mostly a matter of economies of scale and commoditisation. That is where the EV manufacturers come in. They push the development of cheap, reliable large format lithium batteries. All chemistries will take advantage of that progress, not just the high energy density variants used in EV&#039;s. 

The way I see it is that lithium-ion will achieve the economies of scale and maturity to be the preferable choice in all automotive applications. But it is not there yet, and until that happens, there is narrow window of opportunity for Axion recoup their investments. That is why Petersen is so anxious: time is running out.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The only way for EV&#8217;s to be a threat to PbC are if we approach 100% EV penetration&#8221;</p>
<p>Lithium-ion batteries come in many chemistries and variants. They can be attractive in stop-start applications if they come down in price. Do not forget the weight advantage of lithium-ion, which is probably not an issue in a locomotive. But car manufacturers are more and more focused on reducing weight, so a lithium battery might help.</p>
<p>The price reduction in my view is mostly a matter of economies of scale and commoditisation. That is where the EV manufacturers come in. They push the development of cheap, reliable large format lithium batteries. All chemistries will take advantage of that progress, not just the high energy density variants used in EV&#8217;s. </p>
<p>The way I see it is that lithium-ion will achieve the economies of scale and maturity to be the preferable choice in all automotive applications. But it is not there yet, and until that happens, there is narrow window of opportunity for Axion recoup their investments. That is why Petersen is so anxious: time is running out.</p>
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		<title>By: RobS</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/10/26/new-life-green-weenie-electric-locomotive/#comment-188553</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[RobS]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Oct 2013 10:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=58279#comment-188553</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;What is the biggest threat to his lead-acid revival evangelism? Right, lithium-ion, cheap lithium-ion. &quot;
That&#039;s the bizarre thing, PbC are high power density low energy density battereis perfect for short term high power demands like microhybrid cars for engine stop-start and switching locomotives, they are completely unsuitable for EV&#039;s and even for hybrid vehicles. The only way for EV&#039;s to be a threat to PbC are if we approach 100% EV penetration which even the greatest EV zealot would not expect for several decades. These are technologies that can easily coexist, yet Petersen has set himself on an Us vs them religious crusade against EV&#039;s, alienating the very industry that could help promulgate Axion&#039;s technology.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;What is the biggest threat to his lead-acid revival evangelism? Right, lithium-ion, cheap lithium-ion. &#8221;<br />
That&#8217;s the bizarre thing, PbC are high power density low energy density battereis perfect for short term high power demands like microhybrid cars for engine stop-start and switching locomotives, they are completely unsuitable for EV&#8217;s and even for hybrid vehicles. The only way for EV&#8217;s to be a threat to PbC are if we approach 100% EV penetration which even the greatest EV zealot would not expect for several decades. These are technologies that can easily coexist, yet Petersen has set himself on an Us vs them religious crusade against EV&#8217;s, alienating the very industry that could help promulgate Axion&#8217;s technology.</p>
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		<title>By: arne-nl</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/10/26/new-life-green-weenie-electric-locomotive/#comment-188550</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[arne-nl]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Oct 2013 09:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=58279#comment-188550</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[He has quite a large portion of his fortune tied up in Axion, and has seen it whither away to almost nothing. He lost more than 90% of his investment.

What is the biggest threat to his lead-acid revival evangelism? Right, lithium-ion, cheap lithium-ion. Which company is pushing the development of cheap lithium-ion more than any other? Right. Tesla.

He has been consistently trying to talk up his own stock and talk down the competition. I see him as a pump-and-dump scammer trying to save his pension.

He once said that EV&#039;s are only for the &#039;philosophically committed and mathematically challenged&#039; and that he estimated there are 100,000 of those in the US. After selling an EV to each of those 100,000, the market would collapse and the EV disappear for good. Really, that is the level of absurdity that has become the norm in Petersen&#039;s universe. 


Numerous people have tried to warn him that his blind hatred led him to dismiss the reality of the fast progress in EV technology and underestimate it&#039;s potential. Reality is proving him wrong much quicker than he could have imagined and I could have hoped. But I don&#039;t think that will serve as a reality check for Mr. Petersen. He is &#039;economically committed and realism challenged&#039;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He has quite a large portion of his fortune tied up in Axion, and has seen it whither away to almost nothing. He lost more than 90% of his investment.</p>
<p>What is the biggest threat to his lead-acid revival evangelism? Right, lithium-ion, cheap lithium-ion. Which company is pushing the development of cheap lithium-ion more than any other? Right. Tesla.</p>
<p>He has been consistently trying to talk up his own stock and talk down the competition. I see him as a pump-and-dump scammer trying to save his pension.</p>
<p>He once said that EV&#8217;s are only for the &#8216;philosophically committed and mathematically challenged&#8217; and that he estimated there are 100,000 of those in the US. After selling an EV to each of those 100,000, the market would collapse and the EV disappear for good. Really, that is the level of absurdity that has become the norm in Petersen&#8217;s universe. </p>
<p>Numerous people have tried to warn him that his blind hatred led him to dismiss the reality of the fast progress in EV technology and underestimate it&#8217;s potential. Reality is proving him wrong much quicker than he could have imagined and I could have hoped. But I don&#8217;t think that will serve as a reality check for Mr. Petersen. He is &#8216;economically committed and realism challenged&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: RobS</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/10/26/new-life-green-weenie-electric-locomotive/#comment-188542</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[RobS]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Oct 2013 07:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=58279#comment-188542</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Switcher locomotives are also uniquely suited to electric motors, huge torque at very low speeds, low distances travelled per day, long down times between movements where electric engines only consume &quot;fuel&quot; whilst actually moving, the ability to recapture the energy of slowing the enormous amounts of mass they move around.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Switcher locomotives are also uniquely suited to electric motors, huge torque at very low speeds, low distances travelled per day, long down times between movements where electric engines only consume &#8220;fuel&#8221; whilst actually moving, the ability to recapture the energy of slowing the enormous amounts of mass they move around.</p>
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		<title>By: RobS</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/10/26/new-life-green-weenie-electric-locomotive/#comment-188541</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[RobS]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Oct 2013 07:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=58279#comment-188541</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Its a shame for Axion that their name is now so intertwined with John Petersen A man with such aggressive quasi-religious ant EV and particularly anti-Tesla viewpoints as well as a similarly almost theological opposition to solar and wind power. Don&#039;t take my word for it, have a read of some of his articles and comments. http://seekingalpha.com/author/john-petersen]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Its a shame for Axion that their name is now so intertwined with John Petersen A man with such aggressive quasi-religious ant EV and particularly anti-Tesla viewpoints as well as a similarly almost theological opposition to solar and wind power. Don&#8217;t take my word for it, have a read of some of his articles and comments. <a href="http://seekingalpha.com/author/john-petersen" rel="nofollow">http://seekingalpha.com/author/john-petersen</a></p>
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		<title>By: JamesWimberley</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/10/26/new-life-green-weenie-electric-locomotive/#comment-188486</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JamesWimberley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Oct 2013 18:35:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=58279#comment-188486</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The NS 999 is a switcher locomotive - what used to be called a shunting engine. Battery locomotives are not yet ready for long hauls. Still, it&#039;s progress. Stop-start is the most polluting use for diesel engines. You can of course also electrify the line with catenaries. The Trans-Siberian is electrified all the 6,100 miles from Moscow to Vladivostok, though the spur to Manchuria is not.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The NS 999 is a switcher locomotive &#8211; what used to be called a shunting engine. Battery locomotives are not yet ready for long hauls. Still, it&#8217;s progress. Stop-start is the most polluting use for diesel engines. You can of course also electrify the line with catenaries. The Trans-Siberian is electrified all the 6,100 miles from Moscow to Vladivostok, though the spur to Manchuria is not.</p>
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