Comments on: Majority Of Ohio Voters Support Renewable Energy

By: Zachary Shahan

Zachary Shahan — Wed, 27 Feb 2013 23:57:00 +0000

Ah, yes, that was the 4th point I wanted to make in response to Todd!

By: Zachary Shahan

Zachary Shahan — Wed, 27 Feb 2013 23:53:00 +0000

haha, nice table turning.

By: Zachary Shahan

Zachary Shahan — Wed, 27 Feb 2013 23:52:00 +0000

Todd:

1- yes, many polls have been conducted on how much more people would pay for clean energy, and the results are positive.
2- this is probably because somewhere in their heads, people realize they are paying a ton for dirty energy in health bills, sickness, and even early death.
3- the subsidies for dirty energy are tremendous. pretending like they are not is a scam/BS.
http://cleantechnica.com/2013/02/07/energy-subsidies-clean-energy-subsidies-fossil-fuel-subsidies/ http://cleantechnica.com/2013/02/07/oil-subsidies-natural-gas-subsidies/

By: Otis11

Otis11 — Wed, 27 Feb 2013 23:44:00 +0000

A few problems – First, renewables are not significantly more expensive than traditional energy sources, if at all, even without subsidies. They are also becoming more and more economical every day, and have the built in insurance of constant, predictable costs decades into the future. (well, an established maximum cost, they could also have a technical breakthrough that would significantly decrease the cost of electricity) This also completely ignores the fact of externalities produced by the FFs.

“even if one assumes that many Americans truly valueand are able and willing to pay for renewable energy, it does not justify
forcing a segment of the population that may not.”

But on the flip side, “even if one assumes that many Americans are willing to deal with the pollution of Fossil Fuels, it does not justify forcing a segment of the population that may not.”

How do you answer that part?

The problem for renewables is not a lack of support from the public, nor a lack of economically or technically feasible methods to carry it out. It is simply the newcomer and the incumbent does not want to change.

By: Otis11

Otis11 — Wed, 27 Feb 2013 23:37:00 +0000

“Perhaps even in more telling is that fact 65%” => Consider revising?

“As mentioned above, 65% said they have total support, with another 35% saying their support is strong. So, 90% support overall for clean energy is very impressive.” => 65%+35% = 100%, but even with the math correct this is incorrect. That 35% is a subset of the 65%, not in addition to it…

By: slean guy

slean guy — Wed, 27 Feb 2013 22:48:00 +0000

Thanks Joe ; you get it. these guys start conversations to get a reaction by saying stupid things

By: Joe Murtaugh

Joe Murtaugh — Wed, 27 Feb 2013 21:22:00 +0000

To pay for shills and hacks like Todd Wynn and Brodeur.

By: slean guy

slean guy — Wed, 27 Feb 2013 20:45:00 +0000

Todd, by the way have you ever heard of master limited partnerships; a big tax credit that goes to owners of oil and natural gas pipeline and storage assets to the tune of 10’s of billions per year in lost treasury revenues or sweet heart deals lacking royalty payments for another 7.3 billion annually. We are talking about industries that have been around for over a century and why do they need tax breaks and subsidies?

By: slean guy

slean guy — Wed, 27 Feb 2013 20:34:00 +0000

you could ask those last two questions of fossil fuel. but since most respondents would like renewable s i am sure you would not like the answers

By: Todd Wynn

Todd Wynn — Wed, 27 Feb 2013 19:55:00 +0000

The truth of the matter is that people are supportive of advancing and investing in renewable energy as long as they are not forced to pay for it.

Renewable energy mandates embed the higher cost of renewable energy into electricity rates (or, in the case of subsidies, into tax rates), making it difficult for
electricity consumers to even see the precise cost impacts of integrating
renewable energy onto the electricity grid.

When asked about directly paying a higher cost for electricity, the public support
for these policies wanes significantly. A Financial Times/Harris Poll surveyed
household members who pay the electricity bill in France, Germany, Great Britain, Spain, Italy and the United States. The first question asked, “How much do you [favor] or oppose a large increase in the number of wind farms in [your country]?” 87 percent of U.S. respondents marked either “favor
more than oppose” or “strongly favor.”

The respondents were then asked “How much of an increase would you be willing
to pay at the most, for energy if it were from renewable resources?” Out of the
U.S. respondents, 34 percent said “nothing more” and 17 percent said up to 5
percent more. If the cost of electricity were to increase to 20 percent,
support for renewable energy plummets to a mere 5 percent of respondents.

However, even if one assumes that many Americans truly value
and are able and willing to pay for renewable energy, it does not justify
forcing a segment of the population that may not.

Lastly, if people truly support renewable energy then why would a mandate be
needed in the first place?