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	<title>Comments on: Shell: Oil Is Not The Future Of Transportation</title>
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	<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/10/23/shell-oil-future-transportation/</link>
	<description>Clean Tech News &#38; Views: Solar Energy News. Wind Energy News. EV News. &#38; More.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2014 02:41:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Ivor O'Connor</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/10/23/shell-oil-future-transportation/#comment-189415</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ivor O'Connor]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Oct 2013 18:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=58116#comment-189415</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yep. However now Musk is testing a new engine called the &quot;raptor&quot; in Mississippi that will be methane based. http://i.space.com/images/i/000/002/445/i02/070507_methane_rocket_02.jpg?1292265630


Musk says &quot;The energy cost of methane is the lowest and it has a slight Isp (specific impulse) advantage over kerosene,” said Musk, adding that “it does not have the pain-in-the-ass factor that hydrogen has”


Apparently methane is the easiest to &quot;harvest&quot; off of Mars. Mars according to Musk is now possibly only 11 years off. (Best case scenario.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yep. However now Musk is testing a new engine called the &#8220;raptor&#8221; in Mississippi that will be methane based. <a href="http://i.space.com/images/i/000/002/445/i02/070507_methane_rocket_02.jpg?1292265630" rel="nofollow">http://i.space.com/images/i/000/002/445/i02/070507_methane_rocket_02.jpg?1292265630</a></p>
<p>Musk says &#8220;The energy cost of methane is the lowest and it has a slight Isp (specific impulse) advantage over kerosene,” said Musk, adding that “it does not have the pain-in-the-ass factor that hydrogen has”</p>
<p>Apparently methane is the easiest to &#8220;harvest&#8221; off of Mars. Mars according to Musk is now possibly only 11 years off. (Best case scenario.)</p>
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		<title>By: Bob_Wallace</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/10/23/shell-oil-future-transportation/#comment-189391</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob_Wallace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Oct 2013 16:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=58116#comment-189391</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Highly unlikely.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Highly unlikely.</p>
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		<title>By: Stacy Clarkson</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/10/23/shell-oil-future-transportation/#comment-189385</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Stacy Clarkson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Oct 2013 16:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=58116#comment-189385</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Natural gas is future of transportation....]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Natural gas is future of transportation&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Jouni Valkonen</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/10/23/shell-oil-future-transportation/#comment-188124</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jouni Valkonen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Oct 2013 00:25:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=58116#comment-188124</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes, there was no solar panels in space shuttle. But solar panels have improved quite significantly since 1970&#039;s when space shuttle was designed. Dragon spacecraft has solar panels.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, there was no solar panels in space shuttle. But solar panels have improved quite significantly since 1970&#8217;s when space shuttle was designed. Dragon spacecraft has solar panels.</p>
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		<title>By: Wayne Williamson</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/10/23/shell-oil-future-transportation/#comment-188123</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wayne Williamson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Oct 2013 23:57:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=58116#comment-188123</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The shuttle had fuel cells that worked with oxygen and hydrogen.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The shuttle had fuel cells that worked with oxygen and hydrogen.</p>
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		<title>By: Pieter Siegers</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/10/23/shell-oil-future-transportation/#comment-188101</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Pieter Siegers]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Oct 2013 19:34:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=58116#comment-188101</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think Shell is trying to let itself look like &#039;the good guy&#039; by saying it&#039;s moving away from oil and on the long run we&#039;ll use renewables (of course that must be), but in between they push LNG and that is just another fossil fuel. So once again they&#039;re just moving the problem ahead while the planet is getting hotter and wilder. Thanks for nothing Shell you don&#039;t fool me. You just want to secure your business, as usual. And now you&#039;re with your new friend Gazprom from Russia and they&#039;ve (and thus you also) busted 30 Greenpeacers in Murmansk protesting against Arctic drilling... seems like you two are trying to draw attention to &#039;bad oil&#039; while doing other business, and yes you&#039;re doing it (pushing LNG as hard as you can).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Shell is trying to let itself look like &#8216;the good guy&#8217; by saying it&#8217;s moving away from oil and on the long run we&#8217;ll use renewables (of course that must be), but in between they push LNG and that is just another fossil fuel. So once again they&#8217;re just moving the problem ahead while the planet is getting hotter and wilder. Thanks for nothing Shell you don&#8217;t fool me. You just want to secure your business, as usual. And now you&#8217;re with your new friend Gazprom from Russia and they&#8217;ve (and thus you also) busted 30 Greenpeacers in Murmansk protesting against Arctic drilling&#8230; seems like you two are trying to draw attention to &#8216;bad oil&#8217; while doing other business, and yes you&#8217;re doing it (pushing LNG as hard as you can).</p>
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		<title>By: Doug</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/10/23/shell-oil-future-transportation/#comment-188045</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Doug]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Oct 2013 13:25:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=58116#comment-188045</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It would be good if the media would pick up on the revelation that the large oil companies are forming a consensus that gasoline is being slowly phased out.  This would be a shock to many Americans.

The proposed replacement, hybrid H2 fuel cells, is a fantasy.  Transitioning from a gasoline to a H2-based infrastructure requires investment of trillions of dollars and capital investment.  Without huge subsidies, this transition will never occur.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It would be good if the media would pick up on the revelation that the large oil companies are forming a consensus that gasoline is being slowly phased out.  This would be a shock to many Americans.</p>
<p>The proposed replacement, hybrid H2 fuel cells, is a fantasy.  Transitioning from a gasoline to a H2-based infrastructure requires investment of trillions of dollars and capital investment.  Without huge subsidies, this transition will never occur.</p>
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		<title>By: Denis</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/10/23/shell-oil-future-transportation/#comment-188012</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Denis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Oct 2013 09:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=58116#comment-188012</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In my opinion the key point in Shell’s report is however their promotion of natural gas. I don’t think that it is oil-free economy that motivates Shell (one of the biggest oil companies in the world) to care about cleantech revolution, but rather trillions of dollars of natural gas market.  

Today there is a huge lobbing of LNG (liquefied natural gas) as a transport fuel, especially in Europe. LNG is not totally clean fuel, but it can completely cut sulphur emissions and reduce CO2 emissions by 20-25%. So, some leading energy companies have started to use these facts in order to promote natural gas as a short-term solution toward oil-free economy. 

There are even some regulations that have been recently approved to favor LNG development. For example, the     limits for sulphur content in marine fuels will be decreased from 1 % to 0.1 % from 1 January 2015 in Sulphur Emission Control Areas (SECAs) in the Baltic Sea, North Sea and English Channel. (It will concern about a half of 10000 ships currently engaged in intra-EU shipping). Sulphur limits will be also decreased from 3.5% to 0.5% globally from 1 January 2020. So, it will be required for ships to pass from heavy fuel oil to ultra-low sulphur marine gasoil or to LNG.

So, I think that on the way to oil-free transport, we will be obliged anyway to pass through intermediate semi-clean technologies favorable to oil companies.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my opinion the key point in Shell’s report is however their promotion of natural gas. I don’t think that it is oil-free economy that motivates Shell (one of the biggest oil companies in the world) to care about cleantech revolution, but rather trillions of dollars of natural gas market.  </p>
<p>Today there is a huge lobbing of LNG (liquefied natural gas) as a transport fuel, especially in Europe. LNG is not totally clean fuel, but it can completely cut sulphur emissions and reduce CO2 emissions by 20-25%. So, some leading energy companies have started to use these facts in order to promote natural gas as a short-term solution toward oil-free economy. </p>
<p>There are even some regulations that have been recently approved to favor LNG development. For example, the     limits for sulphur content in marine fuels will be decreased from 1 % to 0.1 % from 1 January 2015 in Sulphur Emission Control Areas (SECAs) in the Baltic Sea, North Sea and English Channel. (It will concern about a half of 10000 ships currently engaged in intra-EU shipping). Sulphur limits will be also decreased from 3.5% to 0.5% globally from 1 January 2020. So, it will be required for ships to pass from heavy fuel oil to ultra-low sulphur marine gasoil or to LNG.</p>
<p>So, I think that on the way to oil-free transport, we will be obliged anyway to pass through intermediate semi-clean technologies favorable to oil companies.</p>
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		<title>By: Jouni Valkonen</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/10/23/shell-oil-future-transportation/#comment-188007</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jouni Valkonen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Oct 2013 06:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=58116#comment-188007</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[He said that hydrogen is only good in rocket&#039;s upper stage fuel cells. However I find this remark odd, because I have not heard that fuel cells are used in spacecrafts. I guess that he confused them that ISS and other manned spacecrafts uses reverse fuel cells, where oxygen is generated by splitting water. 

Perhaps apollo era spacecrafts used fuel cells also for electricity generation. But today solar panels + batteries are superior.

Elon and SpaceX uses kerosene in launch vehicles and he has bashed hydrogen as a rocket fuel in other occasions. Elon thinks that methane is future of rocket fuel and SpaceX is already developing affordable methane rocket engine. Methane is cheaper than rocket grade kerosene.

He said that the both volumetric and joules per kg are worse even in the best case. So fuel cells will always be inferior even to today&#039;s Model S batteries. And Battery tech certainly won&#039;t stand still during the next few decades!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He said that hydrogen is only good in rocket&#8217;s upper stage fuel cells. However I find this remark odd, because I have not heard that fuel cells are used in spacecrafts. I guess that he confused them that ISS and other manned spacecrafts uses reverse fuel cells, where oxygen is generated by splitting water. </p>
<p>Perhaps apollo era spacecrafts used fuel cells also for electricity generation. But today solar panels + batteries are superior.</p>
<p>Elon and SpaceX uses kerosene in launch vehicles and he has bashed hydrogen as a rocket fuel in other occasions. Elon thinks that methane is future of rocket fuel and SpaceX is already developing affordable methane rocket engine. Methane is cheaper than rocket grade kerosene.</p>
<p>He said that the both volumetric and joules per kg are worse even in the best case. So fuel cells will always be inferior even to today&#8217;s Model S batteries. And Battery tech certainly won&#8217;t stand still during the next few decades!</p>
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		<title>By: Bob_Wallace</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/10/23/shell-oil-future-transportation/#comment-188004</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob_Wallace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Oct 2013 06:21:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=58116#comment-188004</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Naw, Elon says that hydrogen ground transportation is bullshit, but hydrogen is fine for rockets.

He bases his statement on the cost of building a hydrogen infrastructure along with EV batteries having higher energy density than hydrogen.  I&#039;m not sure if he&#039;s saying that batteries contain more energy per kg or if placing a fuel cell between energy storage and the electric motor makes it essentially so.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Naw, Elon says that hydrogen ground transportation is bullshit, but hydrogen is fine for rockets.</p>
<p>He bases his statement on the cost of building a hydrogen infrastructure along with EV batteries having higher energy density than hydrogen.  I&#8217;m not sure if he&#8217;s saying that batteries contain more energy per kg or if placing a fuel cell between energy storage and the electric motor makes it essentially so.</p>
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		<title>By: Jouni Valkonen</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/10/23/shell-oil-future-transportation/#comment-188003</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jouni Valkonen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Oct 2013 06:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=58116#comment-188003</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Elon Musk on &quot;hydrogen economy&quot;. Hydrogen is not suitable even for rocket fuel.

&lt;b&gt;Elon Musk Calls Hydrogen Fuel Cell Cars ‘Bullsh*t’&lt;/b&gt;
http://www.wired.com/autopia/2013/10/elon-musk-hydrogen/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Elon Musk on &#8220;hydrogen economy&#8221;. Hydrogen is not suitable even for rocket fuel.</p>
<p><b>Elon Musk Calls Hydrogen Fuel Cell Cars ‘Bullsh*t’</b><br />
<a href="http://www.wired.com/autopia/2013/10/elon-musk-hydrogen/" rel="nofollow">http://www.wired.com/autopia/2013/10/elon-musk-hydrogen/</a></p>
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