Comments on: Facts On Germany’s Nuclear, Fossil Fuel, & Renewable Electricity Generation Changes

By: John Tucker

John Tucker — Fri, 13 Sep 2013 23:38:00 +0000

So which is it with you ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Electricity_production_in_Germany.PNG

Explain.

By: Pieter Siegers

Pieter Siegers — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 20:08:00 +0000

Thanks Bob!

By: Ivor O'Connor

Ivor O'Connor — Mon, 05 Aug 2013 00:40:00 +0000

You probably saw the article Bob. I think it was here on cleantechnica. Basically showing at peak hours Germany powers up coal plants to supply energy to the countries north of them. Peak hour prices being much higher. When I read that article, wherever that article is, I thought to myself Germany is really really smart by going renewable in such a strong way. They may be saturating their own country during the daylight hours and not passing it on to the citizens but.. They are also turning on their own coal plants and selling this plus the excesses to the other countries that have not gone renewable yet and hence still need lots of daytime power.

This is another instance of me not keeping copious notes.

By: Bob_Wallace

Bob_Wallace — Sun, 04 Aug 2013 19:46:00 +0000

“willing to buy German coal energy at 4x the market value”

Germany earns about 7% on its electricity sales to other countries over what it pays for electricity imported.

By: Bob_Wallace

Bob_Wallace — Sun, 04 Aug 2013 19:44:00 +0000

List of countries that get 60% or more of their electricity from clean generation…

http://k.lenz.name/LB/?p=6525

By: Pieter Siegers

Pieter Siegers — Fri, 02 Aug 2013 15:20:00 +0000

Do you guys have any links that backup this information? TIA

By: Pieter Siegers

Pieter Siegers — Fri, 02 Aug 2013 15:19:00 +0000

@Ivor Can you back up your statements please?

By: Pieter Siegers

Pieter Siegers — Fri, 02 Aug 2013 15:19:00 +0000

I fully agree.

By: Pieter Siegers

Pieter Siegers — Fri, 02 Aug 2013 15:16:00 +0000

Thanks a lot for this article. Very good perspective is presented.

By: Bob_Wallace

Bob_Wallace — Thu, 01 Aug 2013 17:33:00 +0000

I think Steeple confused the conversation by claiming that German industry was fleeing because of electricity prices.

When he presented his scarce data it looks like some European industry might move some of their production to the US in order to access cheaper natural gas.

I don’t think he’s yet learned the art of saying “Oops”.

By: Bob_Wallace

Bob_Wallace — Thu, 01 Aug 2013 17:30:00 +0000

And France has a long way to go to catch up with Paraguay.

By: Hervé Musseau

Hervé Musseau — Thu, 01 Aug 2013 11:13:00 +0000

They still have a very long way to go to catch up to France regarding de-carbonization.

By: ThomasGerke

ThomasGerke — Thu, 01 Aug 2013 08:52:00 +0000

US energy costs are not lower than German energy costs- despite the significant past & present price per unit difference.

Besides electricity expenses are insignificant side notes for most industries (below 2% of product value).

The few energy intensive industries that could actually go abroad without harming their market access / customer base, actually are paying very low rates. (like 0.05€ / kWh for steel mills or aluminium smelters)

By: Bob_Wallace

Bob_Wallace — Wed, 31 Jul 2013 04:39:00 +0000

” Energy costs are killing a lot of German industry.”

“Are killing” implies that you have information.

Pufffffffffff…….

By: Steeple

Steeple — Wed, 31 Jul 2013 02:22:00 +0000

Doesn’t and can’t happen overnite. Doesn’t = see US Rust Belt in the late 70s and early 80s. Can’t = German labor laws which make permanent shutdowns difficult. There will be less German manufacturing in three years than today, and uncompetitive energy costs will be a major reason.

By: Bob_Wallace

Bob_Wallace — Wed, 31 Jul 2013 01:01:00 +0000

So you’re admitting that you can’t back up your claim that closing nuclear plants has driven industry from Germany?

By: Ivor O'Connor

Ivor O'Connor — Wed, 31 Jul 2013 00:14:00 +0000

What is my experience? The ability to read the articles and understand them. The ability to do these two items puts me one or two steps above you.

By: Steeple

Steeple — Tue, 30 Jul 2013 23:36:00 +0000

CEO Steeple: Wallace, can you please explain to me how the Americans are crushing us in our chemicals business. I thought you said that our energy costs have decreased.
Wallace: Yes sir! Our power costs have come down 3% in the past four years!
CEO Steeple: But haven’t electricity costs in America declined almost 40% over that same period? And natural gas even more?
Wallace: Are you moving the goal posts, boss?
CEO Steeple: Wallace, I thought you knew by now that costs are relative and not absolute in manufacturing businesses. It’s not how much we pay, but what we pay relative to our competitors that matters. Got it?

By: Bob_Wallace

Bob_Wallace — Tue, 30 Jul 2013 22:24:00 +0000

A moving we go,
A moving we go,
Heigh-ho, the derry-o
A goal post moving we go….

By: Steeple

Steeple — Tue, 30 Jul 2013 21:40:00 +0000

Well, oil prices were $140/bbl in 2008 and they are $105 now. Natural gas prices in the US were $12/MMBtu in 2008 and are now $3.50/MMBtu. Coal prices have collapsed as well. So US power prices are down substantially since then, thanks mostly to the nat gas move. You know that.

Yet the price of power in Germany has only come down by a few per cent based on your figures? Looks like cheap nuclear power has been replaced by expensive nat gas fired power. And the delta between US energy costs and Europe just keeps getting wider.