http://cleantechnica.com/2012/10/03/wind-solar-pushing-down-price-of-electricity-in-australia/

http://cleantechnica.com/world-wind-power/5/

Well, you finally reveal your true nature.

We wish you a fond goodbye and safe voyage to back under your bridge.

Wind
Solar
HydroPower
Geothermal
Biomass
Biodiesel
Ethanol

Some of those don’t even compete with coal. If you include ethanol then you should also compare to oil exploration, production and all refining jobs.

Plus, if you’re talking about wind and solar then you should include coal power plants.

That’s the most dishonest post I’ve ever seen. And you’re demonstrating that you don’t really want to discuss these issues.

You’re intractable and I leave you to you delusions.

http://www.eia.gov/coal/annual/

There are somewhere between 850,000 and 1,000,000 people employed in renewable energy.

http://www.eesi.org/fact-sheet-jobs-renewable-energy-and-energy-efficiency-01-jun-2011

Look for the renewable jobs to grow much faster now that wind and solar have continued to fall in price.

It looks to me as if we’ve created a ton of jobs with our subsidies. And we’re getting ready to create tons and tons more. There are more people working in solar than in coal. I’ll bet you that we’ll double that number over the next couple of years. We’re almost certainly going to see an avalanche of new solar with the enormous price drops.

Of course those technologies are mature. But we’re supposed to be discussing the current cost to employ them versus the current cost of renewables. Not a hypothetical future cost of wind.

Take a look at how much each technology received in its first 15 years.

http://cleantechnica.com/2011/09/27/early-fossil-fuel-nuclear-energy-subsidies-crush-early-renewable-energy-subsidies/subsidies-first-15-years-energy/

Then look at how much each has received over a century.

http://cleantechnica.com/2012/08/03/oil-gas-over-13-times-more-in-historical-subsidies-than-clean-energy/

Finally, factor in the fact that wind has decreased over 6x in the last 30 years, solar panels have fallen about 200x.

Oil and coal prices continue to increase.

You like the idea that 13,000 Americans die unnecessarily each year from coal pollution?

You like the idea that we pay almost $0.20/kWh for coal produced electricity.

The main reason we form governments is to protect ourselves against people and things that would harm us.

But regardless I thought we were discussing the actual economics of choosing the fuel. Most of the costs you mentioned are sunk.

if a city is deciding whether to build, natural gas, or renewables, the actual economics to them indicate natural gas is the cheapest.

That’s why so much natural gas is being built. Even in areas with portfolio standards, tariffs, and punitive regulation.

The costs to society as a whole may be higher

Coal isn’t directly subsidized, but tax money was used to build the railroads that haul the coal.

And tax dollars (along with health insurance premiums) pay the billions and billions dollars of health care costs resulting from burning coal.

If coal was forced to pay its external costs it would be the most expensive of all the ways we make electricity.

Your tax dollars and your health insurance premiums subsidize coal. Massively.

Buggy and harness manufacturers lost their jobs when we started driving cars.

Typesetters lost their jobs when we moved to computer printing.

The cost of natural gas has declined in a big way.

The FiT/subsidies for wind and solar are short lived. They will likely be over in the US after 2017. Subsidies for nuclear, coal and oil have been going on for many more decades than for wind and solar. And they will almost certainly keep going on long after 2017.

Wind and solar are are glide paths to become very affordable. Without subsidies.

The cost of nuclear and fossil fuel generation keeps on increasing.