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	<title>Comments on: Ongoing Sharp Drop in Solar PV Cost Overlooked Amidst Trade Wars &amp; Insolvencies</title>
	<atom:link href="http://cleantechnica.com/2012/10/16/ongoing-sharp-drops-in-solar-pv-cost-overlooked-amidst-price-trade-wars-insolvencies/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/10/16/ongoing-sharp-drops-in-solar-pv-cost-overlooked-amidst-price-trade-wars-insolvencies/</link>
	<description>Clean Tech News &#38; Views: Solar Energy News. Wind Energy News. EV News. &#38; More.</description>
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		<title>By: Bob_Wallace</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/10/16/ongoing-sharp-drops-in-solar-pv-cost-overlooked-amidst-price-trade-wars-insolvencies/#comment-140620</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob_Wallace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Nov 2012 17:32:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=44034#comment-140620</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sure, you could do it with on-panel micro-inverters or with a single grid-tie inverter.   The latter might be the cheapest.

I have no idea what the 600 volt stuff is about.  Perhaps large commercial rooftop arrays are wired up that high in order to minimize connecting wire size.  I&#039;ve never seen residential voltages higher than ~120.  It does make sense to wire panels in series in order to ship higher voltage/lower amperage watts and minimize wire size.

You&#039;d need to check with your building department and figure out their requirements.  They might require that you run the wire in conduit (not a hard job) and you might need to hire a licensed electrician to check your panel wiring and do the final hookup to your house.

If you do set up your own system remember that it&#039;s likely to be putting out power for 30, 40, a bunch more years.  Don&#039;t build your rack out of something that will rot away.  

And make your rack adjustable so that you can go out about four times each year and tilt the panels toward the Sun as it rises and falls in the sky.

Here&#039;s a company that seems to have a good reputation and great prices -

http://www.sunelec.com/index.php?main_page=index&amp;cPath=1



They&#039;ve got grid-tied systems for under $2/watt.  That does not include racks, but they will help you design your rack and they sell parts at good prices.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sure, you could do it with on-panel micro-inverters or with a single grid-tie inverter.   The latter might be the cheapest.</p>
<p>I have no idea what the 600 volt stuff is about.  Perhaps large commercial rooftop arrays are wired up that high in order to minimize connecting wire size.  I&#8217;ve never seen residential voltages higher than ~120.  It does make sense to wire panels in series in order to ship higher voltage/lower amperage watts and minimize wire size.</p>
<p>You&#8217;d need to check with your building department and figure out their requirements.  They might require that you run the wire in conduit (not a hard job) and you might need to hire a licensed electrician to check your panel wiring and do the final hookup to your house.</p>
<p>If you do set up your own system remember that it&#8217;s likely to be putting out power for 30, 40, a bunch more years.  Don&#8217;t build your rack out of something that will rot away.  </p>
<p>And make your rack adjustable so that you can go out about four times each year and tilt the panels toward the Sun as it rises and falls in the sky.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a company that seems to have a good reputation and great prices &#8211;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.sunelec.com/index.php?main_page=index&#038;cPath=1" rel="nofollow">http://www.sunelec.com/index.php?main_page=index&#038;cPath=1</a></p>
<p>They&#8217;ve got grid-tied systems for under $2/watt.  That does not include racks, but they will help you design your rack and they sell parts at good prices.</p>
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		<title>By: James Van Damme</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/10/16/ongoing-sharp-drops-in-solar-pv-cost-overlooked-amidst-price-trade-wars-insolvencies/#comment-140616</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[James Van Damme]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Nov 2012 16:23:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=44034#comment-140616</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If I could get micro-inverter panels that I could put in the back yard where I have half an acre of weeds right now, I could do the installation myself and wouldn&#039;t need any of that expensive stuff. 600 volts??!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If I could get micro-inverter panels that I could put in the back yard where I have half an acre of weeds right now, I could do the installation myself and wouldn&#8217;t need any of that expensive stuff. 600 volts??!</p>
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		<title>By: Zachary Shahan</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/10/16/ongoing-sharp-drops-in-solar-pv-cost-overlooked-amidst-price-trade-wars-insolvencies/#comment-138245</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Zachary Shahan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2012 00:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=44034#comment-138245</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[whoa, didn&#039;t realize we had another Dutch reader! :D  several of you. :D hmm, maybe we could come pay you all a visit.... my partner and i met while doing 5 months of our graduate degrees there and fell in love with the country.... (well, i&#039;ve loved the country since i was a soccer-obsessed kid watching marco van basten and ruud gullit.) always thinking of heading back for a visit or longer.

anyway, will have to keep track of you all in case we do. :D]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>whoa, didn&#8217;t realize we had another Dutch reader! <img src="http://cleantechnica.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" class="wp-smiley" />  several of you. <img src="http://cleantechnica.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" class="wp-smiley" /> hmm, maybe we could come pay you all a visit&#8230;. my partner and i met while doing 5 months of our graduate degrees there and fell in love with the country&#8230;. (well, i&#8217;ve loved the country since i was a soccer-obsessed kid watching marco van basten and ruud gullit.) always thinking of heading back for a visit or longer.</p>
<p>anyway, will have to keep track of you all in case we do. <img src="http://cleantechnica.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" class="wp-smiley" /></p>
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		<title>By: tibi stibi</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/10/16/ongoing-sharp-drops-in-solar-pv-cost-overlooked-amidst-price-trade-wars-insolvencies/#comment-138137</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[tibi stibi]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Oct 2012 14:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=44034#comment-138137</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[here in Holland a friend if mine installed a 6 panel solar set for 500 €. that is including all electrical wires   ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>here in Holland a friend if mine installed a 6 panel solar set for 500 €. that is including all electrical wires   </p>
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		<title>By: Bob_Wallace</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/10/16/ongoing-sharp-drops-in-solar-pv-cost-overlooked-amidst-price-trade-wars-insolvencies/#comment-138056</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob_Wallace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Oct 2012 01:51:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=44034#comment-138056</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;You need a qualified roofer, a pre-installation survey, a structural survey, certificated scaffolding, a working at heights certificate, a risk analysis, consumer finance insurance, an annually inspected quality and control paperwork system, employers and public liability insurance a ticketed solar installer and a ticketed electrician and ongoing training for apprentices. &quot;

A solar installation company should have a qualified roofer and a electrician on staff or on call.  They should own the tools of the trade such as scaffolding, or rent it for unusual conditions.  They should carry insurance.  This is the sort of stuff any contractor deals with.

Germany isn&#039;t burning down houses and they install for much better prices.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;You need a qualified roofer, a pre-installation survey, a structural survey, certificated scaffolding, a working at heights certificate, a risk analysis, consumer finance insurance, an annually inspected quality and control paperwork system, employers and public liability insurance a ticketed solar installer and a ticketed electrician and ongoing training for apprentices. &#8221;</p>
<p>A solar installation company should have a qualified roofer and a electrician on staff or on call.  They should own the tools of the trade such as scaffolding, or rent it for unusual conditions.  They should carry insurance.  This is the sort of stuff any contractor deals with.</p>
<p>Germany isn&#8217;t burning down houses and they install for much better prices.</p>
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		<title>By: Zachary Shahan</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/10/16/ongoing-sharp-drops-in-solar-pv-cost-overlooked-amidst-price-trade-wars-insolvencies/#comment-138033</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Zachary Shahan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Oct 2012 00:32:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=44034#comment-138033</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Wow, most detailed explanation of what goes on there that we&#039;ve ever received in the comments. And is quite a list.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, most detailed explanation of what goes on there that we&#8217;ve ever received in the comments. And is quite a list.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Britsolar Ltd</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/10/16/ongoing-sharp-drops-in-solar-pv-cost-overlooked-amidst-price-trade-wars-insolvencies/#comment-137877</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Britsolar Ltd]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Oct 2012 10:04:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=44034#comment-137877</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You need a qualified roofer, a pre-installation survey, a structural survey, certificated scaffolding, a working at heights certificate, a risk analysis, consumer finance insurance, an annually inspected quality and control paperwork system, employers and public liability insurance a ticketed solar installer and a ticketed electrician and ongoing training for apprentices. You also have to include sales, finance, marketing, administration, purchasing and delivery costs. Most customers get at least three quotes which means that if the supplier is lucky he gets one third of the business he surveys and quotes for. If you buy cheap panels there is a warranty risk long term. You virtually always hit roof issues when you start fastening to the rafters . . and so it goes on. You typically get 600 DC volts off a panel array so wiring, connecting and verifying the inverter is not a trivial matter and safety rules have to be understood and observed. Every panel has to be independently tested and logged on-site using an irradiance meter before it is hoisted to the roof and the customer has to be supplied with all the system and warranty details including serial numbers in a comprehensive manual within 7 days  of commissioning. You have to notify the DNO before installation and you then have to register with the DNO for the FIT after signoff. You also have to return to the installation a couple of months later to check everything is safe. 

Installation costs are not trivial unless you want a cowboy industry and people standing out in the street at two in the morning watching their house burn down or water pouiring through the roof. In the UK the solar PV trade is one of the most highly regulated and regulation is a significant cost.

Were it so straightforward as simplifying roof fastenings we would all be happy but sadly it isn&#039;t.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You need a qualified roofer, a pre-installation survey, a structural survey, certificated scaffolding, a working at heights certificate, a risk analysis, consumer finance insurance, an annually inspected quality and control paperwork system, employers and public liability insurance a ticketed solar installer and a ticketed electrician and ongoing training for apprentices. You also have to include sales, finance, marketing, administration, purchasing and delivery costs. Most customers get at least three quotes which means that if the supplier is lucky he gets one third of the business he surveys and quotes for. If you buy cheap panels there is a warranty risk long term. You virtually always hit roof issues when you start fastening to the rafters . . and so it goes on. You typically get 600 DC volts off a panel array so wiring, connecting and verifying the inverter is not a trivial matter and safety rules have to be understood and observed. Every panel has to be independently tested and logged on-site using an irradiance meter before it is hoisted to the roof and the customer has to be supplied with all the system and warranty details including serial numbers in a comprehensive manual within 7 days  of commissioning. You have to notify the DNO before installation and you then have to register with the DNO for the FIT after signoff. You also have to return to the installation a couple of months later to check everything is safe. </p>
<p>Installation costs are not trivial unless you want a cowboy industry and people standing out in the street at two in the morning watching their house burn down or water pouiring through the roof. In the UK the solar PV trade is one of the most highly regulated and regulation is a significant cost.</p>
<p>Were it so straightforward as simplifying roof fastenings we would all be happy but sadly it isn&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: Ronald Brak</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/10/16/ongoing-sharp-drops-in-solar-pv-cost-overlooked-amidst-price-trade-wars-insolvencies/#comment-137808</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ronald Brak]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Oct 2012 01:25:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=44034#comment-137808</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[And they&#039;ve shut down another 360 megawatts of coal power in Australia, thanks to solar and wind and efficiency.  This time very dirty brown coal at Yallourn power station in Victoria Latrobe valley.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And they&#8217;ve shut down another 360 megawatts of coal power in Australia, thanks to solar and wind and efficiency.  This time very dirty brown coal at Yallourn power station in Victoria Latrobe valley.</p>
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		<title>By: Ronald Brak</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/10/16/ongoing-sharp-drops-in-solar-pv-cost-overlooked-amidst-price-trade-wars-insolvencies/#comment-137798</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ronald Brak]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Oct 2012 00:54:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=44034#comment-137798</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Joe, I can borrow money at about 7% and I&#039;m Australian.  Borrowing costs are less in the US.   The average cost of installed solar is about $3 a watt here and falling, making it the cheapest source of electricity available to Australians.  It&#039;s even cheaper in Germany.  I don&#039;t know what the average cost is in the United States, but I do know installations are being done for $3.75 a watt.  That makes is competitive with grid electricity for millions of Americans right now, without free panels.  At German installion costs point of use solar is competitive just about everywhere in the US.  Currently US solar is where Australia was a year or so ago.  Prepare to be amazed.  Or if you&#039;re not so easily amazed, just put in a solar system when it will save you money on your electricity bill, which, depending on where you live, might be now.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe, I can borrow money at about 7% and I&#8217;m Australian.  Borrowing costs are less in the US.   The average cost of installed solar is about $3 a watt here and falling, making it the cheapest source of electricity available to Australians.  It&#8217;s even cheaper in Germany.  I don&#8217;t know what the average cost is in the United States, but I do know installations are being done for $3.75 a watt.  That makes is competitive with grid electricity for millions of Americans right now, without free panels.  At German installion costs point of use solar is competitive just about everywhere in the US.  Currently US solar is where Australia was a year or so ago.  Prepare to be amazed.  Or if you&#8217;re not so easily amazed, just put in a solar system when it will save you money on your electricity bill, which, depending on where you live, might be now.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob_Wallace</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/10/16/ongoing-sharp-drops-in-solar-pv-cost-overlooked-amidst-price-trade-wars-insolvencies/#comment-137734</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob_Wallace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Oct 2012 18:47:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=44034#comment-137734</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Joe, there probably are some installers that are ripping people off, but there are others who are installing at retail grid parity prices.  


Panels and racks are already largely &#039;plug and play&#039;.  Labor costs are a modest part of the overall cost.  


Probably the place we need to concentrate is on permitting and paperwork fees.  That seems to be one place that Germany has really outdone us.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe, there probably are some installers that are ripping people off, but there are others who are installing at retail grid parity prices.  </p>
<p>Panels and racks are already largely &#8216;plug and play&#8217;.  Labor costs are a modest part of the overall cost.  </p>
<p>Probably the place we need to concentrate is on permitting and paperwork fees.  That seems to be one place that Germany has really outdone us.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Real</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/10/16/ongoing-sharp-drops-in-solar-pv-cost-overlooked-amidst-price-trade-wars-insolvencies/#comment-137733</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Joe Real]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Oct 2012 18:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=44034#comment-137733</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The top priority in solar industry is no longer in the manufacturing but how to tremendously reduce installation cost. Even if the cost of production has been brought down to zero, or even if the solar panels are now freely given, the cost to install them can&#039;t justify the value of the electricity they produce.  For example, the interest rates on the finance charges of the installation costs alone would be higher than the value of the electricity the installed panels will produce.  

In fact, the last bottleneck that is hindering the wide adoption of solar energy is the exorbitant price of installation. If these solar PV can be made into easier plug and play modules that can be installed by people of average skills, prices of installation would come down as an example. Manufacturing is no longer the profit center for solar PV, it is how to effectively lower the cost of installation.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The top priority in solar industry is no longer in the manufacturing but how to tremendously reduce installation cost. Even if the cost of production has been brought down to zero, or even if the solar panels are now freely given, the cost to install them can&#8217;t justify the value of the electricity they produce.  For example, the interest rates on the finance charges of the installation costs alone would be higher than the value of the electricity the installed panels will produce.  </p>
<p>In fact, the last bottleneck that is hindering the wide adoption of solar energy is the exorbitant price of installation. If these solar PV can be made into easier plug and play modules that can be installed by people of average skills, prices of installation would come down as an example. Manufacturing is no longer the profit center for solar PV, it is how to effectively lower the cost of installation.</p>
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