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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;Technologies That Could Change Everything&#8221;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://cleantechnica.com/2013/07/21/technologies-that-could-change-everything/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/07/21/technologies-that-could-change-everything/</link>
	<description>Clean Tech News &#38; Views: Solar Energy News. Wind Energy News. EV News. &#38; More.</description>
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		<title>By: RobS</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/07/21/technologies-that-could-change-everything/#comment-173363</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[RobS]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jul 2013 14:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=53713#comment-173363</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You&#039;re talking about a very different number, your number is how much additional cooling capacity is needed ie if the size of the facility would otherwise require 10kw of cooling capacity then with heat generation from incandescent lighting you need an additional 30% or 3kw of additional cooling simply to fight the effect of the hundreds of little heaters in the ceiling. That number matches very closely with what I was saying. Data centres of course are another facility like offices and towel lobbies where lights run nearly 24 hours a day and stable internal temperature conditions are very important.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re talking about a very different number, your number is how much additional cooling capacity is needed ie if the size of the facility would otherwise require 10kw of cooling capacity then with heat generation from incandescent lighting you need an additional 30% or 3kw of additional cooling simply to fight the effect of the hundreds of little heaters in the ceiling. That number matches very closely with what I was saying. Data centres of course are another facility like offices and towel lobbies where lights run nearly 24 hours a day and stable internal temperature conditions are very important.</p>
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		<title>By: RobS</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/07/21/technologies-that-could-change-everything/#comment-173361</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[RobS]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jul 2013 14:20:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=53713#comment-173361</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The topic was &quot;technologies that could change the world&quot; and LEDs were just one of about 10 things mentioned in the referred article.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The topic was &#8220;technologies that could change the world&#8221; and LEDs were just one of about 10 things mentioned in the referred article.</p>
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		<title>By: xclvet</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/07/21/technologies-that-could-change-everything/#comment-173233</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[xclvet]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jul 2013 16:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=53713#comment-173233</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You cannot make up rules with no authority.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You cannot make up rules with no authority.</p>
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		<title>By: xclvet</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/07/21/technologies-that-could-change-everything/#comment-173232</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[xclvet]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jul 2013 16:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=53713#comment-173232</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[How about not trying to BS others.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How about not trying to BS others.</p>
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		<title>By: xclvet</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/07/21/technologies-that-could-change-everything/#comment-173231</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[xclvet]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jul 2013 16:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=53713#comment-173231</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t often post, but when I do, I post about the article. Stay topical my friends.  LEDs are great. Their cost is now affordable - particularly when their lifespan is factored in.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t often post, but when I do, I post about the article. Stay topical my friends.  LEDs are great. Their cost is now affordable &#8211; particularly when their lifespan is factored in.</p>
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		<title>By: xclvet</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/07/21/technologies-that-could-change-everything/#comment-173230</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[xclvet]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jul 2013 16:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=53713#comment-173230</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The article about credit card debt or LEDs?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The article about credit card debt or LEDs?</p>
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		<title>By: xclvet</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/07/21/technologies-that-could-change-everything/#comment-173229</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[xclvet]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jul 2013 16:37:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=53713#comment-173229</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes, people often steer conversations to what they&#039;re familiar with. I&#039;m using an LED bulb to illuminate my keyboard right this minute.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, people often steer conversations to what they&#8217;re familiar with. I&#8217;m using an LED bulb to illuminate my keyboard right this minute.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob_Wallace</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/07/21/technologies-that-could-change-everything/#comment-173156</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob_Wallace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jul 2013 04:48:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=53713#comment-173156</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My previous PV array was wired at 12 vdc.  My present one is 24 vdc.  I have a friend who wired 48 vdc.  Rooftop in Australia can be wired at 600 vdc or 1,000 vdc.


I have devices that run on 6 vdc, 12 vdc, 15 vdc, 18.5 vdc and a few other voltages.  I use 1.5 vdc and 9 vdc batteries.



I own nothing that charges from a USB port.



I see no trivial solution.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My previous PV array was wired at 12 vdc.  My present one is 24 vdc.  I have a friend who wired 48 vdc.  Rooftop in Australia can be wired at 600 vdc or 1,000 vdc.</p>
<p>I have devices that run on 6 vdc, 12 vdc, 15 vdc, 18.5 vdc and a few other voltages.  I use 1.5 vdc and 9 vdc batteries.</p>
<p>I own nothing that charges from a USB port.</p>
<p>I see no trivial solution.</p>
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		<title>By: dynamo.joe</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/07/21/technologies-that-could-change-everything/#comment-173155</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dynamo.joe]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jul 2013 04:36:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=53713#comment-173155</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That&#039;s really only true if you are jumping from incandescent to LED.  If you already have CFL then they save around $17 over the life of the bulb.  Still there are bulbs less than $17 now, so go buy them.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s really only true if you are jumping from incandescent to LED.  If you already have CFL then they save around $17 over the life of the bulb.  Still there are bulbs less than $17 now, so go buy them.</p>
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		<title>By: dynamo.joe</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/07/21/technologies-that-could-change-everything/#comment-173154</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dynamo.joe]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jul 2013 04:32:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=53713#comment-173154</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My history maybe wrong but I thought AC won the transmission wars.  I&#039;m not advocating DC transmission.  just using it where it is produced.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My history maybe wrong but I thought AC won the transmission wars.  I&#8217;m not advocating DC transmission.  just using it where it is produced.</p>
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		<title>By: dynamo.joe</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/07/21/technologies-that-could-change-everything/#comment-173153</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dynamo.joe]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jul 2013 04:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=53713#comment-173153</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[None of that is what I suggested.  I said, perhaps not clearly, if you have PV you ought to use the DC power it is supplying to satisfy your DC needs, then convert any excess to AC.
 
Requires 0 changes to the grid or to generation plants.
 
DC voltages are mostly standardized already.  That&#039;s why you can charge everything from a USB port.
 
Even in an existing structure (house) changing the wiring to provide DC would be fairly trivial.  Run a line from PV to breaker box.  Hook it up to whichever circuit you choose.  Change the standard outlet box to a USB outlet box.
 
Several rooms in my house have 2 separate AC circuits.  Change 1 to DC, leave the other standard AC.
 
That should be a miniscule additional charge to the installation costs of your PV system.  An extra hour, maybe, to the time an electrician spends there?  So, $50?  $100?
 
Lighting is more problematic.  Maybe you would have to add an AC to DC converter and 3 way switches, so you could choose PV/off/grid or something.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>None of that is what I suggested.  I said, perhaps not clearly, if you have PV you ought to use the DC power it is supplying to satisfy your DC needs, then convert any excess to AC.</p>
<p>Requires 0 changes to the grid or to generation plants.</p>
<p>DC voltages are mostly standardized already.  That&#8217;s why you can charge everything from a USB port.</p>
<p>Even in an existing structure (house) changing the wiring to provide DC would be fairly trivial.  Run a line from PV to breaker box.  Hook it up to whichever circuit you choose.  Change the standard outlet box to a USB outlet box.</p>
<p>Several rooms in my house have 2 separate AC circuits.  Change 1 to DC, leave the other standard AC.</p>
<p>That should be a miniscule additional charge to the installation costs of your PV system.  An extra hour, maybe, to the time an electrician spends there?  So, $50?  $100?</p>
<p>Lighting is more problematic.  Maybe you would have to add an AC to DC converter and 3 way switches, so you could choose PV/off/grid or something.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob_Wallace</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/07/21/technologies-that-could-change-everything/#comment-173152</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob_Wallace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jul 2013 04:15:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=53713#comment-173152</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Exponential growth only in the early years.

There&#039;s a topside boundary on the number of cars sold per year.  I think the fleet turnover is around 15 years which would mean that about 7% of all cars are replaced each year.


If we get range and low purchase price we might see a more rapid fleet turnover for the first round of EVs.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Exponential growth only in the early years.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s a topside boundary on the number of cars sold per year.  I think the fleet turnover is around 15 years which would mean that about 7% of all cars are replaced each year.</p>
<p>If we get range and low purchase price we might see a more rapid fleet turnover for the first round of EVs.</p>
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		<title>By: Omega Centauri</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/07/21/technologies-that-could-change-everything/#comment-173151</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Omega Centauri]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jul 2013 04:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=53713#comment-173151</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I said EVs have promise, but that it will take years. Of course there is no guarantee exponential growth can continue long enough.


 The last time I heard the chess-board rice grain story, it ended very badly for the inventor: Once the King figured out the cost, he had him executed!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I said EVs have promise, but that it will take years. Of course there is no guarantee exponential growth can continue long enough.</p>
<p> The last time I heard the chess-board rice grain story, it ended very badly for the inventor: Once the King figured out the cost, he had him executed!</p>
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		<title>By: Omega Centauri</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/07/21/technologies-that-could-change-everything/#comment-173149</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Omega Centauri]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jul 2013 04:02:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=53713#comment-173149</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Where it makes sense today is large computer server rooms. Better to have one large DC power supply that supplies all the servers, than a zillion small (and less efficient) power supplies on each server.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Where it makes sense today is large computer server rooms. Better to have one large DC power supply that supplies all the servers, than a zillion small (and less efficient) power supplies on each server.</p>
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		<title>By: Omega Centauri</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/07/21/technologies-that-could-change-everything/#comment-173148</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Omega Centauri]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jul 2013 04:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=53713#comment-173148</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[DC has its own problems. One is the voltage is probably not correct for the end use, so you got to use some sort of voltage converter. Then if you try to supply DC at low voltage resistive loses in the copper wires will be very large unless the wires are very thick. There was a reason AC won the current wars.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DC has its own problems. One is the voltage is probably not correct for the end use, so you got to use some sort of voltage converter. Then if you try to supply DC at low voltage resistive loses in the copper wires will be very large unless the wires are very thick. There was a reason AC won the current wars.</p>
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		<title>By: Omega Centauri</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/07/21/technologies-that-could-change-everything/#comment-173146</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Omega Centauri]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jul 2013 03:57:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=53713#comment-173146</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Those making data center computations use the figure of 30% additional power for AC for power dissipated in the computer room. Quite a bit lower than your two times. Also, the thirty percent only applies if its actually warm enough that AC comes into play. For a computer server room, this is virtually all the time.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Those making data center computations use the figure of 30% additional power for AC for power dissipated in the computer room. Quite a bit lower than your two times. Also, the thirty percent only applies if its actually warm enough that AC comes into play. For a computer server room, this is virtually all the time.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob_Wallace</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/07/21/technologies-that-could-change-everything/#comment-173042</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob_Wallace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jul 2013 15:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=53713#comment-173042</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Power supplies are not inverters.  

Inverters are about 98% efficient.  Power supplies, the ones now used for most low voltage DC devices are 80% to 90% efficient.

You are correct that by the time power gets from your solar panels to your laptop there has been as much as a 20% loss.  One trip through an inverter, one through a power supply.

Now, what would it take to change augment our grid to provide a parallel DC line in order to avoid the small amount of electricity lost.  Remember, your laptop is not an energy hog.  Most of the electricity you use runs the big stuff like your refer, washer/dryer, electric range, microwave, water heater, dishwasher, .....

We&#039;d have to string a new set of wires on the grid.  

We&#039;d have to install a new set of wires and outlets in each building.


We&#039;d have to standardize DC voltage for all the stuff we now run on DC.


We&#039;d have to take grid AC and convert it to low voltage DC.  Otherwise we&#039;d have to establish as separate free-standing DC grid with its own generation and storage.  If we were to convert grid AC to DC then all the savings disappear.



What would that save?  Say 20% for a 9 watt LED.  1.8 watts.  Same for a 35 watt laptop, 7 watts.  It would take quite a bit to get up to 1 kW of savings and at $0.11/kWh payback for the infrastructure would take a long time.


Probably better to spend the money at the supply end and install more solar panels and wind turbines.


The exception is server rooms.  Some are starting to wire all DC and use one big power supply to convert for all.  Not sure that saves any power, just cuts down on the wiring.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Power supplies are not inverters.  </p>
<p>Inverters are about 98% efficient.  Power supplies, the ones now used for most low voltage DC devices are 80% to 90% efficient.</p>
<p>You are correct that by the time power gets from your solar panels to your laptop there has been as much as a 20% loss.  One trip through an inverter, one through a power supply.</p>
<p>Now, what would it take to change augment our grid to provide a parallel DC line in order to avoid the small amount of electricity lost.  Remember, your laptop is not an energy hog.  Most of the electricity you use runs the big stuff like your refer, washer/dryer, electric range, microwave, water heater, dishwasher, &#8230;..</p>
<p>We&#8217;d have to string a new set of wires on the grid.  </p>
<p>We&#8217;d have to install a new set of wires and outlets in each building.</p>
<p>We&#8217;d have to standardize DC voltage for all the stuff we now run on DC.</p>
<p>We&#8217;d have to take grid AC and convert it to low voltage DC.  Otherwise we&#8217;d have to establish as separate free-standing DC grid with its own generation and storage.  If we were to convert grid AC to DC then all the savings disappear.</p>
<p>What would that save?  Say 20% for a 9 watt LED.  1.8 watts.  Same for a 35 watt laptop, 7 watts.  It would take quite a bit to get up to 1 kW of savings and at $0.11/kWh payback for the infrastructure would take a long time.</p>
<p>Probably better to spend the money at the supply end and install more solar panels and wind turbines.</p>
<p>The exception is server rooms.  Some are starting to wire all DC and use one big power supply to convert for all.  Not sure that saves any power, just cuts down on the wiring.</p>
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		<title>By: RobS</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/07/21/technologies-that-could-change-everything/#comment-173028</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[RobS]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jul 2013 14:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=53713#comment-173028</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[They pay for themselves in running cost savings in about 9 months and save hundreds per lamp over their lifespan, well worth going into credit card debt to pay for.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They pay for themselves in running cost savings in about 9 months and save hundreds per lamp over their lifespan, well worth going into credit card debt to pay for.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/07/21/technologies-that-could-change-everything/#comment-173014</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Matt]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jul 2013 12:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=53713#comment-173014</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t think you want to use credit card debt, the interest is much too high. Unless you get a deal where they charge 4% upfront, 1-2 years 0%, then back to 15%-25%. But then only do enough that you can pay off during the 0%.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think you want to use credit card debt, the interest is much too high. Unless you get a deal where they charge 4% upfront, 1-2 years 0%, then back to 15%-25%. But then only do enough that you can pay off during the 0%.</p>
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		<title>By: dynamo.joe</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/07/21/technologies-that-could-change-everything/#comment-173008</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dynamo.joe]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jul 2013 11:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=53713#comment-173008</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Then why does my computer have a &quot;power supply&quot; to change to DC?  Why did my phone/laptop/e-reader all come with &quot;AC adapters&quot;.  You can call it what you want, but it&#039;s an inverter.

  

And your new light bulb obviously contains one in the base.  That&#039;s 2 trips thru inverters.  Even if they are 98% efficient.  Though most desktop power supplies were 80% last time I built a machine though &#039;silver&#039; 85% PS and &#039;gold&#039; 90% PS were readily available for some extra dough.  That&#039;s just off the top of my head, it might have been 85%, 90%, 95%.

  

Still, the point is if you have PV you are converting to AC and then converting back to DC for many of your end uses.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Then why does my computer have a &#8220;power supply&#8221; to change to DC?  Why did my phone/laptop/e-reader all come with &#8220;AC adapters&#8221;.  You can call it what you want, but it&#8217;s an inverter.</p>
<p>And your new light bulb obviously contains one in the base.  That&#8217;s 2 trips thru inverters.  Even if they are 98% efficient.  Though most desktop power supplies were 80% last time I built a machine though &#8216;silver&#8217; 85% PS and &#8216;gold&#8217; 90% PS were readily available for some extra dough.  That&#8217;s just off the top of my head, it might have been 85%, 90%, 95%.</p>
<p>Still, the point is if you have PV you are converting to AC and then converting back to DC for many of your end uses.</p>
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