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	<title>Comments on: Energy Secretary Nominee: Need Carbon Price To Double Or Triple Cost Of Dirty Energy</title>
	<atom:link href="http://cleantechnica.com/2013/04/08/energy-secretary-nominee-need-carbon-price-to-double-or-triple-cost-of-dirty-energy/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/04/08/energy-secretary-nominee-need-carbon-price-to-double-or-triple-cost-of-dirty-energy/</link>
	<description>Clean Tech News &#38; Views: Solar Energy News. Wind Energy News. EV News. &#38; More.</description>
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		<title>By: Zachary Shahan</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/04/08/energy-secretary-nominee-need-carbon-price-to-double-or-triple-cost-of-dirty-energy/#comment-157821</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Zachary Shahan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Apr 2013 09:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=50540#comment-157821</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Tbh, think that would work better than EnergyStar. People are very nervous about appearing &#039;bad&#039;, and while there&#039;s a stimulas to appearing like a &#039;star,&#039; i don&#039;t think it&#039;s as strong (and especially not in this market).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tbh, think that would work better than EnergyStar. People are very nervous about appearing &#8216;bad&#8217;, and while there&#8217;s a stimulas to appearing like a &#8216;star,&#8217; i don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s as strong (and especially not in this market).</p>
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		<title>By: Zachary Shahan</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/04/08/energy-secretary-nominee-need-carbon-price-to-double-or-triple-cost-of-dirty-energy/#comment-157820</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Zachary Shahan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Apr 2013 09:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=50540#comment-157820</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Love the idea of a grade system.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Love the idea of a grade system.</p>
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		<title>By: Otis11</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/04/08/energy-secretary-nominee-need-carbon-price-to-double-or-triple-cost-of-dirty-energy/#comment-157718</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Otis11]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Apr 2013 01:23:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=50540#comment-157718</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, first to decrease the adverse effect of the carbon tax you should phase it in exponentially over the next 7 years. Start very low, and then increase rapidly until it hits the desired price. 

Also, if you make 100% of the revenue go immediately into re-investment there is little economic impact to to depress any economic activity. Arguably it would have no impact as it would dramatically increase re-investment (This is not true of any other tax I am aware of, but no other tax has 100% re-investment)


As for the tea-party. I believe if you said that you were using the money to make government more energy efficient (and therefore decrease cost-of-business for the government to continue running, and therefore it will require less in the future to run) and required that the money low interest/interest free loans come from private banks/institutions and the money simply pays the interest for a set number of years, they would have little room to argue as it would not increase the size of government. Also, it would arguably be (somewhat) temporary as we will most likely go carbon neutral or carbon negative by the end of my lifetime. 

But I agree, I would absolutely support your proposition if we could get it passed (and yes, yours would have a higher probability of getting passed). I&#039;m just dreaming about ideal solutions...


Although, if you started my proposition in California, Colorado, New York, Mass., New Jersey, etc and showed how it spurred re-investment and lowered government costs, I think it stands a fair chance. You just have to have a state willing to run it as a proof of concept.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, first to decrease the adverse effect of the carbon tax you should phase it in exponentially over the next 7 years. Start very low, and then increase rapidly until it hits the desired price. </p>
<p>Also, if you make 100% of the revenue go immediately into re-investment there is little economic impact to to depress any economic activity. Arguably it would have no impact as it would dramatically increase re-investment (This is not true of any other tax I am aware of, but no other tax has 100% re-investment)</p>
<p>As for the tea-party. I believe if you said that you were using the money to make government more energy efficient (and therefore decrease cost-of-business for the government to continue running, and therefore it will require less in the future to run) and required that the money low interest/interest free loans come from private banks/institutions and the money simply pays the interest for a set number of years, they would have little room to argue as it would not increase the size of government. Also, it would arguably be (somewhat) temporary as we will most likely go carbon neutral or carbon negative by the end of my lifetime. </p>
<p>But I agree, I would absolutely support your proposition if we could get it passed (and yes, yours would have a higher probability of getting passed). I&#8217;m just dreaming about ideal solutions&#8230;</p>
<p>Although, if you started my proposition in California, Colorado, New York, Mass., New Jersey, etc and showed how it spurred re-investment and lowered government costs, I think it stands a fair chance. You just have to have a state willing to run it as a proof of concept.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob_Wallace</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/04/08/energy-secretary-nominee-need-carbon-price-to-double-or-triple-cost-of-dirty-energy/#comment-157706</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob_Wallace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Apr 2013 22:36:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=50540#comment-157706</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If you plop down a big carbon tax you stand to depress economic activity (something we don&#039;t need at the moment) and you make it harder to sell to the voting public.


Pass the revenues on to end-users and the price of electricity won&#039;t change.  The economy will be fine and swarms of teabaggers won&#039;t be waving their walkers at town halls because their power bill went up.


Spending the money on efficiency, etc. would be better but it&#039;s all about the art of finding the possible....]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you plop down a big carbon tax you stand to depress economic activity (something we don&#8217;t need at the moment) and you make it harder to sell to the voting public.</p>
<p>Pass the revenues on to end-users and the price of electricity won&#8217;t change.  The economy will be fine and swarms of teabaggers won&#8217;t be waving their walkers at town halls because their power bill went up.</p>
<p>Spending the money on efficiency, etc. would be better but it&#8217;s all about the art of finding the possible&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Otis11</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/04/08/energy-secretary-nominee-need-carbon-price-to-double-or-triple-cost-of-dirty-energy/#comment-157694</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Otis11]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Apr 2013 21:26:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=50540#comment-157694</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Use the carbon revenues to offset any price rise at the retail level.&quot;

I wouldn&#039;t mind that at all... although it would probably be better overall to use the revenue to implement energy efficiency improvements. Especially to fund efficiency improvements in public buildings and non-for-profits. They could also use a portion to give people and businesses low-interest or interest-free loans for energy efficient upgrades.

Then not only do we offset the price increase (through lower consumption) but we do double duty at increasing the percentage of energy we get from renewables by reducing total demand.

Thoughts?

--

As for the Energy hog label - we already have the Energy Star label which has low enough standards. If it doesn&#039;t qualify for the Energy Star standards it&#039;s by default and Energy Hog. I really think we should just implement scaled ratings. Average every product on the market together and establish that as a C rating. Then you say

A+ = 70% More efficient than average
A   = 60%
A-  = 50%
B+ = 40%
B   = 30%
B-  = 20%
C+ = 10%
C   = 0 (average by definition)
C-  = -5%
D+ = -10%
D   = -15%
D-  = -20%
F    = -25% Less efficient than average

Then you update this every year. As products get more efficient on average, it will be harder and harder to get the highest rankings. Also, you could potentially ban anything that fails from being sold the following year, forcing the shift upward, but some might say that would be government overstepping its bounds. Comments?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Use the carbon revenues to offset any price rise at the retail level.&#8221;</p>
<p>I wouldn&#8217;t mind that at all&#8230; although it would probably be better overall to use the revenue to implement energy efficiency improvements. Especially to fund efficiency improvements in public buildings and non-for-profits. They could also use a portion to give people and businesses low-interest or interest-free loans for energy efficient upgrades.</p>
<p>Then not only do we offset the price increase (through lower consumption) but we do double duty at increasing the percentage of energy we get from renewables by reducing total demand.</p>
<p>Thoughts?</p>
<p>&#8212;</p>
<p>As for the Energy hog label &#8211; we already have the Energy Star label which has low enough standards. If it doesn&#8217;t qualify for the Energy Star standards it&#8217;s by default and Energy Hog. I really think we should just implement scaled ratings. Average every product on the market together and establish that as a C rating. Then you say</p>
<p>A+ = 70% More efficient than average<br />
A   = 60%<br />
A-  = 50%<br />
B+ = 40%<br />
B   = 30%<br />
B-  = 20%<br />
C+ = 10%<br />
C   = 0 (average by definition)<br />
C-  = -5%<br />
D+ = -10%<br />
D   = -15%<br />
D-  = -20%<br />
F    = -25% Less efficient than average</p>
<p>Then you update this every year. As products get more efficient on average, it will be harder and harder to get the highest rankings. Also, you could potentially ban anything that fails from being sold the following year, forcing the shift upward, but some might say that would be government overstepping its bounds. Comments?</p>
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		<title>By: Bob_Wallace</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/04/08/energy-secretary-nominee-need-carbon-price-to-double-or-triple-cost-of-dirty-energy/#comment-157656</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob_Wallace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Apr 2013 17:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=50540#comment-157656</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Use the carbon revenues to offset any price rise at the retail level.


--


Create an &quot;Energy Hog&quot; label and slap it on stuff that uses significantly more power than comparable stuff. 


Yeah, I know.  But a guy can always dream....]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Use the carbon revenues to offset any price rise at the retail level.</p>
<p>&#8212;</p>
<p>Create an &#8220;Energy Hog&#8221; label and slap it on stuff that uses significantly more power than comparable stuff. </p>
<p>Yeah, I know.  But a guy can always dream&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Otis11</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/04/08/energy-secretary-nominee-need-carbon-price-to-double-or-triple-cost-of-dirty-energy/#comment-157567</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Otis11]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Apr 2013 23:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=50540#comment-157567</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[See, I don&#039;t think doubling or tripling the cost of FF energy will significantly increase the consumer&#039;s cost of electricity... If done correctly with a phase-in period (as opposed to just starting it), it will allow us time to ramp up the transition. Consumer electricity costs will increase moderately at first, but as technology gets better and installations increase, that will drop again.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>See, I don&#8217;t think doubling or tripling the cost of FF energy will significantly increase the consumer&#8217;s cost of electricity&#8230; If done correctly with a phase-in period (as opposed to just starting it), it will allow us time to ramp up the transition. Consumer electricity costs will increase moderately at first, but as technology gets better and installations increase, that will drop again.</p>
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