Does ANYONE think that they would be happier if smartphones did not charge off the grid while you were sleeping at night, but you had to go to a special smartphone refuelling kiosk every few days to recharge it?

I’ve updated the cost comparison spreadsheet (link below). A few notes:

1- Maintenance costs were never calculated in the initial spreadsheet. There was a placeholder for them, but perhaps I decided to leave them out of the calculation due to uncertainty with the EV costs. (So, initial benefit to the gasmobiles there.)

A study on the difference in costs was recently published on this matter, so the maintenance costs are now based on that, and included in the calculation.

2- Projected battery replacement costs are now included, based on projections by U.S. Energy Secretary Steven Chu. (They don’t really change much. The EV savings at 9 years go from $20,746 to $17,896. Not insignificant, but insignifiant when it comes to which car wins based on price alone.)

3- I’ve put a call-out for more input on the assumptions used, and I’ll soon do comparisons with more competitive EVs (the Ford Focus Electric isn’t exactly the most competitive EV on the market. ;D) Thanks for pushing me to do better calculations… which I imagine are simply going to put EVs in better light. But we’ll see….

Link to the spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AsDzwXJeEr1pdDVxT245YWlMLXBPWFF2enB4NjFEeHc#gid=0

I just don’t enjoy reading a bunch of crappy pieces.

Thanks for the link.

Regarding your a, b, c points to Bob — I agree that these are the technological issues holding back faster growth. But I think it’s their overhype that has really caused the problem. With a bit of thinking (as you know) they aren’t the issue they’re made out to be. But people get scared easily, especially about change. (But perhaps people are really so cautious about those things themselves that the anti-EV hype doesn’t change things a whole lot, as you suggest.)

Sales — Yep, completely agree. Another point that has been manipulated and confused. My latest post was on just that matter: http://evobsession.com/evs-are-selling-much-better-than-hybrids-at-this-stage-of-their-lives-note-that-the-toyota-prius-is-the-3rd-most-popular-car-in-the-world/

Zach,
I’m not asking you to drop the point you make, just to be a little clearer so some individuals cannot spin it on you. One of the funniest arguments I’ve heard is that it’s easier to refuel at a gas station than to charge an EV at home. Boy does that come from a well heeled paradigm. It makes no sense.

Both,
This is not really that big a deal, but it is causing you to miss the broader picture some. I don’t agree that EVs are being held back because of ignorance. (Actually, I don’t agree their being held back at all.) Broder is just another nayser without large effect really. EVs are being held back because of:
(a) Cost of the vehicles (Mostly the battery, but also the car itself since EVs are mechanically far simpler than fossil fuel vehicles and the lower cost of the vehicle should help make up for part of the battery cost.)
(b) Shorter range combined with fewer refueling stations than for fossil fuel vehicles.
(c) Longer refueling times during long trips.

All of these will be improving rapidly now that there is an established market. A good chunk of this is nothing more than economies of scales, as Bob has written somewhere.

Fact is some EVs are already more economical than fossil fuel vehicles for the short trips most North Americans take on a daily basis. (50% less than 26 miles per day; 78% less than 40 miles per day) If you are a two car family, with half a brain cell to use planning trips, then an EV will save you money and protect you in the event of any future world oil crisis. You will still be able to get to work, get the kids to school, and get to the store. If you only have one car and can rent of borrow a fossil fuel vehicle then the same applies. If you live in Hawaii, the Caribbean, or some other island, or in a place like Israel (bordered on all sides by hostile countries and the Mediterranean) then one of the current EVs on the market is all you’ll ever need. This is not true for longer trips, but for most longer trips are less essential for most people. (That’s a statistical fact.)

EVs are not actually being held back at all. They are just selling a little slower than Carlos Ghosn expected and seem to be selling a little slower than PHEVs and EREVs in the North American market. [Small wonder, since EREVs like the GM Volt completely solve problems (b) and (c) above and will sooner solve problem (a) since their required battery size is smaller.] EVs, PHEVs, and EREVs are all selling way better than Hybrids like the Prius did in their first few years. Again, small wonder since the available fuel savings from all three of these vehicle types is leaps and bounds more than it is for hybrids. Do you really care which one is selling best as long as they’re all starting to replace the old smelly alternative?

KEEP A CLEAR HEAD AND SMILE. WE’RE WINNING THIS! THERE IS NO QUESTION THE DEMISE OF FOSSIL FUELS VEHICLES IS AT HAND… WE’RE JUST GETTING STARTED.

Sorry for any confusion I’ve helped create here.
mike

ps I think we’ll be surprised how fast this transition accelerates, and how fast people’s minds open, as their pocket book is able to benefit more and more. They’ll start learning VERY quickly.

It was a mistake to not be more accurate in the subheading. Wish I had noticed it myself before it confused people a bit.

As a long time interlocuter with the right-wing media and blogosphere, I can attest to how much they love to do that!

2- i’m into good perspective. i don’t like seeing misrepresentations of anything. the whole “inconvenience” thing is a misrepresentation that gets on my nerves. it’s simply faulty thinking (except in the less than 3% of US trips where range is an issue for a normal EV owner).

3- call whatever names you want if that makes you feel better. or have a civil discussion about the matter.

what’s the difference with the wait time? where do you go to relax and hang out — a gas station or your home?

But I do you think you should re-word your point No. 3 to make it more clear. Again, ‘3. Charging an EV is considerably … quicker than filling up a gas tank.’ (I removed the word ‘easier’ b/c my beef isn’t with that) is at best an incomplete version of what you’re trying to say. And taken as it is written, it appears to baldly misrepresent the facts. I suspect most people are like me and will read that sentence and think, what the hell? It takes longer to charge an EV battery than to fill up a gas tank, what’s this Zach guy trying to pull?

Again, I now understand what you were trying to convey, thanks to this conversation, and I think the point you’re making about the convenience of plugging in at home (when a driver adjusts their fueling maintenance to the needs of the EV) has a lot of merit.

FWIW, for many years I’ve done EV car owners one better in being green by not owning a car and using a bike or public transpo for my daily getting around needs (helps that I live in a big city of course …;-)