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	<title>Comments on: Much More Clean, Renewable Energy Could Be Integrated Into Grid &#8212; No Problem</title>
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	<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/04/22/much-more-clean-renewable-energy-could-be-integrated-into-grid-no-problem/</link>
	<description>Clean Tech News &#38; Views: Solar Energy News. Wind Energy News. EV News. &#38; More.</description>
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		<title>By: New Low-Cost, Long-Life Flow Battery Design May Be The Best Yet For Intermittent Renewables &#124; PlanetSave</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/04/22/much-more-clean-renewable-energy-could-be-integrated-into-grid-no-problem/#comment-159645</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[New Low-Cost, Long-Life Flow Battery Design May Be The Best Yet For Intermittent Renewables &#124; PlanetSave]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Apr 2013 03:29:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=50979#comment-159645</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] As more and more renewable energy capacity is added to the grid it becomes more and more important to find ways to &#8220;smooth out&#8221; the fluctuations that accompany these intermittent sources. Though, it&#8217;s important to note that the these &#8220;issues&#8221; are much less of a problem than critics make them out to be. In fact, recent research has shown that the US could integrate and balance many times the current level of renewables with no additional reliabi.... [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] As more and more renewable energy capacity is added to the grid it becomes more and more important to find ways to &#8220;smooth out&#8221; the fluctuations that accompany these intermittent sources. Though, it&#8217;s important to note that the these &#8220;issues&#8221; are much less of a problem than critics make them out to be. In fact, recent research has shown that the US could integrate and balance many times the current level of renewables with no additional reliabi&#8230;. [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Bob_Wallace</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/04/22/much-more-clean-renewable-energy-could-be-integrated-into-grid-no-problem/#comment-159486</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob_Wallace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Apr 2013 18:55:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=50979#comment-159486</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Plus, we don&#039;t need a high percentage of solar roofs.

If you put enough panels on your roof to produce your annual electricity you will be producing about five times what you need when the Sun is shining.  (4.5 average sunny hours / 24 hours = 19%).



If one out of five households is producing solar then they are, during the sunny hours, producing about what all households can utilize.


If half of all households and half of all businesses installed solar we would not be able to use all the electricity produced.  (Assuming no additional storage installed.)


--


Installing on east-/west-facing roofs does produce a bit less electricity but it also lengthens the solar day.  Right now Germany has enough solar on line to wipe out their midday peak and lower wholesale prices to the level of nighttime power.  But they still have pre-solar morning and post-solar afternoon peaks.  Mounting some panels facing the rising and the setting Sun could wipe out those cost peaks.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Plus, we don&#8217;t need a high percentage of solar roofs.</p>
<p>If you put enough panels on your roof to produce your annual electricity you will be producing about five times what you need when the Sun is shining.  (4.5 average sunny hours / 24 hours = 19%).</p>
<p>If one out of five households is producing solar then they are, during the sunny hours, producing about what all households can utilize.</p>
<p>If half of all households and half of all businesses installed solar we would not be able to use all the electricity produced.  (Assuming no additional storage installed.)</p>
<p>&#8212;</p>
<p>Installing on east-/west-facing roofs does produce a bit less electricity but it also lengthens the solar day.  Right now Germany has enough solar on line to wipe out their midday peak and lower wholesale prices to the level of nighttime power.  But they still have pre-solar morning and post-solar afternoon peaks.  Mounting some panels facing the rising and the setting Sun could wipe out those cost peaks.</p>
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		<title>By: arne-nl</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/04/22/much-more-clean-renewable-energy-could-be-integrated-into-grid-no-problem/#comment-159482</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[arne-nl]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Apr 2013 17:23:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=50979#comment-159482</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;However, many cannot — about 75% is the figure I’ve read.&quot;


I severely doubt that. Please don&#039;t keep repeating it. Read Joe Romm about the power of repetition.


This figure is very suspect and was probably achieved by things like: 

- excluding east and west facing roofs. They are perfectly suitable for solar, but generate a little less energy (like 20%). Still can be very profitable with today&#039;s low solar panel prices. I have an installation facing west, and it has good yield, although I&#039;ve had it for less than a year, so I can not draw any solid conclusions.
- excluding rental homes. The house can be perfectly suitable, but what needs some work is perhaps landlords&#039; attitudes.
- excluding apartments. An apartment building has a roof. Each owner could use a part of the roof for his own solar installation, or you could combine forces and put up a shared installation. This happens in the Netherlands. But it is true that apartment dwellers will have difficulty generating enough to cover 100% of their energy use.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;However, many cannot — about 75% is the figure I’ve read.&#8221;</p>
<p>I severely doubt that. Please don&#8217;t keep repeating it. Read Joe Romm about the power of repetition.</p>
<p>This figure is very suspect and was probably achieved by things like: </p>
<p>&#8211; excluding east and west facing roofs. They are perfectly suitable for solar, but generate a little less energy (like 20%). Still can be very profitable with today&#8217;s low solar panel prices. I have an installation facing west, and it has good yield, although I&#8217;ve had it for less than a year, so I can not draw any solid conclusions.<br />
&#8211; excluding rental homes. The house can be perfectly suitable, but what needs some work is perhaps landlords&#8217; attitudes.<br />
&#8211; excluding apartments. An apartment building has a roof. Each owner could use a part of the roof for his own solar installation, or you could combine forces and put up a shared installation. This happens in the Netherlands. But it is true that apartment dwellers will have difficulty generating enough to cover 100% of their energy use.</p>
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		<title>By: Zachary Shahan</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/04/22/much-more-clean-renewable-energy-could-be-integrated-into-grid-no-problem/#comment-159430</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Zachary Shahan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Apr 2013 08:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=50979#comment-159430</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[from our sidebar: http://cleantechnica.com/70-80-99-9-100-renewables-study-central/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>from our sidebar: <a href="http://cleantechnica.com/70-80-99-9-100-renewables-study-central/" rel="nofollow">http://cleantechnica.com/70-80-99-9-100-renewables-study-central/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Bob_Wallace</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/04/22/much-more-clean-renewable-energy-could-be-integrated-into-grid-no-problem/#comment-159306</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob_Wallace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Apr 2013 19:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=50979#comment-159306</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There&#039;s getting to be quit a body of literature which deals with the feasibility of an almost 100% renewable grid.  Let me share what I&#039;ve pulled together to date...




A four year real-time study showing a major US grid could run on almost 100% renewables at an affordable cost.
Budischak, Sewell, Thomson, Mach, Veron, and Kempton
https://docs.google.com/file/d/1NrBZJejkUTRYJv5YE__kBFuecdDL2pDTvKLyBjfCPr_8yR7eCTDhLGm8oEPo/edit
--

Powering New York State with only wind, solar and water.
Jacobson, et al.
http://www.stanford.edu/group/efmh/jacobson/Articles/I/NewYorkWWSEnPolicy.pdf
and
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=how-to-power-the-world&amp;page=2
--

An all renewable Australian grid...
Elliston,  MacGill, and Diesendort
http://reneweconomy.com.au/2013/baseload-power-is-a-myth-even-intermittent-renewables-will-work-92421
and
http://www.ies.unsw.edu.au/sites/all/files/profile_file_attachments/LeastCostElectricityScenariosInPress2013.pdf

And from the Elliston, et al. paper -

&quot;Numerous scenario studies have been published that model the potential for
countries, regions, and the entire world, to meet 80{100% of end-use energy
demand from renewable energy by some future date, typically mid-century. Na-
tional scenarios exist for Australia (Wright and Hearps, 2010; Elliston et al.,
2012b), Ireland (Connolly et al., 2011), New Zealand (Mason et al., 2010), Por-
tugal (Krajacic et al., 2011), the Republic of Macedonia (Cosic et al., 2012), 
Japan (Lehmann, 2003), the United Kingdom (Kemp and Wexler, 2010), the
United States (Hand et al., 2012), Germany (German Advisory Council on the
Environment, 2011) and Denmark (Lund and Mathiesen, 2009). More broadly,
regional studies have been produced for Europe (European Climate Foundation,
2010; Rasmussen et al., 2012), northern Europe (Srensen, 2008), and several
studies of the global situation have been produced including by Srensen and
Meibom (2000), Jacobson and Delucchi (2011), Delucchi and Jacobson (2011),
Teske et al. (2012) and WWF (2011).&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s getting to be quit a body of literature which deals with the feasibility of an almost 100% renewable grid.  Let me share what I&#8217;ve pulled together to date&#8230;</p>
<p>A four year real-time study showing a major US grid could run on almost 100% renewables at an affordable cost.<br />
Budischak, Sewell, Thomson, Mach, Veron, and Kempton<br />
<a href="https://docs.google.com/file/d/1NrBZJejkUTRYJv5YE__kBFuecdDL2pDTvKLyBjfCPr_8yR7eCTDhLGm8oEPo/edit" rel="nofollow">https://docs.google.com/file/d/1NrBZJejkUTRYJv5YE__kBFuecdDL2pDTvKLyBjfCPr_8yR7eCTDhLGm8oEPo/edit</a><br />
&#8212;</p>
<p>Powering New York State with only wind, solar and water.<br />
Jacobson, et al.<br />
<a href="http://www.stanford.edu/group/efmh/jacobson/Articles/I/NewYorkWWSEnPolicy.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.stanford.edu/group/efmh/jacobson/Articles/I/NewYorkWWSEnPolicy.pdf</a><br />
and<br />
<a href="http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=how-to-power-the-world&#038;page=2" rel="nofollow">http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=how-to-power-the-world&#038;page=2</a><br />
&#8212;</p>
<p>An all renewable Australian grid&#8230;<br />
Elliston,  MacGill, and Diesendort<br />
<a href="http://reneweconomy.com.au/2013/baseload-power-is-a-myth-even-intermittent-renewables-will-work-92421" rel="nofollow">http://reneweconomy.com.au/2013/baseload-power-is-a-myth-even-intermittent-renewables-will-work-92421</a><br />
and<br />
<a href="http://www.ies.unsw.edu.au/sites/all/files/profile_file_attachments/LeastCostElectricityScenariosInPress2013.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.ies.unsw.edu.au/sites/all/files/profile_file_attachments/LeastCostElectricityScenariosInPress2013.pdf</a></p>
<p>And from the Elliston, et al. paper &#8211;</p>
<p>&#8220;Numerous scenario studies have been published that model the potential for<br />
countries, regions, and the entire world, to meet 80{100% of end-use energy<br />
demand from renewable energy by some future date, typically mid-century. Na-<br />
tional scenarios exist for Australia (Wright and Hearps, 2010; Elliston et al.,<br />
2012b), Ireland (Connolly et al., 2011), New Zealand (Mason et al., 2010), Por-<br />
tugal (Krajacic et al., 2011), the Republic of Macedonia (Cosic et al., 2012), <br />
Japan (Lehmann, 2003), the United Kingdom (Kemp and Wexler, 2010), the<br />
United States (Hand et al., 2012), Germany (German Advisory Council on the<br />
Environment, 2011) and Denmark (Lund and Mathiesen, 2009). More broadly,<br />
regional studies have been produced for Europe (European Climate Foundation,<br />
2010; Rasmussen et al., 2012), northern Europe (Srensen, 2008), and several<br />
studies of the global situation have been produced including by Srensen and<br />
Meibom (2000), Jacobson and Delucchi (2011), Delucchi and Jacobson (2011),<br />
Teske et al. (2012) and WWF (2011).&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Bob_Wallace</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/04/22/much-more-clean-renewable-energy-could-be-integrated-into-grid-no-problem/#comment-159305</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob_Wallace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Apr 2013 19:21:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=50979#comment-159305</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[On the nuclear component.  I also expect nuclear will go away based on its cost.  But if we did need as much as we now have on the grid we could probably replace existing units with new reactors on the same real estate.  NIMBY issues are less in those areas.


More likely renewables + storage or geothermal or tidal will fill the role now played by nuclear.  To the extent we actually need some &quot;always on&quot; generation rumbling along in the background.  Budischak found we don&#039;t.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the nuclear component.  I also expect nuclear will go away based on its cost.  But if we did need as much as we now have on the grid we could probably replace existing units with new reactors on the same real estate.  NIMBY issues are less in those areas.</p>
<p>More likely renewables + storage or geothermal or tidal will fill the role now played by nuclear.  To the extent we actually need some &#8220;always on&#8221; generation rumbling along in the background.  Budischak found we don&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob_Wallace</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/04/22/much-more-clean-renewable-energy-could-be-integrated-into-grid-no-problem/#comment-159301</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob_Wallace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Apr 2013 17:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=50979#comment-159301</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[We&#039;ve had some good news recently concerning EGS.  A new plant has come on line, not a big one but another example that the technology can work.  Australia is apparently close to bringing a much larger plant on line.


Additionally AltaRock was able to create heat collection fields at different depths in a well which multiplies the amount of heat that can be extracted from a single set of bores.  And they did the rock-shearing with biodegradable materials rather than fracking chemicals.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We&#8217;ve had some good news recently concerning EGS.  A new plant has come on line, not a big one but another example that the technology can work.  Australia is apparently close to bringing a much larger plant on line.</p>
<p>Additionally AltaRock was able to create heat collection fields at different depths in a well which multiplies the amount of heat that can be extracted from a single set of bores.  And they did the rock-shearing with biodegradable materials rather than fracking chemicals.</p>
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		<title>By: Zachary Shahan</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/04/22/much-more-clean-renewable-energy-could-be-integrated-into-grid-no-problem/#comment-159267</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Zachary Shahan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Apr 2013 12:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=50979#comment-159267</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[yes, they&#039;re quite clear that they&#039;re being conservative. on the one hand, good to show that even if technology didn&#039;t advance, we have great potential. but would be nice if they did some &quot;projection&quot; scenarios.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yes, they&#8217;re quite clear that they&#8217;re being conservative. on the one hand, good to show that even if technology didn&#8217;t advance, we have great potential. but would be nice if they did some &#8220;projection&#8221; scenarios.</p>
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		<title>By: James Wimberley</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/04/22/much-more-clean-renewable-energy-could-be-integrated-into-grid-no-problem/#comment-159258</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[James Wimberley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Apr 2013 10:28:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=50979#comment-159258</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The report assumes a rather large nuclear capacity in 2050,similar to today&#039;s. This implies the replacement of a number of reactors reaching the end of their safe working life. Given nuclear&#039;s negative learning curve and strong NIMBY opposition, the scenario is implausible. On the other hand, the report is extremely conservative on geothermal.The low penetration is only plausible if you think that EGS will fail comprehensively and we are stuck with hydrothermal in a few places. On a 37-year horizon, I don&#039;t buy this at all. EGS has been technically proved in pilots, the problem is to lower costs and raise efficiencies - why shouldn&#039;t this happen, even at the current low levels of investment?

What is valuable in the report, like others before it, is that it shows you can solve the alleged &quot;intermittency&quot; problem of mass wind and solar under conservative assumptions, not the most probable ones.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The report assumes a rather large nuclear capacity in 2050,similar to today&#8217;s. This implies the replacement of a number of reactors reaching the end of their safe working life. Given nuclear&#8217;s negative learning curve and strong NIMBY opposition, the scenario is implausible. On the other hand, the report is extremely conservative on geothermal.The low penetration is only plausible if you think that EGS will fail comprehensively and we are stuck with hydrothermal in a few places. On a 37-year horizon, I don&#8217;t buy this at all. EGS has been technically proved in pilots, the problem is to lower costs and raise efficiencies &#8211; why shouldn&#8217;t this happen, even at the current low levels of investment?</p>
<p>What is valuable in the report, like others before it, is that it shows you can solve the alleged &#8220;intermittency&#8221; problem of mass wind and solar under conservative assumptions, not the most probable ones.</p>
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