TESLA calls the Netherlands site a reassembly center. Sorry if that bothers you.

If Tesla’s residuals weren’t risky, they’d be insured. They’re not.

Fact is, ICE routinely run 200K without major issues. That’s not just Honda and Toyota.

I NEVER said Tesla’s guaranteed value plan was a bad idea. I said it was risky. I said it was a gamble. I said they took the risk to keep the assembly line running without hiccups. Check your reading comprehension.

I’m amazed the two banks allowed it. They’re holding the bag in a worst case instance. And BOTH of them have experience huge residual losses in the past. The powers at Tesala AND the banks had no numbers to crank because Tesla and EVs have no track record. It was all a SWAG. Yes, keeping the assembly line running without hiccups is good business.

Tesla’s numbers in Germany were running behind Tesla’s own projections and were disappointing ESPECIALLY after they had done so well in other European countries.

Tesla aced their NHTSA crash test, probably the best result so far. It will take million of miles to make the determination that Tesla is the safest car ever. At some point EVs might have to be tested differently, looking for vulnerabilities conventional vehicles don’t have. That determination isn’t made from initial crash testing, although you seem to have jumped to that conclusion. But then you seem to be a blind sycophant.

Over and OUT.

When you’ve got someone posting BS and then multiple “other people” backing them up it’s a real PITA. I end up spending a lot of time fact-checking.

I had to look that up. Do you get much of that?

eta: Spamming and sock puppetry…..

The guarantee program is not risky in any way, shape, form, if you read it closely.

“As I’ve said often, I am rooting for them. That doesn’t mean I am a blind sycophant.” And that is why I value your posts.

“And if the owners [of] this site have a problem with me, I’m sure they will let me know.” Bob is the moderator of this site and he has made it clear twice now that he has a problem with all caps. He really does. It’s amazing. Want to grind his gears. Use caps. Works every time. lol.

“The electronics are FAR from trouble free.” Very true. I myself think the more electronics the more to go wrong.

“After ten years, the current battery pack is shot, with degradation taking place from the get go.” Again very true. Or I think it true. Others may disagree. However I did say the packs would need upgrading and in 10 years we are likely to see packs that hold 190 kWh.

” A current ICE runs to 200K with few if any problems.” This is total BS. Go directly to jail. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200.

Seems like these Model S’ are going to be a pain. Imagine the poor owner who gets their car keyed in the parking lot. Or bumped with a cart. Or all the other things. Wrapping up your persona around an Apple product was bad enough. Now normal common sense agnostics are getting infected with these Tesla cars. They are the future but people need to get a grip and hold on to reality.

Does that pass muster with you?

I really don’t care what you wish to call the Netherlands plant/operation. You were making a case that Tesla was not expanding their manufacturing to other countries and I pointed out to you that they already have.

Now, what are the sales numbers in Germany? You are claiming that they are “lagging”. Most people would take that to mean that the numbers have fallen over time. Or are you using the word in a different way?

You think Tesla’s price guarantee is a bad idea. You’re entitled to your opinion. I think it’s an interesting idea and I’m entitled to mine. And Tesla is allowed to operate their business in the fashion they think appropriate.

I suspect that after several months they noticed that some potential buyers were backing away based on a concern of resale value. And the powers that be at Tesla cranked through the numbers and decided that setting a price floor would be good business.

As I’ve said often, I am rooting for them. That doesn’t mean I am a blind sycophant.

And if the owners have this site have a problem with me, I’m sure they will let me know.

“In some European countries – Iceland and Norway – the Tesla Model S is doing quite well. In others, according to the International Business Times, early indications are that interest in the world’s best-selling luxury EV are a bit muted.

The numbers from IBT indicate that Tesla’s sales in Norway hit 801 in the first two months of availability. In Holland, Denmark and Germany it was just 531 – for all three. There were 348 sold in Holland and 85 in Denmark those first two months.

That leaves 98 sold in Germany in those two months, quite a ways behind the country’s best-selling EVs. The Smart ED sold 146 units in Germany just in September, and even the Renault Zoe and the Nissan Leaf outsold the Model S that month. Those two EVs sold 57 and 55 units, respectively.”

http://green.autoblog.com/2013/10/21/tesla-model-s-sales-in-germany-lag-behind-leaf-zoe-smart-ed/

Should one be surprised that more moderate priced EVs were sold than were luxury models?

Of course you ignore good sales in other European countries, which happen to be more EV ready.

And you ignore the fact that US sales are fine, with first quarter sales exceeding predictions.

“Tesla Motors announced today that sales of its Model S vehicle exceeded the target provided in the mid-February shareholder letter. As customers who note their Model S serial number this weekend will realize, vehicle deliveries (sales) exceeded 4,750 units vs. the 4,500 unit prior outlook.”

http://www.teslamotors.com/about/press/releases/tesla-model-s-sales-exceed-target

And the fact that second quarter sales were strong. Stronger than predicted.

” For the quarter, Tesla reported 5,150 Model S
electric sedan deliveries — which beat the automaker’s expectation of 4,500 deliveries.

Also notable is that Tesla’s production rate increased 25 percent to almost 500 vehicles per week (up from 400 previously). Tesla sold 10,500Model S sedans in the first six months of 2013 and plans to reach a rate of 40,000 annually by late 2014.

For the third quarter, Tesla expects to deliver slightly over 5,000
Model S’ and a total of 21,000 worldwide for the whole year.”

http://www.dailytech.com/Tesla+Motors+Posts+Surprise+Profit+Beats+Model+S+Sales+Goal+for+Second+Quarter/article33132.htm

Sorry, David, subdued sales in one of several countries does not support your “fears” that Tesla is failing and had to take on great risk in order to keep their factory humming.

Why not create the best car company in the world? The one that produces the best EVs, the safest cars, and the cars with the highest owner satisfaction? Tesla does things other companies do not.

Will they win out in the end? Only time will determine that. So far the decisions they have made are quite impressive.

Checking Wiki –

On May 20, 2010, Tesla Motors and Toyota announced a partnership to work on electric vehicle development and collaborate on the “development of electric vehicles, parts, and production system and engineering support”. This included Tesla’s partial purchase of the former NUMMI site, mainly consisting of the factory building,[11] [12] for $42 million.

Apparently Tesla owns the factory building, but not the entire site. Recently they purchased the test track so perhaps they now own the entire site. That is not clear.

Tesla has an operation in Europe. If you need to call it a “reassembly” plant rather than an assembly plant in order to win an argument, or whatever it is that motivates you, then let’s call it a reassembly plant.
Truthfully, David, I’m tired of dealing with you. I just don’t find your agenda either interesting or helpful in understanding the larger issues.
Tesla is running their business in ways which you apparently do not agree. BFD. Tesla is producing a very widely admired product and you are not.

Tesla doesn’t need to negotiate with anyone about Fremont. They own it.

The Tilburg site as a reassembly center. The cars are built in Fremont, disassembled and shipped to Tilburg for reassembly.

It is common knowledge that the Autobahn configuration is to address lagging sales in Germany.

RE: “ICEVs don’t make it to 200k without piling up repair costs.”

And you know that HOW?

Yes, there is a lot of spare space in the old Toyota factory in Fremont. Apparently Tesla has been in discussion about expanding into some of it.

At the same time Tesla has been discussing new factories in Europe and Asia as well as a new assembly plant somewhere in the Southwest.

They’ve already opened a small assembly plant in Tilburg, Netherlands.

Sales have “lagged” in Germany? Tesla is in the process of installing superchargers all over the country. Doesn’t sound to me that Tesla has any German issues.

Tesla is reconfiguring the S for the Autobahn.

Facts on the ground. Its a common thing, not rare at all. It makes no difference if you believe it or not.

RE: “11.5 year average life x 13,000 average miles = 150k. Not that many
cars are reaching 200k before they take a trip to the crusher.”

The AVERAGE car on the road is 11.5 years old. MANY cars reach 200K before their useful life ends. These aren’t my numbers. You can look them up. BTW, engines aren’t rebuilt these days, they are replaced with a used engine. Engine failure is unusual these days.