Comments on: $2.24/Watt vs $4.44/Watt: Solar in Germany vs Solar in the US

By: Solar & Wind Energy Overview −Solar Love!

Solar & Wind Energy Overview −Solar Love! — Sat, 12 Jan 2013 00:55:14 +0000

[…] lot different than the price of solar power in Germany. We had an article back in June noting that installed solar power in Germany was at about $2.44/watt, while it was $4.44/watt in the US. The price of solar in both countries has dropped a bit since then, but the general difference […]

By: Tim Gulden

Tim Gulden — Mon, 01 Oct 2012 16:25:00 +0000

In Germany there are other costs that are not included like electrician AC hook up charges, extra AC hook-up material costs, data logger costs, and annual insurance costs. You will never see a 3kW system installed for a turn-key gross cost of 1.776€/W. Lets compare suns to suns (apples to apples as the saying goes)

By: Zachary Shahan

Zachary Shahan — Fri, 29 Jun 2012 00:58:00 +0000

I’m not sure if i follow — the revenue generated from the carbon tax is used to pay citizens who go solar? that’s the only policy i can make out of these comments, but haven’t heard of that before.

By: Zachary Shahan

Zachary Shahan — Fri, 29 Jun 2012 00:53:00 +0000

Too true.

Very well put. And yes, very sad. Wouldn’t it be something to have a CleanPolitica blog?!

Gosh, got me dreaming now.

By: wattleberry

wattleberry — Wed, 27 Jun 2012 16:27:00 +0000

Great! The ‘completely screwed’ posting is right on the button and just needs to be endlessly repeated, with the proven remedy, in the hope that it will eventually dawn on enough of the policy-makers that there is a symbiosis between our economic and ecological interests never admitted to up to now. ‘All’ you need to do to achieve it is to somehow get this message on our TV screens constantly, in the news and via drama. Maybe I’ve missed it, but have we had a long-running series yet depicting the effect of complacency on the human race? Perhaps a dramatised documentary? Whatever, but it would have to adhere to objective projections to be credible. Quite a challenge but what a way to get the message across. I reckon Spielburg could do it.

By: John Maton

John Maton — Mon, 25 Jun 2012 15:24:00 +0000

The installed cost (as per you link) is €6674 for a 3120W system = €2140 per KW v the german average of €1776 or 20% higher.

Of that €6674, installation accounts for €1500. Considering that the “kit” includes all of the mounting brackets, inverter, cables etc, the €1500 is paying just for labour. Rather a lot for the actual effort to install.

By: Bob_Wallace

Bob_Wallace — Fri, 22 Jun 2012 15:20:00 +0000

OK, I was using the word subsidy inappropriately. FiTs are not assistances paid.

Well, unless you think of them as funds taken from some (taxes) and paid to others via a guaranteed higher selling price.

I’m not very interested in the semantics of how renewables are supported during their development. The point is that Germany found a way to support an emerging market and build it to the point at which it has become self sustaining.

By: ThomasGerke

ThomasGerke — Fri, 22 Jun 2012 12:48:00 +0000

Well, the German FIT is not a subsidy, it’s a price garantee. It’s more like government mandated profitability for all renewable energy technologies. While it’s no subsidy by definiton, law or design, many call it a subsidy on purpose or carelessly. Those who do so on purpose do it more out of a free market ideology.

The FIT certainly created investment autonomy for everyone to launch his small and big business activities in the field of renewable energy. Households & businesses did choose to invest, which lead to new industries, new products and new services.

While we (germans) will pay for this government mandated renewable energy market, it wasn’t up front.

Fortschritt durch Investitionen & Technik.
Vorsprung durch Weitsicht.

Since energy and the destruction of the planet are political issues, government interference into the market has a massive legitimization.

Thank god that the politican who was the driving force behind the “Renewable Energy Act” had studied politics and economics.

By: ThomasGerke

ThomasGerke — Fri, 22 Jun 2012 12:32:00 +0000

My observation of the Japanese market is, that consumer sophistication is very very low. The average person won’t try to get the cheapest price, so my guess is that solar companies enjoy getting paid a huge amount for their products (rising profit margins)… Though this doesn’t explain why even foreign companies are able to aggresivly expand in the japanese market.

Perhaps this overpricing is balanced by all sorts of discounts that are usually offered. Buy a Toyota-Home and get a serious discount for a car or a “free” solar system.
It will be interessting how the market will develope with the new FIT in place.

By: wattleberry

wattleberry — Fri, 22 Jun 2012 08:25:00 +0000

Thanks for the ‘nomination’ but I’m too old to contemplate such a move. In any case I’m sure none of the existing democracies, conceived as they were in a much less complex world, is any longer capable of truly ‘representing the people’, no matter how noble the motives impelling individuals to take up the vocation in the first place. It’s strange how archaic the systems have remained when IT has transformed communications [and opportunities for representation]. No doubt the existing ‘representatives’ are in no more hurry to change the status quo on this as with any other issues because, whatever changes would occur, the common feature of a modernised political arrangement would be a dramatic reduction in their roles. This all the more ironic when the West is busy evangelising to the ‘unenlightened’ world. Just imagine a ‘CleanPolitica’ blog running alongside this one showing advancements in representation worldwide.
We’d surely be approaching Utopia.

By: Greg

Greg — Fri, 22 Jun 2012 01:33:00 +0000

Bob_Wallace

United States-based Westinghouse said today it had received a large order for its Grid tied Connect systems Solar Panels from Australian electrical retailer store. Westinghouse’s shipments in 2012 more than doubling from 2011 production levels under this new order. Word is the Australian electrical retailer store would have had to paid less than 50 cent USD per watt, given that trader are currently selling at 50 cent per watt in Australia.

By: Jim

Jim — Fri, 22 Jun 2012 01:19:00 +0000

Looking at eBay-au, nothing is selling on their. 200watt solar panels going around $200 – $260 AUD, however given I have seen them on eBay-au last week for $150 AUD which confirm that they must be getting solar panel at 50 cent a watt. The guys on eBay a back yard sellers and do not import solar panels; they sell at a large profit rate and not getting government handout to buy them. Also they have a 10% GST tax remove that from the prices and it even lower than those prices. Could be to do with mining minerals Australia have the world’s richest woman, in the next year she be the riches person in the world.

By: Lisa

Lisa — Fri, 22 Jun 2012 00:17:00 +0000

Bob_wallace it’s the case that we are been over charged in the US, my contacts in Australia say that Power Station & Polluting company are paying $23 AUD a ton under carbon tax, which that money is given back to the community as cash Under there labor federal government .

By: Bob_Wallace

Bob_Wallace — Thu, 21 Jun 2012 23:55:00 +0000

OK, I guess it’s the dense season here behind the Redwood Curtain.

If one of you folks down there would write a nice clear explanation of how your carbon tax system works I would appreciate it.

I’m now getting the feeling that “50 cents a watt” is some sort of post-government subsidy price and that may not be the case.

By: Kate.

Kate. — Thu, 21 Jun 2012 23:51:00 +0000

Bob_wallace have a look at Ben Ozman above, you will get your answer. They have a carbon tax running, Free installation under there Federal Government policy plus free solar panels to install them. No one buy solar panel any more for them self, as the Federal Government help covering the cost of the PV. Also in the States of Australia they get paid up to 60-80kw/h cent feed back to grid, they can make around $2000- $6000 quarter, plus the power company paying a extra 8-10cent kw/h on top of the 60-80kw/h cent feed back to the grid.

By: Bob_Wallace

Bob_Wallace — Thu, 21 Jun 2012 23:34:00 +0000

I’d like to understand, but I’m lacking adequate information.

How is a carbon tax making the price of solar panels 50 cents per watt? What company is manufacturing cheaply enough to sell panels at that price?

I can easily see how a carbon tax would drive up the price of fossil fuel generation, thus making solar and wind more competitive. And I can see how creating a much larger market for solar and wind would make them cheaper. We’ve seen that happen in Germany. But I can’t put together carbon tax = 50 cents/watt panels.

If you guys have pulled that off you have a major story to share with the rest of the world.

By: Bob_Wallace

Bob_Wallace — Thu, 21 Jun 2012 23:28:00 +0000

Looking at the “Australian Solar Warehouse” page I see only two panels offered.
One is a 190 watt panel for $AU525 or $AU2.76/watt.The other panel does not have a wattage rating. Looking at the model number it might be 240 watts. At $AU565 that would make it $AU2.35/watt.http://www.australiansolarwarehouse.com.au/index.php?route=product/category&path=35

By: Bob_Wallace

Bob_Wallace — Thu, 21 Jun 2012 23:20:00 +0000

Those are amazing numbers.

Can you provide links to any sites selling at those sorts of prices? I’d like to see what they are offering.

As far as I know there are no companies manufacturing for less than $0.70/watt. (I’m using US money, by the way.)

A quick look on the Sun Electronics page (generally the cheapest US seller) shows nothing under $1.18/watt. And that’s for panels only. No rack, no inverter, no wire, no installation.

Sun seems to get their best deals from factory overruns, bankrupt companies, and “seconds”.

By: Ben OZman

Ben OZman — Thu, 21 Jun 2012 23:19:00 +0000

What you guys need to under stand in Australia compared to the USA is that we have A CARBON TAX now in place, under Climate Change Laws which started from Prime Minister John Howard on 20 Nov 1997. Since than our Labor Government start-up the third round of John Howard climate change laws, known as a carbon tax. This is why solar panels have dropped in price under Prime Minister Julia Gillard, yesterday at the G20 she said it easy to go green, she challenge the market to drop solar panel prices even lower. Prime Minister Direct action on wind and solar power policy is working well.

By: Dave IN AU

Dave IN AU — Thu, 21 Jun 2012 22:55:00 +0000

Bob_Wallace: Regarding havey, yes it true that solar panel are been sold in Australia at 50 cent a watt, 200watt solar panel is costing 100USD. 5kw grid Solar rooftop solar system is going for $2,000 USD, we believe that cost could even drop to 20-30 cent a watt AUD/USD. Solar companies have dropped the price by 70% in the last 1 year. Even offering free installation for 1.5kw to 1.8kw grid solar system. In Australia Solar Warehouse, I just payed for 1.1kw Mono solar panels for $500 AUD this is about $492 USD.
The USA has lost the market buying power thus Australia became rich country.