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	<title>Comments on: Tesla’s Model S Our Century’s Model T?</title>
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	<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/10/30/teslas-model-s-our-centurys-model-t/</link>
	<description>Clean Tech News &#38; Views: Solar Energy News. Wind Energy News. EV News. &#38; More.</description>
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		<title>By: Bob_Wallace</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/10/30/teslas-model-s-our-centurys-model-t/#comment-140094</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob_Wallace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2012 17:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=44567#comment-140094</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, la-de-da.

La-de-da....]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, la-de-da.</p>
<p>La-de-da&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Conrad Clement</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/10/30/teslas-model-s-our-centurys-model-t/#comment-140091</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Conrad Clement]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2012 17:37:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=44567#comment-140091</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[An EV is an electric vehicle, and an UAV is an unmanned air vehicle -- so the term vehicle appears to be a generic expression. Hence, a flying electric vehicle isn&#039;t necessarily a flying electric car (be it one with detachable cockpit for use as an electric city-car...).

Model T, as the topic of this discussion, is more like a symbol that stands for a major break-through in individual mobility, or more precisely: individual automobility (whereby automobility in turn doesn&#039;t necessarily refer to the motorcar since its generic meaning is simply that of a vehicle moving on its own...).

Yet it is important to recognize that, paradoxically enough, this historical break-through in individual mobility referring to Henry Ford&#039;s Model T, was at the same time a fatal setback for individual freedom of movement -- since the then rulers thus intended to keep the masses grounded in order to preserve their exclusive control of the airspace for power enforcement from above.

And although GA has been allowed to flourish in the USA until the end of the seventies when GA aircraft sales reached 20&#039;000 p.a., this figure dropped to a mere 700 by the end of the nineties. Not at all because the average upper-middle-class American renounced his dream of a farmhouse with a private landing strip for his own personal aircraft -- but due to sharply increasing regulations intended to counter the steep ramping-up of GA aircraft performances through massively increasing use of fiber-reinforced composites threatening to wake up a sleeping giant named &#039;massively popularized individual aeromobility&#039;...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An EV is an electric vehicle, and an UAV is an unmanned air vehicle &#8212; so the term vehicle appears to be a generic expression. Hence, a flying electric vehicle isn&#8217;t necessarily a flying electric car (be it one with detachable cockpit for use as an electric city-car&#8230;).</p>
<p>Model T, as the topic of this discussion, is more like a symbol that stands for a major break-through in individual mobility, or more precisely: individual automobility (whereby automobility in turn doesn&#8217;t necessarily refer to the motorcar since its generic meaning is simply that of a vehicle moving on its own&#8230;).</p>
<p>Yet it is important to recognize that, paradoxically enough, this historical break-through in individual mobility referring to Henry Ford&#8217;s Model T, was at the same time a fatal setback for individual freedom of movement &#8212; since the then rulers thus intended to keep the masses grounded in order to preserve their exclusive control of the airspace for power enforcement from above.</p>
<p>And although GA has been allowed to flourish in the USA until the end of the seventies when GA aircraft sales reached 20&#8217;000 p.a., this figure dropped to a mere 700 by the end of the nineties. Not at all because the average upper-middle-class American renounced his dream of a farmhouse with a private landing strip for his own personal aircraft &#8212; but due to sharply increasing regulations intended to counter the steep ramping-up of GA aircraft performances through massively increasing use of fiber-reinforced composites threatening to wake up a sleeping giant named &#8216;massively popularized individual aeromobility&#8217;&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Bob_Wallace</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/10/30/teslas-model-s-our-centurys-model-t/#comment-140036</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob_Wallace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2012 06:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=44567#comment-140036</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think what Tesla has done is great.  I&#039;m a huge fan.


I watched the Leno/Model S video a couple nights ago.  I got a chance to take a good look at the &quot;$100k&quot; Roadster a couple of times.  Tesla has brought a much higher quality car to the market at a much better price with the S.

But it&#039;s going to take &quot;affordable&quot; to bring the mass market.  That might be happening with Nissan&#039;s and Ford&#039;s $199/mo leased EVs.  Someone with a significant commute could make out like a bandit with one of these leases. They could drive a brand new car for what they would have spent for gas and maintenance on a 25  - 30 MPG gasmobile.



The real breakthrough comes with a cheaper, higher capacity battery.  EVs should be cheaper to build than ICEVs and they are certainly cheaper to drive.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think what Tesla has done is great.  I&#8217;m a huge fan.</p>
<p>I watched the Leno/Model S video a couple nights ago.  I got a chance to take a good look at the &#8220;$100k&#8221; Roadster a couple of times.  Tesla has brought a much higher quality car to the market at a much better price with the S.</p>
<p>But it&#8217;s going to take &#8220;affordable&#8221; to bring the mass market.  That might be happening with Nissan&#8217;s and Ford&#8217;s $199/mo leased EVs.  Someone with a significant commute could make out like a bandit with one of these leases. They could drive a brand new car for what they would have spent for gas and maintenance on a 25  &#8211; 30 MPG gasmobile.</p>
<p>The real breakthrough comes with a cheaper, higher capacity battery.  EVs should be cheaper to build than ICEVs and they are certainly cheaper to drive.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam Johnston</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/10/30/teslas-model-s-our-centurys-model-t/#comment-140035</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Adam Johnston]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2012 05:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=44567#comment-140035</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great debate here about Tesla, the Model S against the Model T and Henry Ford. Bob, I think I was comparing what the Model T did 100 years ago, compared to what Elon Musk is doing now in 2012-13. Although Musk&#039;s Tesla Motors has gotten off to a slow start, if he and the company can hold on for another few years, then I see big things for them. With emergence of a rising middle class across the developed world who want a lifestyle like Americans, it will be very important to push EV&#039;s on the market faster. While Tesla is aiming for a more fancier crowd, the more ev&#039;s come on the market, regardless of what preference, it will benefit pushing the overall cost curve down.


As for flying cars, it could happen, but I won&#039;t spend my money on that idea, yet.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great debate here about Tesla, the Model S against the Model T and Henry Ford. Bob, I think I was comparing what the Model T did 100 years ago, compared to what Elon Musk is doing now in 2012-13. Although Musk&#8217;s Tesla Motors has gotten off to a slow start, if he and the company can hold on for another few years, then I see big things for them. With emergence of a rising middle class across the developed world who want a lifestyle like Americans, it will be very important to push EV&#8217;s on the market faster. While Tesla is aiming for a more fancier crowd, the more ev&#8217;s come on the market, regardless of what preference, it will benefit pushing the overall cost curve down.</p>
<p>As for flying cars, it could happen, but I won&#8217;t spend my money on that idea, yet.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob_Wallace</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/10/30/teslas-model-s-our-centurys-model-t/#comment-139947</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob_Wallace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2012 16:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=44567#comment-139947</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Did you say &quot;flying cars&quot;?


You said &quot;flying EVs&quot;.  I think that&#039;s close enough.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Did you say &#8220;flying cars&#8221;?</p>
<p>You said &#8220;flying EVs&#8221;.  I think that&#8217;s close enough.</p>
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		<title>By: Conrad Clement</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/10/30/teslas-model-s-our-centurys-model-t/#comment-139945</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Conrad Clement]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2012 16:26:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=44567#comment-139945</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Did I say &#039;flying cars&#039;?

You&#039;re stuck on that myth -- what I mean by a flying model T is an ultra-light electric vertical-take-off-and-landing personal tilt-rotor aircraft with a detachable, wheeled cockpit for driving into urban areas, while leaving the airframe anywhere at the vast urban periphery, with almost zero landing infrastructures needed -- except in places where the craft could dock to a platform at the top of a perch (like a bird) and have its cockpit winched down...

Because of a severe political ban on personal freedom of movement, light helicopter development could not unfold in the Soviet Union -- it needed a Russian immigrant, Igor Sikorsky, to come to the States to built the first commercial chopper.

Today, the ever more stringent US regulations imposed on GA (latest blow: Obama&#039;s 100$ tax for each flight), make it very improbable that a flying model T be ever developed in the USA -- it may need a Swiss inventor to immigrate into Russia... although if it were to be me, I would definitely not trust Vladimir Putin...

BTW, the tilt-rotor concept is indeed to date the only known to be eligible as successor of the motor car for extra-urban individual mobility -- but my own revolutionary concept is deemed to outfly the tilt-rotor in the longer run.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Did I say &#8216;flying cars&#8217;?</p>
<p>You&#8217;re stuck on that myth &#8212; what I mean by a flying model T is an ultra-light electric vertical-take-off-and-landing personal tilt-rotor aircraft with a detachable, wheeled cockpit for driving into urban areas, while leaving the airframe anywhere at the vast urban periphery, with almost zero landing infrastructures needed &#8212; except in places where the craft could dock to a platform at the top of a perch (like a bird) and have its cockpit winched down&#8230;</p>
<p>Because of a severe political ban on personal freedom of movement, light helicopter development could not unfold in the Soviet Union &#8212; it needed a Russian immigrant, Igor Sikorsky, to come to the States to built the first commercial chopper.</p>
<p>Today, the ever more stringent US regulations imposed on GA (latest blow: Obama&#8217;s 100$ tax for each flight), make it very improbable that a flying model T be ever developed in the USA &#8212; it may need a Swiss inventor to immigrate into Russia&#8230; although if it were to be me, I would definitely not trust Vladimir Putin&#8230;</p>
<p>BTW, the tilt-rotor concept is indeed to date the only known to be eligible as successor of the motor car for extra-urban individual mobility &#8212; but my own revolutionary concept is deemed to outfly the tilt-rotor in the longer run.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Wallace</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/10/30/teslas-model-s-our-centurys-model-t/#comment-139855</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob Wallace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2012 00:02:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=44567#comment-139855</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This introductory statement?

&quot;Henry Ford and the Model T revolutionized the automobile industry one century ago.&quot;

If anything, the Tesla Roadster was the EV that revolutionized the automobile industry.  The Roadster killed the myth that EVs were nothing but golf carts with roll-up windows.

There were other gasoline powered vehicles on the road when Henry&#039;s T came out.  But they weren&#039;t affordable enough for mass adoption.

The &quot;Model T&quot; EV is probably the Nissan Leaf.  The Leaf won&#039;t work for everyone, which was true of the Model T, but it offers an affordable no-gas vehicle.

As for flying cars - I wouldn&#039;t invest your retirement money it that idea.  (But I am considering increasing my holdings in tin foil manufacturing.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This introductory statement?</p>
<p>&#8220;Henry Ford and the Model T revolutionized the automobile industry one century ago.&#8221;</p>
<p>If anything, the Tesla Roadster was the EV that revolutionized the automobile industry.  The Roadster killed the myth that EVs were nothing but golf carts with roll-up windows.</p>
<p>There were other gasoline powered vehicles on the road when Henry&#8217;s T came out.  But they weren&#8217;t affordable enough for mass adoption.</p>
<p>The &#8220;Model T&#8221; EV is probably the Nissan Leaf.  The Leaf won&#8217;t work for everyone, which was true of the Model T, but it offers an affordable no-gas vehicle.</p>
<p>As for flying cars &#8211; I wouldn&#8217;t invest your retirement money it that idea.  (But I am considering increasing my holdings in tin foil manufacturing.)</p>
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		<title>By: Conrad Clement</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/10/30/teslas-model-s-our-centurys-model-t/#comment-139854</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Conrad Clement]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2012 23:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=44567#comment-139854</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Henry&#039;s Model T was cheap enough to be affordable for a large portion of Americans. The S isn&#039;t.&quot;

This introductory statement is in contradiction with your conclusion:

&quot;Tesla seems to have chosen the best approach for... (their time in history).&quot;

Being able to recognize that &quot;No, the S is not the the electric T&quot; obviously doesn&#039;t help Bob Wallace define what the electric model T should be...

I for one, would rather see an ultra-light electric VTOL aircraft as the game-changing 21st century achievement to boost individual mobility for all of us.

And note that our venerable tin Lizzy would have missed her career if the government had not sponsored extensive road-building to accommodate the 15 million units produced from 1908 to 1927 -- which means that Henry Ford has been granted official support for his game-changing venture...

As to our flying EVs: take it for granted that the US rulers will go out of their way to obstruct any development in this line -- although the corresponding game-changing infrastructure of the 21st century is already in place with the geostationary GPS satellites!

Hence, the vision of an electric model T leading to the transition from road-bound to airborne individual intercity traffic also means having the civil society reconquer the global airspace with myriads of personal aircraft in order to challenge US military air superiority about to close in on all other nations since the advent of drones.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Henry&#8217;s Model T was cheap enough to be affordable for a large portion of Americans. The S isn&#8217;t.&#8221;</p>
<p>This introductory statement is in contradiction with your conclusion:</p>
<p>&#8220;Tesla seems to have chosen the best approach for&#8230; (their time in history).&#8221;</p>
<p>Being able to recognize that &#8220;No, the S is not the the electric T&#8221; obviously doesn&#8217;t help Bob Wallace define what the electric model T should be&#8230;</p>
<p>I for one, would rather see an ultra-light electric VTOL aircraft as the game-changing 21st century achievement to boost individual mobility for all of us.</p>
<p>And note that our venerable tin Lizzy would have missed her career if the government had not sponsored extensive road-building to accommodate the 15 million units produced from 1908 to 1927 &#8212; which means that Henry Ford has been granted official support for his game-changing venture&#8230;</p>
<p>As to our flying EVs: take it for granted that the US rulers will go out of their way to obstruct any development in this line &#8212; although the corresponding game-changing infrastructure of the 21st century is already in place with the geostationary GPS satellites!</p>
<p>Hence, the vision of an electric model T leading to the transition from road-bound to airborne individual intercity traffic also means having the civil society reconquer the global airspace with myriads of personal aircraft in order to challenge US military air superiority about to close in on all other nations since the advent of drones.</p>
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		<title>By: Zachary Shahan</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/10/30/teslas-model-s-our-centurys-model-t/#comment-139830</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Zachary Shahan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2012 18:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=44567#comment-139830</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[thanks for the notes. updated the post.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thanks for the notes. updated the post.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: SecularAnimist</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/10/30/teslas-model-s-our-centurys-model-t/#comment-139740</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[SecularAnimist]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2012 18:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=44567#comment-139740</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The Tesla Model S is a high-performance luxury car for rich people.  It&#039;s not an affordable, utilitarian vehicle for routine daily use by ordinary working people like me.  The Honda Fit EV is a lot closer to a 21st century Model T than the Tesla.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Tesla Model S is a high-performance luxury car for rich people.  It&#8217;s not an affordable, utilitarian vehicle for routine daily use by ordinary working people like me.  The Honda Fit EV is a lot closer to a 21st century Model T than the Tesla.</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: mopper</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/10/30/teslas-model-s-our-centurys-model-t/#comment-139739</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[mopper]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2012 17:47:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=44567#comment-139739</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Also, the picture shows a Tesla Roadster, not a Model S...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, the picture shows a Tesla Roadster, not a Model S&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Bob_Wallace</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/10/30/teslas-model-s-our-centurys-model-t/#comment-139738</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob_Wallace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2012 17:20:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=44567#comment-139738</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[No, the S is not the electric T.


Henry&#039;s Model T was cheap enough to be affordable for a large portion of Americans.  The S isn&#039;t.


Henry&#039;s Model T was also a &#039;limited features&#039; car, it had to back up steep hills, had no windows, no windshield wipers, no electric starter.  The S is a luxury car with tremendous performance.


Tesla is approaching car manufacturing from the opposite direction that Henry used.  His approach worked for his time in history, Tesla seems to have chosen the best approach for theirs.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, the S is not the electric T.</p>
<p>Henry&#8217;s Model T was cheap enough to be affordable for a large portion of Americans.  The S isn&#8217;t.</p>
<p>Henry&#8217;s Model T was also a &#8216;limited features&#8217; car, it had to back up steep hills, had no windows, no windshield wipers, no electric starter.  The S is a luxury car with tremendous performance.</p>
<p>Tesla is approaching car manufacturing from the opposite direction that Henry used.  His approach worked for his time in history, Tesla seems to have chosen the best approach for theirs.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: correct</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/10/30/teslas-model-s-our-centurys-model-t/#comment-139737</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[correct]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2012 16:47:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=44567#comment-139737</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That&#039;s 0 to 100 kilometers per hour, 0 to 60 miles per hour.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s 0 to 100 kilometers per hour, 0 to 60 miles per hour.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: kevin</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/10/30/teslas-model-s-our-centurys-model-t/#comment-139730</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[kevin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2012 15:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=44567#comment-139730</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The acceleration is 0-60 MPH in 4 seconds, not KPH, but otherwise a good article.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The acceleration is 0-60 MPH in 4 seconds, not KPH, but otherwise a good article.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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