Comments on: Energy Payback Of Solar Rocks It! (Graph)

By: Bob_Wallace

Bob_Wallace — Tue, 06 May 2014 06:28:00 +0000

Yes, there is industrial waste created by solar panel manufacturing. And some Chinese plants were dumping it inappropriately back in 2008 when your article was written.

China has cleaned up some since. How much, we don’t know.

The US disposes of their waste appropriately. It’s trucked to dumps which are designed to contain the waste. China needs to be doing the same, if they aren’t.

Now, let’s go back to my question. ” Is it anything like mountains of fly ash or uranium tailings?” Here’s what Wiki has to say about coal fly ash –

“In the United States about 131 million tons of fly ash are produced annually by 460 coal-fired power plants.”

In 2012 China burned 4.3x as much coal as the US, so 563 million tons of fly ash for China might be a good estimate.

And from your link –

” The combined capacity of these new factories is estimated at 80,000 to 100,000 tons”

100k tons is 1.7% of million tons.

Molehill, meet mountain….

By: Billy Dee Sorrells

Billy Dee Sorrells — Tue, 06 May 2014 05:51:00 +0000

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/08/AR2008030802595.html that’s sludge. As for the degradation rate I guess you’re right the my information was old data the current agrees with you

By: Ivor O'Connor

Ivor O'Connor — Fri, 13 Sep 2013 20:49:00 +0000

The graph does not look right. I tried putting a ruler up to it and it certainly looks off scale.

By: Ivor O'Connor

Ivor O'Connor — Fri, 13 Sep 2013 20:48:00 +0000

I’ve heard right wing talk show hosts talk about all this horrible toxic sludge that is produced when making PV panels. Perhaps that is what you are referring to?

By: Bob_Wallace

Bob_Wallace — Fri, 13 Sep 2013 20:28:00 +0000

Well, since solar panels lose about 0.5% output per year the end of life cycle you’re talking about would be 70 years, not the 20-30 years in the article.

And the “hazardous sludge” – where does one find that? Is it anything like mountains of fly ash or uranium tailings?

By: Billy Dee Sorrells

Billy Dee Sorrells — Fri, 13 Sep 2013 20:21:00 +0000

Two things I figure someone should point out. Your graph is incorrect because solar panels energy is degraded every year of use by the end of their life cycle they can be as low as 35% of the original output, therefore a flat bar is not accurate. Two you did not mention the hazardous sludge that is created by making solar panels. Even with those it is still a better alternative than petrol, but you make yourself seem untruthful by not disclosing all the facts.

By: Zachary Shahan

Zachary Shahan — Wed, 20 Mar 2013 20:49:00 +0000

shocking. wow.

By: Zachary Shahan

Zachary Shahan — Wed, 20 Mar 2013 20:48:00 +0000

totally.

By: Bob_Wallace

Bob_Wallace — Tue, 19 Mar 2013 20:21:00 +0000

I don’t think pickups are going to hold the tops spots for much longer, if they still do. It seems to me that we’ve passed the pickup fad phase like we earlier passed the SUV and the earlier minivan fad phases.

Most “pickups” now being sold are not really pickups. They’re four door sedans with trunks without lids. Those mini-beds are an insult to pickups. Can’t haul a decent load of horse poop for the garden in one of those things.

By: Otis11

Otis11 — Tue, 19 Mar 2013 18:35:00 +0000

That’s what I’m saying – Diesel Hybrid Pick-up with 45 miles of all-electric range.

People buy what they want, not what makes the most economic sense nor what is best for the environment.

By: Erika Tate

Erika Tate — Sun, 17 Mar 2013 23:53:00 +0000

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Romeo since getting a check for $8033 this – 4 weeks past and also ten/k
last munth. this is really the easiest job I’ve had. I started this
7-months ago and immediately startad bringin in at least $78 per-hour. I
went to this site,, jump15.comCHECK IT OUT

By: doug card

doug card — Sat, 16 Mar 2013 22:40:00 +0000

I was surprised as well

http://online.wsj.com/mdc/public/page/2_3022-autosales.html

By: Zachary Shahan

Zachary Shahan — Sat, 16 Mar 2013 22:23:00 +0000

“two best selling cars in the US are pick-up trucks” — are you serious? that’s shocking to me. can you provide a link/source?

By: Zachary Shahan

Zachary Shahan — Sat, 16 Mar 2013 22:23:00 +0000

excellent comment, thanks!

By: globi

globi — Sat, 16 Mar 2013 16:07:00 +0000

Meanwhile a PV-system and an economy car together are cheaper than a pick-up truck.
The two best selling cars in the US are pick-up trucks, but for some reason nobody talks about their energy payback respectively their massive energy loss…

By: Benny

Benny — Sat, 16 Mar 2013 13:51:00 +0000

No I will never give my solar energy to the grid, I’d rather waste the excess I produce then give it to cowboys that don’t care about the planet. These cowboys are those who live on the grid pretending to save the planet, while living on coal energy, unlike me who is self-sufficient and self sustainable, supplying all my own energy needs without been connected to the grid, unlike these cowboys with grid connected solar system cashing in for a buck. While people like me did the right thing by the environment, while those other people with grid connected solar systems are damaging the environment and been dependent on subsidies…

By: Kompulsa

Kompulsa — Sat, 16 Mar 2013 12:52:00 +0000

Good point.

By: anderlan

anderlan — Sat, 16 Mar 2013 12:27:00 +0000

It makes total sense that the energy “profitability” point would be same time as the monetary profitability point because the cost of manufacturing energy is a good component of the whole cost of something made largely of sand and a handful of aluminum cans.

There is a rash of conservative articles talking about the carbon intensity of EV batteries and solar panels. Have these outlets suddenly gotten carbon-footprint religion? No, of course not. They are simply showing that they are subservient to the old order, and to the companies that take the depend on constantly taking a share of the money of hardworking people forever and ever–petrol, gas, and power companies.

Suddenly, when the money argument for EVs and solar panels starts to make sense for a good portion of the people, suddenly these conservative outlets are not concerned about saving you and me money on gas or power, but on the environment. WHAT?!?

No. As I said the energy (carbon intensity) cost of panels and batteries are rolled into the price by the market. (AND, the energy can come from any number of sources, not just carbonaceous ones.) SO, when the economics make sense, so do the climate concerns. It’s hilarious that these pundits would, after having been so concerned about the economic equation not working for the people of the world for sooo long, that they now are concerned about the greenhouse gas impacts the moment the economic equation looks good. Don’t let the greedy lying bastards keep taking our money.

By: Bob_Wallace

Bob_Wallace — Fri, 15 Mar 2013 20:55:00 +0000

I suspect we are already putting more electricity on the grid in a year than we are using to manufacture panels during that year.

One could probably guestimate it by taking the total number of installed watts, multiplying by about 0.2 (capacity) and then by 0.5 (energy recovery time) and see if that number is higher than the wattage of panels we’re producing.

By: Jouni Valkonen

Jouni Valkonen — Fri, 15 Mar 2013 19:34:00 +0000

When solar gets cheapest form of energy, then we can produce solar electricity to manufacture solar panels. Then the payback time drops into zero.

There is also good to consider that both silicon and aluminum frames are fully recyclable. This halves the actual energy payback time.