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	<title>Comments on: EU Cracks Down On German Grid Fee Exemptions</title>
	<atom:link href="http://cleantechnica.com/2013/03/11/eu-cracks-down-on-german-grid-fee-exemptions-should-do-same-for-renewable-energy-surcharge-exceptions/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/03/11/eu-cracks-down-on-german-grid-fee-exemptions-should-do-same-for-renewable-energy-surcharge-exceptions/</link>
	<description>Clean Tech News &#38; Views: Solar Energy News. Wind Energy News. EV News. &#38; More.</description>
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		<title>By: Ivor O'Connor</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/03/11/eu-cracks-down-on-german-grid-fee-exemptions-should-do-same-for-renewable-energy-surcharge-exceptions/#comment-154401</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ivor O'Connor]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Mar 2013 13:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=49405#comment-154401</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That would be great. These numbers need to be published though to remove all lingering doubts. People need to see where the money goes so they can make up their own minds. Nobody trusts energy monopolies for good reason.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That would be great. These numbers need to be published though to remove all lingering doubts. People need to see where the money goes so they can make up their own minds. Nobody trusts energy monopolies for good reason.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Hans</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/03/11/eu-cracks-down-on-german-grid-fee-exemptions-should-do-same-for-renewable-energy-surcharge-exceptions/#comment-154390</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hans]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Mar 2013 12:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=49405#comment-154390</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;It seems possible to me that much of the costs involved in maintaining a grid is due to individual hookups.&quot;

This is not the case. Most costs are for building and maintaining transmission lines (on all voltage levels), transformer stations and for balance control. The costs of hooking up to the grid are peanuts compared to that. 

In Germany the way grid fees are calculated is not set by the utilities*, but by the government. It choose to subsidise energy intensive companies like aluminium melters by exempting them from the grid fee, and thus increasing the fees for normal households and small companies. There is no cost-based rational behind it as you seem to think.

* utilities in the old sense don&#039;t exist anymore because the utility companies have been broken up.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;It seems possible to me that much of the costs involved in maintaining a grid is due to individual hookups.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is not the case. Most costs are for building and maintaining transmission lines (on all voltage levels), transformer stations and for balance control. The costs of hooking up to the grid are peanuts compared to that. </p>
<p>In Germany the way grid fees are calculated is not set by the utilities*, but by the government. It choose to subsidise energy intensive companies like aluminium melters by exempting them from the grid fee, and thus increasing the fees for normal households and small companies. There is no cost-based rational behind it as you seem to think.</p>
<p>* utilities in the old sense don&#8217;t exist anymore because the utility companies have been broken up.</p>
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		<title>By: Ivor O'Connor</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/03/11/eu-cracks-down-on-german-grid-fee-exemptions-should-do-same-for-renewable-energy-surcharge-exceptions/#comment-154341</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ivor O'Connor]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Mar 2013 02:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=49405#comment-154341</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks Thomas but I&#039;m still where I started from in terms of understanding. Though it is good to know the monopolies were broken to some extent that are still driving us bonkers here in America. Let me explain my concerns that did not get answered.


It seems possible to me that much of the costs involved in maintaining a grid is due to individual hookups. It is possible that each location may cost on the order of X euros to maintain a year. Whether the location uses 1kWh or 10,000kWhs. These grid owners may simply be trying to extract X euros to cover X costs per year, with a little markup, and the public may not realize it. So if they charge the household that is consuming only 1kWh a rate of Y and the factory consuming 10,000kWhs a rate of .001Y it could be said they are subsidizing household consumers yet the public sees it in just the opposite way.


There must be a reason why these large utilities are doing what they are. I&#039;d like to get a real understanding.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Thomas but I&#8217;m still where I started from in terms of understanding. Though it is good to know the monopolies were broken to some extent that are still driving us bonkers here in America. Let me explain my concerns that did not get answered.</p>
<p>It seems possible to me that much of the costs involved in maintaining a grid is due to individual hookups. It is possible that each location may cost on the order of X euros to maintain a year. Whether the location uses 1kWh or 10,000kWhs. These grid owners may simply be trying to extract X euros to cover X costs per year, with a little markup, and the public may not realize it. So if they charge the household that is consuming only 1kWh a rate of Y and the factory consuming 10,000kWhs a rate of .001Y it could be said they are subsidizing household consumers yet the public sees it in just the opposite way.</p>
<p>There must be a reason why these large utilities are doing what they are. I&#8217;d like to get a real understanding.</p>
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		<title>By: ThomasGerke</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/03/11/eu-cracks-down-on-german-grid-fee-exemptions-should-do-same-for-renewable-energy-surcharge-exceptions/#comment-154288</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ThomasGerke]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Mar 2013 19:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=49405#comment-154288</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Excuse if I answer in too general ways:
In Germany / EU the electricity market was liberalized in the late 1990s. In Europe that means that instead of regulated vertically integrated utilities operating as a regional monopoly, the functions of such a monpoly have been split up. Today stuff like power generation, transmission, distripution, sales,... are seperate enterprises with more or less competition. 

Since the grid is a natural monopoly, it remains a regulated market. The grid  fees are what electricity traders have to pay/charge for using the grid, when selling electricity to customers. How high the grid fees are, depends on which grid level customers  tap into the grid.

All grid fee payments feed into a big pile of money that funds the transmission grid, the distripution grid(s), several hundred thousend transformer stations and balancing power plants (system services to keep the grid stable). 

A few years ago the government has excempt big consumers from grid fees =&gt; increasing the grid fees of the rest of the customers. 

Now the EU (AND a German court) crack down on these excemption that can only be seen as special favours too some special interessts. (an industry lobbyist has been very successful ;-) )

The excemptions are aditionally questionable, because despite much ado nothing, the grid fees are actually about 20% lower than they were 7 years ago.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excuse if I answer in too general ways:<br />
In Germany / EU the electricity market was liberalized in the late 1990s. In Europe that means that instead of regulated vertically integrated utilities operating as a regional monopoly, the functions of such a monpoly have been split up. Today stuff like power generation, transmission, distripution, sales,&#8230; are seperate enterprises with more or less competition. </p>
<p>Since the grid is a natural monopoly, it remains a regulated market. The grid  fees are what electricity traders have to pay/charge for using the grid, when selling electricity to customers. How high the grid fees are, depends on which grid level customers  tap into the grid.</p>
<p>All grid fee payments feed into a big pile of money that funds the transmission grid, the distripution grid(s), several hundred thousend transformer stations and balancing power plants (system services to keep the grid stable). </p>
<p>A few years ago the government has excempt big consumers from grid fees =&gt; increasing the grid fees of the rest of the customers. </p>
<p>Now the EU (AND a German court) crack down on these excemption that can only be seen as special favours too some special interessts. (an industry lobbyist has been very successful <img src="http://cleantechnica.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif" alt=";-)" class="wp-smiley" /> )</p>
<p>The excemptions are aditionally questionable, because despite much ado nothing, the grid fees are actually about 20% lower than they were 7 years ago.</p>
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		<title>By: Ivor O'Connor</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2013/03/11/eu-cracks-down-on-german-grid-fee-exemptions-should-do-same-for-renewable-energy-surcharge-exceptions/#comment-154269</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ivor O'Connor]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Mar 2013 15:50:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=49405#comment-154269</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Seems complicated to me. What exactly is this grid fee suppose to pay for? Is it for the hook up and maintenance of the connection? Without knowing the full picture I don&#039;t want to throw stones.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seems complicated to me. What exactly is this grid fee suppose to pay for? Is it for the hook up and maintenance of the connection? Without knowing the full picture I don&#8217;t want to throw stones.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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