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	<title>Comments on: Harvesting Electricity From Plants &#8212; Plant-Based Energy Generation</title>
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	<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/05/11/harvesting-electricity-from-plants-plant-based-energy-generation/</link>
	<description>Clean Tech News &#38; Views: Solar Energy News. Wind Energy News. EV News. &#38; More.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 28 Dec 2014 08:17:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Daphne</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/05/11/harvesting-electricity-from-plants-plant-based-energy-generation/#comment-216595</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Daphne]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Mar 2014 00:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=51605#comment-216595</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi, where can I find the whole research?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, where can I find the whole research?</p>
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		<title>By: Jack Harkness</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/05/11/harvesting-electricity-from-plants-plant-based-energy-generation/#comment-213696</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jack Harkness]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Mar 2014 08:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[But don&#039;t just imitate the process artificially.  This would not be the best
way to utilize the technology.  Use the plants themselves to generate electricity.
If you imitate it you are making synthetic things in a lab with tons of waste
products.  This is our chance to continue our development of future electronics
and yet be more as one with nature.  Grow plants that are just plants but
generate electricity.  No more panels.  No more plastic and metal.  Just seed
to stalk to power.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But don&#8217;t just imitate the process artificially.  This would not be the best<br />
way to utilize the technology.  Use the plants themselves to generate electricity.<br />
If you imitate it you are making synthetic things in a lab with tons of waste<br />
products.  This is our chance to continue our development of future electronics<br />
and yet be more as one with nature.  Grow plants that are just plants but<br />
generate electricity.  No more panels.  No more plastic and metal.  Just seed<br />
to stalk to power.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/05/11/harvesting-electricity-from-plants-plant-based-energy-generation/#comment-206458</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jan 2014 12:58:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=51605#comment-206458</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This being something i am interested in, what&#039;s the best way of exploring this without jumping into a degree program that might not necessarily lead in the right direction?
What are the prerequisites i need to study before i can explore this at this kind of level? I have a-level equivalent biology and chemistry but found that university study wasn&#039;t leading me in the right direction for studying this.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This being something i am interested in, what&#8217;s the best way of exploring this without jumping into a degree program that might not necessarily lead in the right direction?<br />
What are the prerequisites i need to study before i can explore this at this kind of level? I have a-level equivalent biology and chemistry but found that university study wasn&#8217;t leading me in the right direction for studying this.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: CarlMN</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/05/11/harvesting-electricity-from-plants-plant-based-energy-generation/#comment-163692</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[CarlMN]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 May 2013 23:21:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=51605#comment-163692</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for your explanation, Daniel, I appreciate the effort you put into it and enjoyed learning from you about this. Since &quot;The researchers are currently working on improving the output and stability of the technology,&quot; it will be interesting to see what might come of this ... if anything.  Is there something that current theory doesn&#039;t know or understand that might allow for photosynthetic electricity being made a practical reality, or is this all just interesting laboratory experimentation?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your explanation, Daniel, I appreciate the effort you put into it and enjoyed learning from you about this. Since &#8220;The researchers are currently working on improving the output and stability of the technology,&#8221; it will be interesting to see what might come of this &#8230; if anything.  Is there something that current theory doesn&#8217;t know or understand that might allow for photosynthetic electricity being made a practical reality, or is this all just interesting laboratory experimentation?</p>
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		<title>By: FactsAreFun</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/05/11/harvesting-electricity-from-plants-plant-based-energy-generation/#comment-161339</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[FactsAreFun]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 May 2013 10:55:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=51605#comment-161339</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great reply. FYI, I remember reading that the theoretical limit for the thermodynamic efficiency of photosynthesis is around 6%. Actual chemical conversion efficiency of the best plant species in agricultural use seems to be less than 1%. Add to that the limited thermodynamic efficiency of converting sugars, starch or plant oils back to electric or mechanical energy, plus the energetic cost of agriculture and processing, and the total thermodynamic efficiency of plant based energy is on the order of 0.1%, or some 100-200 times less efficient than ordinary silicon cells. In other words... solar panels on the barn roof can produce as much net energy as a small farm can, in total.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great reply. FYI, I remember reading that the theoretical limit for the thermodynamic efficiency of photosynthesis is around 6%. Actual chemical conversion efficiency of the best plant species in agricultural use seems to be less than 1%. Add to that the limited thermodynamic efficiency of converting sugars, starch or plant oils back to electric or mechanical energy, plus the energetic cost of agriculture and processing, and the total thermodynamic efficiency of plant based energy is on the order of 0.1%, or some 100-200 times less efficient than ordinary silicon cells. In other words&#8230; solar panels on the barn roof can produce as much net energy as a small farm can, in total.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Wilcox</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/05/11/harvesting-electricity-from-plants-plant-based-energy-generation/#comment-161316</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Daniel Wilcox]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 May 2013 02:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=51605#comment-161316</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s hard to get really good power-efficiency numbers out of photosynthesis alone, since plants do so many different things. 

On the other hand, we can get a basic idea of the theoretical maximum power efficiency of both a silicon solar cell and photosynthesis using some relatively simple arguments.

If you take a hypothetical crystalline silicon solar cell with well-engineered antireflection coatings or structure, then it will absorb pretty much all the sunlight with a wavelength shorter than about a micron. The internal quantum efficiency of crystalline silicon solar cells is often really close to 100%, so essentially all of the absorbed photons are turned into electrons, each of which carries about 1.1 electron-volts of energy. For comparison, most visible-light photons have somewhere between 1.5 and 3 electron-volts of energy, so there are two sources of energy loss here. First, all of the photons with longer wavelengths than about a micron are not absorbed. Second, most of the absorbed photons are converted to electrons that have lower energy than the original photon. Put everything together with the actual solar spectrum, and you come up with 31% being the theoretical efficiency limit of a crystalline silicon solar cell (if memory serves).

Photosynthesis is more complicated, since as Ronald points out below, a lot of light is simply not absorbed. Also, in bright sunlight the internal quantum efficiency drops (the 100% quantum efficiency number is only true under low illumination). Finally, the electrons that photosynthesis produces are rather lower in energy than those of a silicon solar cell. Strictly speaking, photosynthesis doesn&#039;t produce electrons so much as produce chemical reactions (turning water into oxygen, for example), so it&#039;s even harder to really gauge energy efficiency. If you do something like the article suggests and take the electrons straight from the photosynthetic centers, then the energy of the electrons will strongly depend on exactly where in the photosynthetic chain the electrons were taken from. Putting everything together, I would hazard a guess that natural photosynthesis alone is 5-10% energy efficient, based on the above facts and based on the fact that whole plants are limited to 3% or 4% total energy efficiency (in terms of converting sunlight into plant mass). 

In terms of theoretical limits, if you were to take Photosystem II and directly collect its electrons at their most energetic point (which would be really hard), I&#039;d guess around 15% total efficiency to be the limit. The bandgap is about 1.8 electron-volts at the highest-energy point which corresponds to a theoretical Shockley-Queisser efficiency limit of about 28%, but I&#039;m guessing only about half the incident photons with more energy than 1.8 electron volts will be absorbed.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s hard to get really good power-efficiency numbers out of photosynthesis alone, since plants do so many different things. </p>
<p>On the other hand, we can get a basic idea of the theoretical maximum power efficiency of both a silicon solar cell and photosynthesis using some relatively simple arguments.</p>
<p>If you take a hypothetical crystalline silicon solar cell with well-engineered antireflection coatings or structure, then it will absorb pretty much all the sunlight with a wavelength shorter than about a micron. The internal quantum efficiency of crystalline silicon solar cells is often really close to 100%, so essentially all of the absorbed photons are turned into electrons, each of which carries about 1.1 electron-volts of energy. For comparison, most visible-light photons have somewhere between 1.5 and 3 electron-volts of energy, so there are two sources of energy loss here. First, all of the photons with longer wavelengths than about a micron are not absorbed. Second, most of the absorbed photons are converted to electrons that have lower energy than the original photon. Put everything together with the actual solar spectrum, and you come up with 31% being the theoretical efficiency limit of a crystalline silicon solar cell (if memory serves).</p>
<p>Photosynthesis is more complicated, since as Ronald points out below, a lot of light is simply not absorbed. Also, in bright sunlight the internal quantum efficiency drops (the 100% quantum efficiency number is only true under low illumination). Finally, the electrons that photosynthesis produces are rather lower in energy than those of a silicon solar cell. Strictly speaking, photosynthesis doesn&#8217;t produce electrons so much as produce chemical reactions (turning water into oxygen, for example), so it&#8217;s even harder to really gauge energy efficiency. If you do something like the article suggests and take the electrons straight from the photosynthetic centers, then the energy of the electrons will strongly depend on exactly where in the photosynthetic chain the electrons were taken from. Putting everything together, I would hazard a guess that natural photosynthesis alone is 5-10% energy efficient, based on the above facts and based on the fact that whole plants are limited to 3% or 4% total energy efficiency (in terms of converting sunlight into plant mass). </p>
<p>In terms of theoretical limits, if you were to take Photosystem II and directly collect its electrons at their most energetic point (which would be really hard), I&#8217;d guess around 15% total efficiency to be the limit. The bandgap is about 1.8 electron-volts at the highest-energy point which corresponds to a theoretical Shockley-Queisser efficiency limit of about 28%, but I&#8217;m guessing only about half the incident photons with more energy than 1.8 electron volts will be absorbed.</p>
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		<title>By: Ronald Brak</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/05/11/harvesting-electricity-from-plants-plant-based-energy-generation/#comment-161283</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ronald Brak]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 May 2013 17:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[For something to be about 100% efficient at absorbing light it&#039;s going to have to either be black or extremely close to it.  There&#039;s no way around that.  Leaves tend to be green, so we know they&#039;re not doing that.  Leaves also let light get absorbed by accesssory structures instead of just chlororplasts.  (Our eyeballs do the same thing, so it&#039;s not as if we&#039;re any better.)  Basically its a matter of how much light gets to where it actually needs to go, which is kind of bad in a plant, but the efficiency once it gets where it needs to go is pretty darn high.  Our solar cells are quite good at absorbing light, generally being blue black, but their quantum efficiency isn&#039;t as high.  Overall our solar cells are much more efficient than photosynthesis, but I can&#039;t grow a crop of solar panels by sticking single cells in the ground and watering them.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For something to be about 100% efficient at absorbing light it&#8217;s going to have to either be black or extremely close to it.  There&#8217;s no way around that.  Leaves tend to be green, so we know they&#8217;re not doing that.  Leaves also let light get absorbed by accesssory structures instead of just chlororplasts.  (Our eyeballs do the same thing, so it&#8217;s not as if we&#8217;re any better.)  Basically its a matter of how much light gets to where it actually needs to go, which is kind of bad in a plant, but the efficiency once it gets where it needs to go is pretty darn high.  Our solar cells are quite good at absorbing light, generally being blue black, but their quantum efficiency isn&#8217;t as high.  Overall our solar cells are much more efficient than photosynthesis, but I can&#8217;t grow a crop of solar panels by sticking single cells in the ground and watering them.</p>
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		<title>By: CarlMN</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/05/11/harvesting-electricity-from-plants-plant-based-energy-generation/#comment-161279</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[CarlMN]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 May 2013 16:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=51605#comment-161279</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[So, Daniel, what is the difference between typical solar cells and this photosynthetic process in terms of electrical power efficiency? And what determines the electrical efficiency of each process?

There are many ways to evaluate what might be judged as &quot;best.&quot;  Considering the environmental impacts of mining and processing solar cell components, photosynthesis seems to be &quot;best&quot; in terms of being &quot;greenest&quot; in more ways than one.

If you&#039;re doing ultrafast research, I suspect you must be way ahead of most everyone else in the field (of green).  ;-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, Daniel, what is the difference between typical solar cells and this photosynthetic process in terms of electrical power efficiency? And what determines the electrical efficiency of each process?</p>
<p>There are many ways to evaluate what might be judged as &#8220;best.&#8221;  Considering the environmental impacts of mining and processing solar cell components, photosynthesis seems to be &#8220;best&#8221; in terms of being &#8220;greenest&#8221; in more ways than one.</p>
<p>If you&#8217;re doing ultrafast research, I suspect you must be way ahead of most everyone else in the field (of green).  <img src="http://cleantechnica.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif" alt=";-)" class="wp-smiley" /></p>
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		<title>By: San Diego Loves Green &#8211; Harvesting Electricity From Plants</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/05/11/harvesting-electricity-from-plants-plant-based-energy-generation/#comment-161256</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[San Diego Loves Green &#8211; Harvesting Electricity From Plants]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 May 2013 12:01:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=51605#comment-161256</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] following article was written by Nathan and originally posted in Clean Technica; Image Credit: Leaf via Wikimedia [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] following article was written by Nathan and originally posted in Clean Technica; Image Credit: Leaf via Wikimedia [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Wilcox</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/05/11/harvesting-electricity-from-plants-plant-based-energy-generation/#comment-161249</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Daniel Wilcox]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 May 2013 11:09:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=51605#comment-161249</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think we need to be careful about saying photosynthetic plants are &quot;the best solar power plants in the world.&quot; There are certainly many things going for plants, including high quantum efficiency. What needs to be remembered is that quantum efficiency is not the same thing as energy efficiency: the electrons come out with much lower energy than the photons going in.

At the end of the day, energy efficiency is almost always more important than quantum efficiency, and by that metric commercial solar cells have a clear advantage.

For background: I do ultrafast research on photosynthesis, motivated in part because of its high quantum efficiency and the potential implications for solar power.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think we need to be careful about saying photosynthetic plants are &#8220;the best solar power plants in the world.&#8221; There are certainly many things going for plants, including high quantum efficiency. What needs to be remembered is that quantum efficiency is not the same thing as energy efficiency: the electrons come out with much lower energy than the photons going in.</p>
<p>At the end of the day, energy efficiency is almost always more important than quantum efficiency, and by that metric commercial solar cells have a clear advantage.</p>
<p>For background: I do ultrafast research on photosynthesis, motivated in part because of its high quantum efficiency and the potential implications for solar power.</p>
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