Comments on: ROI a Misused Metric for Electric Vehicles? (Response to “Honda Fit EV Faces Tough ROI Arguments”)

By: Zachary Shahan

Zachary Shahan — Fri, 29 Jun 2012 14:04:00 +0000

And really, that’s all that needs to be said on this front. One post on clean power, and one on energy efficiency, and that’s all this site really needs. If millions of people would drop by and read them daily.

Unfort., have to do that whole “attract them with honey” thing and post a lost on pretty tech to get even a few thousand eyes on the posts.

By: Breath on the Wind

Breath on the Wind — Fri, 29 Jun 2012 14:01:00 +0000

It is human nature to personify things we use. People sometimes “name” their cars, the arsonist makes a “bad” fire but in the fireplace it is a “nice” fire. With this tendency may come the also built in human mechanism to overlook the faults of what we bring close to us. Is an ROI that is “nobel” then not subject to questioning?

It seems almost like what is being encountered in quantum physics and some drug studies. We seem to change that which we study. The results become what is expected. At this juncture perhaps a better understanding of ourselves is more rewarding than further “perfection of the tool.”

By: Roelof Reineman

Roelof Reineman — Fri, 29 Jun 2012 12:23:00 +0000

Great points and agree, cars are more of an emotional status symbol than a bean-counted rationalle to just get from A to B

By: Neil Blanchard

Neil Blanchard — Fri, 29 Jun 2012 03:25:00 +0000

I know that oil is finite. I know that burning oil is ruining the only planet we have. I know that electricity can come from many sources that are virtually infinite. I know that electric cars are about 2-4X more efficient than any ICE car.

My next car will have a plug, and probably no tank at all. Fossil fuels are not any option that we can live with.

Neil

By: Jeremy

Jeremy — Fri, 29 Jun 2012 02:25:00 +0000

Au contraire, I do not think there is a perfect tool, only a tool used towards a more nobel ends a others used for less nobel ends.

By: Zachary Shahan

Zachary Shahan — Fri, 29 Jun 2012 01:37:00 +0000

good one.

By: Breath on the Wind

Breath on the Wind — Fri, 29 Jun 2012 00:47:00 +0000

Jeremy, I think you have the sense of the article (and the author’s perspective) that ROI is a tool that can be a potential aid in the right situation, but there is a long list of cautions. The title says “Misused” not “worthless”

Loveday makes assumptions that are hard on an EV, but I didn’t write the article to be hard on him. If that was my goal I would have made many more specific references to his writing.

You suggest that a more sophisticated tool might be perfect while I doubt that we will ever be free from having to stand back and see if the results make any sense. Tools will always be used to implement the will of people they are not independent and unbiased judges.

We may also differ between belief in the machine (tool) and trust in life. I love technology but don’t wish to make it my master. Judging from the responses here some might agree.

I am not sure I even object to people making profits on oil. I find myself more concerned with the use of those profits to destroy competition.

This is a cautionary tale that only starts with the misleading sense of certainty this tool can give us and touches upon human nature and the preferences of society. The theme is far too big for one little article and I am sure I will come back to it again.

By: Jeremy

Jeremy — Thu, 28 Jun 2012 21:23:00 +0000

I’m a project management student and recently looked at ROI myself for purchase of the LEAF and Solar PV residential installation combined. Combining the two maximizes the solar return by being able to use more electricity to offset petrol cost. The author makes good points about how Return on Investment can mis handle analysis based on the inputs. I disagree and agree with the author. If Loveday had used a more sophisticated model for ROI he could have included environmental factors as costs and the results would have been different. The tool ROI is not the problem because we will always use tools to get an outcome, its what outcome you are trying to achieve with a tool that makes the tool a friend or foe.

To contradict people who want to make profits off petrol and use ROI it is preferable to expose the skew instead of casting doubt on the tool.

By: RSDenton

RSDenton — Thu, 28 Jun 2012 19:31:00 +0000

I actually saw a Nissan LEAF sat on my local high street today.

My initial thought was ‘nice car’, secondary thought was recognition that it was a Leaf (never seen one in the wild before). Lastly it was pleasure that someone bought and was using one.

As per the other posts, ROI didn’t cross my mind once. I’d buy one for the same reason I buy fair trade food; because it pleases me.

–Also, they’re much better looking, and larger cars than they seem to be in photos.

By: Anne

Anne — Thu, 28 Jun 2012 15:08:00 +0000

One way to describe the process of buying a car is:

Which car people buy is determined for 90% by answering the question: “Do I want to be seen in it?”

By: Tommolog

Tommolog — Thu, 28 Jun 2012 14:48:00 +0000

If ROI was all that mattered, there would be no Mercedes, BMW, Jaguar, Cadillac, Audi, Lexus, etc. Buying an automobile is an emotional decision more so than a rational decision. ROI is a factor for many, but it’s certainly not the end-all, be-all that some people seem to make it out to be. I drive electric cars primarily because in my opinion it’s a better driving experience and the refueling process is much simpler. I pull into my garage and it takes me about 5 seconds to plug the car in. In the morning it’s ready for whatever I need it to do that day. My ROI is the enjoyment I get from the smooth, instant torque-acceleration, quiet cabin and the good feeling I get from knowing I’m driving on sunshine from my solar array.

By: jonesey jonesey

jonesey jonesey — Thu, 28 Jun 2012 14:03:00 +0000

ROI is useful for calculating monetary benefits, but it can’t possibly be the primary decision-making tool for automobile purchasing. Nobody calculates ROI when deciding between a Honda Civic and a BMW — the decision is about which car meets all sorts of goals more effectively.

By: Galen Townson

Galen Townson — Thu, 28 Jun 2012 13:23:00 +0000

Hence SROI or Social Return on Investment for stakeholder-driven non-financial valuation of social and environmental benefits.