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	<title>Comments on: Floating Offshore Wind Turbines Could Meet EU Electricity Demands 4x Over, According To New Report</title>
	<atom:link href="http://cleantechnica.com/2013/07/31/floating-offshore-wind-turbines-could-meet-eu-electricity-demands-four-times-over-according-to-new-report/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/07/31/floating-offshore-wind-turbines-could-meet-eu-electricity-demands-four-times-over-according-to-new-report/</link>
	<description>Clean Tech News &#38; Views: Solar Energy News. Wind Energy News. EV News. &#38; More.</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Bob_Wallace</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/07/31/floating-offshore-wind-turbines-could-meet-eu-electricity-demands-four-times-over-according-to-new-report/#comment-174880</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob_Wallace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Aug 2013 06:35:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=54476#comment-174880</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Chevron, I think, is using solar to make steam to cook the sludge out of its holes.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chevron, I think, is using solar to make steam to cook the sludge out of its holes.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Ronald Brakels</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/07/31/floating-offshore-wind-turbines-could-meet-eu-electricity-demands-four-times-over-according-to-new-report/#comment-174878</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ronald Brakels]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Aug 2013 04:54:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=54476#comment-174878</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yep.  And maybe I should write about the oil industry&#039;s use of solar.  But not today.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yep.  And maybe I should write about the oil industry&#8217;s use of solar.  But not today.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bob_Wallace</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/07/31/floating-offshore-wind-turbines-could-meet-eu-electricity-demands-four-times-over-according-to-new-report/#comment-174867</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob_Wallace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Aug 2013 03:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=54476#comment-174867</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[So you&#039;re suggesting that oil rigs will go wind to save diesel?


I can see that.  After all, coal mines are installing solar.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So you&#8217;re suggesting that oil rigs will go wind to save diesel?</p>
<p>I can see that.  After all, coal mines are installing solar.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ronald Brakels</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/07/31/floating-offshore-wind-turbines-could-meet-eu-electricity-demands-four-times-over-according-to-new-report/#comment-174852</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ronald Brakels]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Aug 2013 00:23:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=54476#comment-174852</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[And it might sound a little bizarre, but one big fan of floating turbines will be the oil industry.  Offshore oil rigs can use a lot of expensive liquid fuel and using a floating wind turbines will be a big money saver.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And it might sound a little bizarre, but one big fan of floating turbines will be the oil industry.  Offshore oil rigs can use a lot of expensive liquid fuel and using a floating wind turbines will be a big money saver.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: JamesWimberley</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/07/31/floating-offshore-wind-turbines-could-meet-eu-electricity-demands-four-times-over-according-to-new-report/#comment-174839</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JamesWimberley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Aug 2013 22:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=54476#comment-174839</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Japan is also very interested in floating wind turbines because on the Pacific side of the archipelago there is hardly any continental shelf for fixed ones.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Japan is also very interested in floating wind turbines because on the Pacific side of the archipelago there is hardly any continental shelf for fixed ones.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bob_Wallace</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/07/31/floating-offshore-wind-turbines-could-meet-eu-electricity-demands-four-times-over-according-to-new-report/#comment-174838</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob_Wallace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Aug 2013 22:32:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=54476#comment-174838</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A neat thing about floaters is if one needs significant repair/refurbishing they can tow a replacement out and hook it up.  Then tow the other turbine back to a dry dock and give it the attention it needs from dry land.


Almost no down time.



It&#039;s likely to be a major cost saver.  Work can continue even in nasty weather when it would be hard to access a tower at sea.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A neat thing about floaters is if one needs significant repair/refurbishing they can tow a replacement out and hook it up.  Then tow the other turbine back to a dry dock and give it the attention it needs from dry land.</p>
<p>Almost no down time.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s likely to be a major cost saver.  Work can continue even in nasty weather when it would be hard to access a tower at sea.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Ronald Brakels</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/07/31/floating-offshore-wind-turbines-could-meet-eu-electricity-demands-four-times-over-according-to-new-report/#comment-174836</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ronald Brakels]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Aug 2013 22:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=54476#comment-174836</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The reason they are building floating turbines is that it should be cheaper than current offshore wind built in water depths of over 50 meters.  It is a cost saving measure that also opens up deeper water to wind turbines.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The reason they are building floating turbines is that it should be cheaper than current offshore wind built in water depths of over 50 meters.  It is a cost saving measure that also opens up deeper water to wind turbines.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bob_Wallace</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/07/31/floating-offshore-wind-turbines-could-meet-eu-electricity-demands-four-times-over-according-to-new-report/#comment-174811</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob_Wallace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Aug 2013 17:48:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=54476#comment-174811</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yep, our ocean going vessel have to be scrapped after only a few years use.


Oh, wait, they don&#039;t.


Yes, it is a harsher climate.  That will mean building a bit tighter turbine and replacing front bearings and seals more often.  That sort of stuff.


But the wind resources are significantly richer so that makes it worth the extra effort and cost.


It&#039;s kind of like with your beloved oil.  The good stuff is harder to get to.  It&#039;s harder on drill rigs to go deeper and harder on pumps to suck it out.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yep, our ocean going vessel have to be scrapped after only a few years use.</p>
<p>Oh, wait, they don&#8217;t.</p>
<p>Yes, it is a harsher climate.  That will mean building a bit tighter turbine and replacing front bearings and seals more often.  That sort of stuff.</p>
<p>But the wind resources are significantly richer so that makes it worth the extra effort and cost.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s kind of like with your beloved oil.  The good stuff is harder to get to.  It&#8217;s harder on drill rigs to go deeper and harder on pumps to suck it out.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Steeple</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/07/31/floating-offshore-wind-turbines-could-meet-eu-electricity-demands-four-times-over-according-to-new-report/#comment-174786</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steeple]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Aug 2013 14:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=54476#comment-174786</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Offshore environments are very harsh, particularly on moving equipment. Maintenance costs will be much higher than on land is these are to have long lives.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Offshore environments are very harsh, particularly on moving equipment. Maintenance costs will be much higher than on land is these are to have long lives.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Bob_Wallace</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/07/31/floating-offshore-wind-turbines-could-meet-eu-electricity-demands-four-times-over-according-to-new-report/#comment-174752</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob_Wallace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Aug 2013 04:47:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=54476#comment-174752</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Here&#039;s what I find for onshore wind from the European Wind Energy Association.  I stuck it in for comparison.  I believe US wind is cheaper due to our better wind resources.

&quot;... the cost ranges from approximately 6-8 c€/kWh at sites with low average wind speeds to approximately 4-5 c€/kWh at good coastal positions.&quot;

http://www.ewea.org/fileadmin/ewea_documents/documents/publications/WETF/Facts_Volume_2.pdf

I found this for European offshore...

&quot;This equals Europe’s current offshore wind LCoE of €13 cents per kilowatt-hour (kWh) dropping to €11ct/kWh by 2016 and €9ct/kWh by 2020 – making offshore wind competitive with all other forms of non-hydro renewable electricity.&quot;

http://theenergycollective.com/silviomarcacci/222221/offshore-wind-industry-130-billion-euro-market-2020

And this for UK offshore...

&quot;‘The current cost of offshore wind is around £150–£169
  per MWh [15.0–16.9p per kWh]. This follows unforeseen price increases due mainly to the falling strength of the pound against the euro and commodity prices. ... Currency fluctuations were the primary reason for the 26–33% increase in the capital costs of offshore wind during 2008–10. This is mainly due to 80% of the components of offshore wind turbines installed in the UK between 2005 and 2010 being imported into the country. ... With the currency impact removed, underlying capital costs would have increased by only 4–7% since 2008’.

‘We should not be particularly surprised that we have arrived at a point in the history of a particular emerging technology when costs have increased ... many technologies go through such a period, and still go on to offer cost-effective performance in the long run.’

‘Reducing the cost of offshore wind to £100 per MWh [10p per kWh] by the early 2020s has become a key objective for the DECC, with a task force now in place to achieve this goal. Costs of offshore wind may fall further beyond the early 2020s with future levelised cost projections of £70-80
  per MWh [7p–8p per kWh] by 2020–2030 forecast ...’ .&quot;

http://www.blewbury.co.uk/energy/offshore_wind.htm


7p is 11 cents US.



I would expect our first wind farms to be expensive.  We&#039;ve got a lot of infrastructure to build (plants, docks, ships) and people to train.  There will be a lot of inefficiency at first from the supply chain through throwing the switch.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s what I find for onshore wind from the European Wind Energy Association.  I stuck it in for comparison.  I believe US wind is cheaper due to our better wind resources.</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230; the cost ranges from approximately 6-8 c€/kWh at sites with low average wind speeds to approximately 4-5 c€/kWh at good coastal positions.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.ewea.org/fileadmin/ewea_documents/documents/publications/WETF/Facts_Volume_2.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.ewea.org/fileadmin/ewea_documents/documents/publications/WETF/Facts_Volume_2.pdf</a></p>
<p>I found this for European offshore&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8220;This equals Europe’s current offshore wind LCoE of €13 cents per kilowatt-hour (kWh) dropping to €11ct/kWh by 2016 and €9ct/kWh by 2020 – making offshore wind competitive with all other forms of non-hydro renewable electricity.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://theenergycollective.com/silviomarcacci/222221/offshore-wind-industry-130-billion-euro-market-2020" rel="nofollow">http://theenergycollective.com/silviomarcacci/222221/offshore-wind-industry-130-billion-euro-market-2020</a></p>
<p>And this for UK offshore&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8220;‘The current cost of offshore wind is around £150–£169<br />
  per MWh [15.0–16.9p per kWh]. This follows unforeseen price increases due mainly to the falling strength of the pound against the euro and commodity prices. &#8230; Currency fluctuations were the primary reason for the 26–33% increase in the capital costs of offshore wind during 2008–10. This is mainly due to 80% of the components of offshore wind turbines installed in the UK between 2005 and 2010 being imported into the country. &#8230; With the currency impact removed, underlying capital costs would have increased by only 4–7% since 2008’.</p>
<p>‘We should not be particularly surprised that we have arrived at a point in the history of a particular emerging technology when costs have increased &#8230; many technologies go through such a period, and still go on to offer cost-effective performance in the long run.’</p>
<p>‘Reducing the cost of offshore wind to £100 per MWh [10p per kWh] by the early 2020s has become a key objective for the DECC, with a task force now in place to achieve this goal. Costs of offshore wind may fall further beyond the early 2020s with future levelised cost projections of £70-80<br />
  per MWh [7p–8p per kWh] by 2020–2030 forecast &#8230;’ .&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.blewbury.co.uk/energy/offshore_wind.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.blewbury.co.uk/energy/offshore_wind.htm</a></p>
<p>7p is 11 cents US.</p>
<p>I would expect our first wind farms to be expensive.  We&#8217;ve got a lot of infrastructure to build (plants, docks, ships) and people to train.  There will be a lot of inefficiency at first from the supply chain through throwing the switch.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Steeple</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/07/31/floating-offshore-wind-turbines-could-meet-eu-electricity-demands-four-times-over-according-to-new-report/#comment-174739</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steeple]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Aug 2013 02:06:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=54476#comment-174739</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ballpark based on my interaction with some offshore wind developers. What do you think it will be on a full cost basis with a reasonable return?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ballpark based on my interaction with some offshore wind developers. What do you think it will be on a full cost basis with a reasonable return?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Bob_Wallace</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/07/31/floating-offshore-wind-turbines-could-meet-eu-electricity-demands-four-times-over-according-to-new-report/#comment-174733</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob_Wallace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Jul 2013 23:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=54476#comment-174733</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Where did you get $150MWhr?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Where did you get $150MWhr?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Ronald Brakels</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/07/31/floating-offshore-wind-turbines-could-meet-eu-electricity-demands-four-times-over-according-to-new-report/#comment-174732</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ronald Brakels]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Jul 2013 23:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=54476#comment-174732</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The North Atlantic ocean is like 50,000,000 square kilometers so floating wind turbines could supply maybe 2,000 times Europe&#039;s electricity demand.  The four times demand figure comes from throwing a bit of realism in there.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The North Atlantic ocean is like 50,000,000 square kilometers so floating wind turbines could supply maybe 2,000 times Europe&#8217;s electricity demand.  The four times demand figure comes from throwing a bit of realism in there.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Steeple</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/07/31/floating-offshore-wind-turbines-could-meet-eu-electricity-demands-four-times-over-according-to-new-report/#comment-174731</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steeple]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Jul 2013 23:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=54476#comment-174731</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[$150MWhr? Can&#039;t be cheap.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>$150MWhr? Can&#8217;t be cheap.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Bob_Wallace</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/07/31/floating-offshore-wind-turbines-could-meet-eu-electricity-demands-four-times-over-according-to-new-report/#comment-174724</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob_Wallace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Jul 2013 22:15:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=54476#comment-174724</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What&#039;s the potential for European offshore wind?  Is it possibly 4x 3,180,000 GWh per year?  If so, the title is correct.


150 GW by 2030 would be a measure of only the nameplate capacity in place by that date.  Not what would possible to build.  That&#039;s assuming the world continues past 2030, of course.



Nameplate vs. output capacity.  It looks like current technology is returning capacity number higher than 40%.


It seems to me that an earlier study found that the UK had massive amounts of offshore wind potential.  I&#039;ll try to find it again.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What&#8217;s the potential for European offshore wind?  Is it possibly 4x 3,180,000 GWh per year?  If so, the title is correct.</p>
<p>150 GW by 2030 would be a measure of only the nameplate capacity in place by that date.  Not what would possible to build.  That&#8217;s assuming the world continues past 2030, of course.</p>
<p>Nameplate vs. output capacity.  It looks like current technology is returning capacity number higher than 40%.</p>
<p>It seems to me that an earlier study found that the UK had massive amounts of offshore wind potential.  I&#8217;ll try to find it again.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/07/31/floating-offshore-wind-turbines-could-meet-eu-electricity-demands-four-times-over-according-to-new-report/#comment-174718</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Matt]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Jul 2013 21:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=54476#comment-174718</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[First reference I found (eurostat) was EU-27 was 3.18 million gigawatt hours (GWh) in 2010 (3,180,000 GWh per year)


150GW*365.25(days/year)*24(hour/day) = 1,314,900 GWh per year at 100% (I think we can all agree that is a bit high even for off shore wind).
Now even assuming that EU does a lot of efficiency improvements by 2030, the 150GW will not be 4x the demand.


Or maybe it is just badly written, they expect 150GW with current policies, but a boat load if the policies change. Or maybe they are just talking about what isn&#039;t covered by PV and geothermal.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First reference I found (eurostat) was EU-27 was 3.18 million gigawatt hours (GWh) in 2010 (3,180,000 GWh per year)</p>
<p>150GW*365.25(days/year)*24(hour/day) = 1,314,900 GWh per year at 100% (I think we can all agree that is a bit high even for off shore wind).<br />
Now even assuming that EU does a lot of efficiency improvements by 2030, the 150GW will not be 4x the demand.</p>
<p>Or maybe it is just badly written, they expect 150GW with current policies, but a boat load if the policies change. Or maybe they are just talking about what isn&#8217;t covered by PV and geothermal.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/07/31/floating-offshore-wind-turbines-could-meet-eu-electricity-demands-four-times-over-according-to-new-report/#comment-174697</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Jul 2013 19:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=54476#comment-174697</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Where did the article&#039;s headline come from? It&#039;s misleading at best and untrue at worst. In 2010 the EU installed capacity was 870GW, according to the first link I clicked on Googling &#039;eu electricity demand 2011 GW&#039; which seems like a reputable source. So barely 1/6 of the EU demands in 2010 could be met even installing all 150GW of capacity, and at what price? It&#039;s still a huge amount of electricity, so there&#039;s no need to mislead the reader.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Where did the article&#8217;s headline come from? It&#8217;s misleading at best and untrue at worst. In 2010 the EU installed capacity was 870GW, according to the first link I clicked on Googling &#8216;eu electricity demand 2011 GW&#8217; which seems like a reputable source. So barely 1/6 of the EU demands in 2010 could be met even installing all 150GW of capacity, and at what price? It&#8217;s still a huge amount of electricity, so there&#8217;s no need to mislead the reader.</p>
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