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	<title>Comments on: A Cleaner Future For China Lays Ahead</title>
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	<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/09/02/a-cleaner-future-for-china-lays-ahead/</link>
	<description>Clean Tech News &#38; Views: Solar Energy News. Wind Energy News. EV News. &#38; More.</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Bob_Wallace</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/09/02/a-cleaner-future-for-china-lays-ahead/#comment-183967</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob_Wallace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Sep 2013 16:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=55939#comment-183967</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t have any disagreement with you in terms of using gas in place of coal.

If the gas industry stops (greatly minimizes) its leaks.

But rather than looking for new places to use gas we should be looking for places we can go from petroleum to renewable electricity.  Many of our trains already run on electricity, we generate that electricity on board with diesel generators.  We could, as well, pull the electricity from overhead wires as much of the rest of the world does.

Then, when we look at replacing a coal plant, first calculate how much of the capacity can be replaced with renewables.  Add the wind, solar and geothermal that makes sense and then fill in with NG.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t have any disagreement with you in terms of using gas in place of coal.</p>
<p>If the gas industry stops (greatly minimizes) its leaks.</p>
<p>But rather than looking for new places to use gas we should be looking for places we can go from petroleum to renewable electricity.  Many of our trains already run on electricity, we generate that electricity on board with diesel generators.  We could, as well, pull the electricity from overhead wires as much of the rest of the world does.</p>
<p>Then, when we look at replacing a coal plant, first calculate how much of the capacity can be replaced with renewables.  Add the wind, solar and geothermal that makes sense and then fill in with NG.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: ShaleGasExpert</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/09/02/a-cleaner-future-for-china-lays-ahead/#comment-183949</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ShaleGasExpert]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Sep 2013 12:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=55939#comment-183949</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[While the news from BNEF is welcome, it&#039;s perhaps out of date.  A report September 4 from Citi &quot;The Unimaginable: Peak Coal in China&quot; says the penetration of natural gas, renewables, new nuclear, efficiency and a switch from a less energy intensive economy to a services led one,  all combined with the political imperative to reduce air pollution, will combine to achieve 1 Billion tons less of CO2, not in 2027, but by 2020.


This isn&#039;t unabashed good news for everyone of course, and Bloomberg NEF my be a case of someone more worried about their business model disappearing than CO2 reducing.  Removing China&#039;s1 billion tonnes, which isn&#039;t too far off the entire coal capacity of most of the EU,  highlights how inconsequential European efforts are.  EU targets of 80% decarb, which were unlikely to be ever achieved by 2050, can now be replaced with more realistic targets of 50% by 2030.  Let&#039;s remember that 1 trillion tons of carbon is the maximum burn by 2040 according to the IPCC.  Let&#039;s use as little carbon as possible, as soon as possible.  The logical choice is to pragmatically use gas instead of coal, instead of spinning coal out in the hope something else will come along that&#039;s perfect, but currently unachievable economically, politically or physically.  That describes the current state of play of nuclear, renewables, energy storage and CCS.
What would appear to be achievable by 2040 are even more savings from substituting not only gas for coal, but gas for oil in marine, trucking railroad and mining internal combustion.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While the news from BNEF is welcome, it&#8217;s perhaps out of date.  A report September 4 from Citi &#8220;The Unimaginable: Peak Coal in China&#8221; says the penetration of natural gas, renewables, new nuclear, efficiency and a switch from a less energy intensive economy to a services led one,  all combined with the political imperative to reduce air pollution, will combine to achieve 1 Billion tons less of CO2, not in 2027, but by 2020.</p>
<p>This isn&#8217;t unabashed good news for everyone of course, and Bloomberg NEF my be a case of someone more worried about their business model disappearing than CO2 reducing.  Removing China&#8217;s1 billion tonnes, which isn&#8217;t too far off the entire coal capacity of most of the EU,  highlights how inconsequential European efforts are.  EU targets of 80% decarb, which were unlikely to be ever achieved by 2050, can now be replaced with more realistic targets of 50% by 2030.  Let&#8217;s remember that 1 trillion tons of carbon is the maximum burn by 2040 according to the IPCC.  Let&#8217;s use as little carbon as possible, as soon as possible.  The logical choice is to pragmatically use gas instead of coal, instead of spinning coal out in the hope something else will come along that&#8217;s perfect, but currently unachievable economically, politically or physically.  That describes the current state of play of nuclear, renewables, energy storage and CCS.<br />
What would appear to be achievable by 2040 are even more savings from substituting not only gas for coal, but gas for oil in marine, trucking railroad and mining internal combustion.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Bob_Wallace</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/09/02/a-cleaner-future-for-china-lays-ahead/#comment-179887</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob_Wallace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Sep 2013 04:03:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=55939#comment-179887</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Was wondering when the decision to build this reactor was made.  Turns out 2004 was when construction started.  That is, obviously, long before wind and solar became cheaper than new nuclear.

&quot;The Indira Gandhi Centre for Atomic Research(IGCAR) is responsible for the design of this reactor. As of 2007 the
reactor was expected to begin functioning in 2010.[2]As of April 2011, it was expected to be commissioned in 2012. [3]As of July 2012, it was expected to begin operations in 2013.As of February 2013, it was expected to begin operations in September 2014.[4]Total costs, originally estimated at 3500 crore (35 billion) Rupees are now estimated at 5,677 crore (56 billion) Rs.&quot;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prototype_Fast_Breeder_Reactor

And while looking I ran across this bit that was news to me...

&quot;Some news agencies stated that in 2012, the Department of Atomic Energy for the first time admitted that the deaths of some employees and their dependents at the Kalpakkam nuclear site were caused by multiple myeloma, a rare form of bone marrow cancer linked to nuclear radiation.
The DAE acknowledged that nine people, including three employees working at the Madras Atomic Power Station at Kalpakkam died of multiple myeloma and bone cancer between 1995 and 2011. This information came to light in response to a Right to Information (RTI) inquiry from October 2011. The DAE had previously stonewalled all previous requests for information.[5]BARC director R K Sinha dismissed press reports regarding cancer deaths around the Kalpakkam atomic power plant near Chennai caused by radiation as baseless.[6] &quot;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madras_Atomic_Power_Station

It will be interesting to see how India decides to spend its money going forward.




 ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Was wondering when the decision to build this reactor was made.  Turns out 2004 was when construction started.  That is, obviously, long before wind and solar became cheaper than new nuclear.</p>
<p>&#8220;The Indira Gandhi Centre for Atomic Research(IGCAR) is responsible for the design of this reactor. As of 2007 the<br />
reactor was expected to begin functioning in 2010.[2]As of April 2011, it was expected to be commissioned in 2012. [3]As of July 2012, it was expected to begin operations in 2013.As of February 2013, it was expected to begin operations in September 2014.[4]Total costs, originally estimated at 3500 crore (35 billion) Rupees are now estimated at 5,677 crore (56 billion) Rs.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prototype_Fast_Breeder_Reactor" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prototype_Fast_Breeder_Reactor</a></p>
<p>And while looking I ran across this bit that was news to me&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8220;Some news agencies stated that in 2012, the Department of Atomic Energy for the first time admitted that the deaths of some employees and their dependents at the Kalpakkam nuclear site were caused by multiple myeloma, a rare form of bone marrow cancer linked to nuclear radiation.<br />
The DAE acknowledged that nine people, including three employees working at the Madras Atomic Power Station at Kalpakkam died of multiple myeloma and bone cancer between 1995 and 2011. This information came to light in response to a Right to Information (RTI) inquiry from October 2011. The DAE had previously stonewalled all previous requests for information.[5]BARC director R K Sinha dismissed press reports regarding cancer deaths around the Kalpakkam atomic power plant near Chennai caused by radiation as baseless.[6] &#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madras_Atomic_Power_Station" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madras_Atomic_Power_Station</a></p>
<p>It will be interesting to see how India decides to spend its money going forward.</p>
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		<title>By: JohnHartshorn</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/09/02/a-cleaner-future-for-china-lays-ahead/#comment-179886</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JohnHartshorn]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Sep 2013 03:51:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=55939#comment-179886</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[And don&#039;t overlook India either. The economics still seem to favor nuclear there as evidenced by this note affirming a start up date of September 2014 for the worlds&#039; first Thorium breeder reactor to be installed as part of a power grid. In time, the potential of Thorium will dwarf uranium as a nuclear fuel and India has an abundance. http://www.telegraphindia.com/1130903/jsp/nation/story_17305278.jsp]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And don&#8217;t overlook India either. The economics still seem to favor nuclear there as evidenced by this note affirming a start up date of September 2014 for the worlds&#8217; first Thorium breeder reactor to be installed as part of a power grid. In time, the potential of Thorium will dwarf uranium as a nuclear fuel and India has an abundance. <a href="http://www.telegraphindia.com/1130903/jsp/nation/story_17305278.jsp" rel="nofollow">http://www.telegraphindia.com/1130903/jsp/nation/story_17305278.jsp</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Bob_Wallace</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/09/02/a-cleaner-future-for-china-lays-ahead/#comment-179871</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob_Wallace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Sep 2013 01:13:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=55939#comment-179871</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I would advise you bet nothing more than pocket change on that prediction.


Since China put together its earlier nuclear plans the price of wind and solar generation has greatly fallen.  It&#039;s a brand new economic environment in which nuclear is getting shoved aside.


The leaders of China do numbers very well.  They know how to calculate both the cost per kWh and the amount of time needed to bring new generation on line.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would advise you bet nothing more than pocket change on that prediction.</p>
<p>Since China put together its earlier nuclear plans the price of wind and solar generation has greatly fallen.  It&#8217;s a brand new economic environment in which nuclear is getting shoved aside.</p>
<p>The leaders of China do numbers very well.  They know how to calculate both the cost per kWh and the amount of time needed to bring new generation on line.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: JohnHartshorn</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/09/02/a-cleaner-future-for-china-lays-ahead/#comment-179861</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JohnHartshorn]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Sep 2013 23:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=55939#comment-179861</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;In China, now with 15 operating reactors on the mainland, the country is well 
into the next phase of its nuclear power program. Some 26 reactors are 
under construction and many more are likely to be so in 2012. Those 
under construction include the world&#039;s first Westinghouse AP1000 units, 
and a demonstration high-temperature gas-cooled reactor plant is due to 
start construction. Many more units are planned, with construction due 
to start within three years. But most capacity under construction is the
 largely indigenous CPR-1000 design. China aims at least to quadruple 
its nuclear capacity from that operating and under construction by 2020.&quot;

http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/Current-and-Future-Generation/Plans-For-New-Reactors-Worldwide/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;In China, now with 15 operating reactors on the mainland, the country is well<br />
into the next phase of its nuclear power program. Some 26 reactors are<br />
under construction and many more are likely to be so in 2012. Those<br />
under construction include the world&#8217;s first Westinghouse AP1000 units,<br />
and a demonstration high-temperature gas-cooled reactor plant is due to<br />
start construction. Many more units are planned, with construction due<br />
to start within three years. But most capacity under construction is the<br />
 largely indigenous CPR-1000 design. China aims at least to quadruple<br />
its nuclear capacity from that operating and under construction by 2020.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/Current-and-Future-Generation/Plans-For-New-Reactors-Worldwide/" rel="nofollow">http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/Current-and-Future-Generation/Plans-For-New-Reactors-Worldwide/</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Guest</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/09/02/a-cleaner-future-for-china-lays-ahead/#comment-179745</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Guest]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Sep 2013 03:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=55939#comment-179745</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I imagine you meant to say &quot;... believe yourself ...&quot;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I imagine you meant to say &#8220;&#8230; believe yourself &#8230;&#8221;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bob_Wallace</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/09/02/a-cleaner-future-for-china-lays-ahead/#comment-179736</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob_Wallace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Sep 2013 02:37:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=55939#comment-179736</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The science is doing just fine.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The science is doing just fine.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jim Nelson</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/09/02/a-cleaner-future-for-china-lays-ahead/#comment-179721</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jim Nelson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Sep 2013 00:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=55939#comment-179721</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;lays ahead&quot;?
&quot;belief themselves&quot;?
&quot;the world’s largest power generator (and subsequently, the world’s largest carbon emitter)&quot;?

Though you, dear Joshua, may belief yourself to be a competent writer in your mother tongue, more gentle mockery may lay ahead for you, as a subsequence of, let&#039;s say, the limited editing applied to articles published in CleanTechnica.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;lays ahead&#8221;?<br />
&#8220;belief themselves&#8221;?<br />
&#8220;the world’s largest power generator (and subsequently, the world’s largest carbon emitter)&#8221;?</p>
<p>Though you, dear Joshua, may belief yourself to be a competent writer in your mother tongue, more gentle mockery may lay ahead for you, as a subsequence of, let&#8217;s say, the limited editing applied to articles published in CleanTechnica.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Steeple</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/09/02/a-cleaner-future-for-china-lays-ahead/#comment-179700</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steeple]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Sep 2013 22:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=55939#comment-179700</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Don&#039;t worry; we&#039;re doing our part even if the Settled Science seems a bit wobbly.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t worry; we&#8217;re doing our part even if the Settled Science seems a bit wobbly.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: JamesWimberley</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/09/02/a-cleaner-future-for-china-lays-ahead/#comment-179693</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JamesWimberley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Sep 2013 22:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=55939#comment-179693</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Chinese environmental protesters risk quite a lot more when they take to the streets of Kunming (or Ningbo or Dalian or Qidong or  Guangzhou) than you do sneering at their efforts and Al Gore´s. ¨What did you do  in the climate war, Grandpa?¨ Scribbling for the wrong side.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chinese environmental protesters risk quite a lot more when they take to the streets of Kunming (or Ningbo or Dalian or Qidong or  Guangzhou) than you do sneering at their efforts and Al Gore´s. ¨What did you do  in the climate war, Grandpa?¨ Scribbling for the wrong side.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Kevin McGinnis</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/09/02/a-cleaner-future-for-china-lays-ahead/#comment-179690</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kevin McGinnis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Sep 2013 22:07:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=55939#comment-179690</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[China&#039;s stride towards a cleaner future needs  to happen if they don&#039;t want to be known as the country with,by far,  the worst air pollution.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>China&#8217;s stride towards a cleaner future needs  to happen if they don&#8217;t want to be known as the country with,by far,  the worst air pollution.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Steeple</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/09/02/a-cleaner-future-for-china-lays-ahead/#comment-179688</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steeple]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Sep 2013 21:37:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=55939#comment-179688</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[We&#039;re both trying to get to the truth, Bob.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We&#8217;re both trying to get to the truth, Bob.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bob_Wallace</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/09/02/a-cleaner-future-for-china-lays-ahead/#comment-179679</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob_Wallace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Sep 2013 20:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=55939#comment-179679</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Do you get up in the morning thinking about how to be obnoxious during the coming day or does it come to you spontaneously?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you get up in the morning thinking about how to be obnoxious during the coming day or does it come to you spontaneously?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Steeple</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/09/02/a-cleaner-future-for-china-lays-ahead/#comment-179674</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steeple]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Sep 2013 20:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=55939#comment-179674</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Our Emissions here in the US are in decline. Meanwhile China&#039;s are expected to peak in 2027? Maybe Fat Al should spend a little time preaching to the Chinese. Oh, that would require courage? I guess saving the world isn&#039;t that important then, is it?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Our Emissions here in the US are in decline. Meanwhile China&#8217;s are expected to peak in 2027? Maybe Fat Al should spend a little time preaching to the Chinese. Oh, that would require courage? I guess saving the world isn&#8217;t that important then, is it?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: JamesWimberley</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/09/02/a-cleaner-future-for-china-lays-ahead/#comment-179632</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JamesWimberley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Sep 2013 17:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=55939#comment-179632</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Is a growth path for coal of 38 GW a year politically sustainable in China? Air pollution is already a major headache for the oligarchy, which will do anything to stop it turning into a real threat to its survival. ¨Anything¨ here includes radical measures like halting growth in electricity consumption. Doubling wind and solar targets yet again will look like the easy option.


Nuclear is irrelevant to the dilemma, simply because the plants take too long to build. There is no such thing as a nuclear crash programme.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is a growth path for coal of 38 GW a year politically sustainable in China? Air pollution is already a major headache for the oligarchy, which will do anything to stop it turning into a real threat to its survival. ¨Anything¨ here includes radical measures like halting growth in electricity consumption. Doubling wind and solar targets yet again will look like the easy option.</p>
<p>Nuclear is irrelevant to the dilemma, simply because the plants take too long to build. There is no such thing as a nuclear crash programme.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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