Comments on: 3 Reasons Germans Are Kicking Ass & Taking Names With Renewable Energy

By: Bob_Wallace

Bob_Wallace — Sun, 03 Nov 2013 16:01:00 +0000

I admit that I’m having a lot of difficulty understanding what you have been writing. English is not your first language?

Now, what do we know about the price of electricity in Germany?

Wholesale and industrial prices have been dropping thanks to more renewable generation in the system which is allowing utilities to purchase less fossil fuels.

There are a variety of taxes that retail customers pay but which are not charged to industrial customers. All the subsidy costs for renewables are charged to retail customers but none to industrial customers, even though industrial customers are benefiting from lowering wholesale costs.

The renewable subsidy is a small percentage of the tax addition put on the retail cost of electricity. 0.053 euros out of the total 0.179 euro energy tax.

If you want to complain about the retail cost of electricity in Germany, fine. But point your complaints toward the places where it belongs – toward industry which is not carrying its share of the load and toward non-renewable taxes.

By: autolycus3

autolycus3 — Sun, 03 Nov 2013 09:40:00 +0000

I really am beginning to think that you can’t read. The figures provided by E,ON show the cost elements in 1998.and 2012. Generation etc rose by 9% ; the other elements derived from the cost of renewables rose by 179%

This distribution of cost was also acknowledged by Denmark..
Don’t bother to reply. There are none so blind as those who refuse to see..

By: Bob_Wallace

Bob_Wallace — Sat, 02 Nov 2013 02:20:00 +0000

Well, were someone to lump all the taxes into the renewable bucket then they could blame renewables for the high price of electricity couldn’t they?
However that wouldn’t be right. German retail electricity prices were high due to taxes and quasi-monopolies long before renewables came on the scene.
From a 2009 Economist article about the high price of electricity:

“The main reason Germany’s electricity market is not working as it should is the lack of competition.”

“A second problem is that Germany’s biggest electricity generators also own the networks that distribute electricity. Critics argue that this gives them a huge advantage over independent producers…”

“… over the longer run, ambitious plans to increase the share of electricity from renewable sources may erode the dominance of the country’s four biggest electricity generators. Germany hopes to get as much as 30% of its electricity from renewable sources by 2020, and although few in the industry think the target will be met, there is nevertheless likely to be a huge investment in new generating capacity over the coming decades.”

http://www.economist.com/node/13527440

By: autolycus3

autolycus3 — Fri, 01 Nov 2013 22:41:00 +0000

I am not saying anything. I give you words and figures that you can see for yourself on the E.ON website. It shows simply that the cost to the consumer rose between 1998 and 2012 by 50.5%, and that there were two elements

Generation, supply etc
1998 E37.65
2012 E41.33 increase – 9.7%

VAT, renewable energy charge, power tax,Concession fee etc
1998 E12.25
2012 E34.18 increase – 179%

Those are the figures. Do I need to tell you that the substantial increase was not in generation and supply, but in the many and varied extra charges arising from the renewable element. There was a more comprehensive analysis in The Economist a few weeks ago that you should read. It also states that last year there was an increase in carbon emissions.

I am giving you reliable published figures – make of them what you will.

By: Bob_Wallace

Bob_Wallace — Fri, 01 Nov 2013 16:06:00 +0000

And at the same time wholesale and industrial electricity prices have been falling thanks to more renewables on Germany’s grids which allows them to spend less for fossil fuels.

If your point is that German retail customers are not being treated fairly because they are being asked to pay all the costs for renewable installations while industrial customers pay none of the costs but enjoy decreasing cost, it’s a valid one.

If that’s not what you’re saying, I’m not understanding you.

By: Bob_Wallace

Bob_Wallace — Fri, 01 Nov 2013 16:06:00 +0000

What exactly is your point?

By: A Real Libertarian

A Real Libertarian — Fri, 01 Nov 2013 12:27:00 +0000

Again… 2008?

And how much is the renewable energy charge compared to the rest?

By: autolycus3

autolycus3 — Fri, 01 Nov 2013 12:21:00 +0000

The price of gas is given with those dates by E.ON not me.
The relevant figures, which you choose to ignore, give the striking contrast between increase in cost of generation and supply at 9% and those of the ancillary charges.at 179%.

By: A Real Libertarian

A Real Libertarian — Fri, 01 Nov 2013 10:46:00 +0000

You are seriously compering:
1998-2012, 1998-2012, 1998-2012 and 2008-2012?

By: autolycus3

autolycus3 — Fri, 01 Nov 2013 09:36:00 +0000

Taken from E.ON balance sheeti

Charge to consumer
1998 E49.90
2012 E75.12 increase of 50.5 %

Generation, supply etc
1998 E37.65
2012 E41.33 increase – 9.7%

VAT, renewable energy charge, power tax,Concession fee etc
1998 E12.25
2012 E34.18 increase – 179%

In the same report they say the the price of gas fell.
Taking 2005 price as 100.
2008 – 132
2011 – 124.

By: Bob_Wallace

Bob_Wallace — Thu, 31 Oct 2013 22:31:00 +0000

But that’s not true. Only a portion of the cost spread between the retail price of 0.265 euros and the wholesale price of 0.086 euros in Germany is due to renewable subsidies. Out of the 0.179 euro difference only 0.053 is due to renewable subsidies. About one third.

By: autolycus3

autolycus3 — Thu, 31 Oct 2013 21:38:00 +0000

This makes clear that the substantial increase in the charge was due largely to the peripheral costs imposed on the company, largely in support of the vast wind source. This is also true of the high charge in Denmark, the most costly in the EU zone..

By: Bob_Wallace

Bob_Wallace — Thu, 31 Oct 2013 16:41:00 +0000

What’s your point?

By: autolycus3

autolycus3 — Thu, 31 Oct 2013 16:35:00 +0000

The E.ON website reveals the following:
It give the increase in charge to the average German household between 1998 and 2012 at about 50%
It also breaks down the two elements. Generation, storage and supply rose by 9%.
Carbon tax, VAT, Power tax etc rose by 179%..

http://www.eon.com/content/dam/eon-com/ueber-uns/Facts%20and%20Figures%202013.pdf

By: Bob_Wallace

Bob_Wallace — Thu, 31 Oct 2013 15:52:00 +0000

Change rarely follows a straight line.

Take a look at the graph below. It only goes to 2010 but you can see that there are multiple times that on a year to year basis CO2 levels rose in German since their peak, but overall emissions continue downward.

Germany continues to install wind and solar. Their CO2 emission levels will continue to fall.

We should all be doing as well as Germany.

By: autolycus3

autolycus3 — Thu, 31 Oct 2013 14:03:00 +0000

Carbon emission actually rose last year.

Take a look at this site

http://www.eon.com/content/dam/eon-com/ueber-uns/Facts%20and%20Figures%202013.pdf

By: phrasing

phrasing — Tue, 29 Oct 2013 00:30:00 +0000

I hope that was a joke, as your statement could be read to be quite insulting.

By: Bob_Wallace

Bob_Wallace — Mon, 28 Oct 2013 03:50:00 +0000

You’ve used up your silly allowance for the day.

Now brush your teeth and go to bed….

By: phrasing

phrasing — Mon, 28 Oct 2013 03:43:00 +0000

“We have to go to extraordinary lengths to protect ourselves from nuclear energy.”

Which makes nuclear extraordinarily safe compared to most other sources of energy.

By: Bob_Wallace

Bob_Wallace — Mon, 28 Oct 2013 02:55:00 +0000

Nuclear certainly hasn’t killed anything like the numbers killed by coal but that does not mean that nuclear is safe. It clearly is not. We have to go to extraordinary lengths to protect ourselves from nuclear energy.