<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: New Hydrogen Catalyst Takes off Like a Rocket</title>
	<atom:link href="http://cleantechnica.com/2012/06/16/pnnl-team-uses-biomimicry-faster-cheaper-hydrogen-catalyst/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/06/16/pnnl-team-uses-biomimicry-faster-cheaper-hydrogen-catalyst/</link>
	<description>Clean Tech News &#38; Views: Solar Energy News. Wind Energy News. EV News. &#38; More.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2014 01:34:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
		<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
		<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=4.0.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: jeffhre</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/06/16/pnnl-team-uses-biomimicry-faster-cheaper-hydrogen-catalyst/#comment-231137</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jeffhre]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2014 19:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=39124#comment-231137</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[yes, that is a loss :)
With your knowledge and means, you may want to look at fabricating a hydrogen separation and storage system. Then you could donate the extra solar panels to a good nonprofit org.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yes, that is a loss <img src="http://cleantechnica.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" class="wp-smiley" /><br />
With your knowledge and means, you may want to look at fabricating a hydrogen separation and storage system. Then you could donate the extra solar panels to a good nonprofit org.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John Bailo</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/06/16/pnnl-team-uses-biomimicry-faster-cheaper-hydrogen-catalyst/#comment-125322</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Bailo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jun 2012 03:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=39124#comment-125322</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If you want to expand the economy then these technologies call for a massive infusion of public and private capital.   Thousands of small cap firms should be pushing out every nuance of the science here.    There are too many dullards in the way. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you want to expand the economy then these technologies call for a massive infusion of public and private capital.   Thousands of small cap firms should be pushing out every nuance of the science here.    There are too many dullards in the way. </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bob_Wallace</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/06/16/pnnl-team-uses-biomimicry-faster-cheaper-hydrogen-catalyst/#comment-124505</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob_Wallace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=39124#comment-124505</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That&#039;s still a lot of infrastructure to create in order to convert electricity into hydrogen and then back into electricity later on.

Give us more affordable and higher capacity batteries and hydrogen energy storage for vehicles make no sense.

]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s still a lot of infrastructure to create in order to convert electricity into hydrogen and then back into electricity later on.</p>
<p>Give us more affordable and higher capacity batteries and hydrogen energy storage for vehicles make no sense.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Elliot boyers</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/06/16/pnnl-team-uses-biomimicry-faster-cheaper-hydrogen-catalyst/#comment-124467</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Elliot boyers]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:03:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=39124#comment-124467</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hydrogen can be made on site (@ Fuel stations) which means you&#039;ll cut out so much carbon from transportation of fuels. Solar Arrays combined with a wind turbine could also be coupled to the the filling station offsetting your energy demands..
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hydrogen can be made on site (@ Fuel stations) which means you&#8217;ll cut out so much carbon from transportation of fuels. Solar Arrays combined with a wind turbine could also be coupled to the the filling station offsetting your energy demands..</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bob_Wallace</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/06/16/pnnl-team-uses-biomimicry-faster-cheaper-hydrogen-catalyst/#comment-124387</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob_Wallace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jun 2012 16:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=39124#comment-124387</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What Anne says is correct.  I&#039;m off the grid, have been for over 20 years.  Being attached to a large grid has significant advantages.

I&#039;ve got far more solar panels than I need for sunny days like today.  My batteries were full before 10am.  That means hours of wasted energy that could be flowing somewhere else and reducing fossil fuel useage.

I&#039;ve got far too few solar panels than I need for cloudy days.  I can&#039;t get close to producing all my electricity needs during a string of overcast days.  I have to crank up the generator and burn fossil fuel. I wish I could grab some of the excess wind or hydro that my neighbors are producing.

--

Seasonal storage using hydrogen. We don&#039;t have numbers to let us start understanding the cost of our options.  One thing about hydrogen, we could build up the supply over time, meaning that we could build less generation.  

But we&#039;d have to be able to turn that hydrogen into electricity in large volumes which would mean a lot of fuel cells/whatever.  A big investment.

If we just over-sized all the distributed battery installations that we&#039;re likely to end up with we would only have to add extra batteries.  We could charge them with the same AC -&gt; DC equipment we would use for grid smoothing and short term storage.  Then we could use the same inverters we use for short term storage, just run them all at full output, all at the same time.

]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What Anne says is correct.  I&#8217;m off the grid, have been for over 20 years.  Being attached to a large grid has significant advantages.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve got far more solar panels than I need for sunny days like today.  My batteries were full before 10am.  That means hours of wasted energy that could be flowing somewhere else and reducing fossil fuel useage.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve got far too few solar panels than I need for cloudy days.  I can&#8217;t get close to producing all my electricity needs during a string of overcast days.  I have to crank up the generator and burn fossil fuel. I wish I could grab some of the excess wind or hydro that my neighbors are producing.</p>
<p>&#8212;</p>
<p>Seasonal storage using hydrogen. We don&#8217;t have numbers to let us start understanding the cost of our options.  One thing about hydrogen, we could build up the supply over time, meaning that we could build less generation.  </p>
<p>But we&#8217;d have to be able to turn that hydrogen into electricity in large volumes which would mean a lot of fuel cells/whatever.  A big investment.</p>
<p>If we just over-sized all the distributed battery installations that we&#8217;re likely to end up with we would only have to add extra batteries.  We could charge them with the same AC -&gt; DC equipment we would use for grid smoothing and short term storage.  Then we could use the same inverters we use for short term storage, just run them all at full output, all at the same time.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anne</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/06/16/pnnl-team-uses-biomimicry-faster-cheaper-hydrogen-catalyst/#comment-124355</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anne]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jun 2012 11:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=39124#comment-124355</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[No, this technology hasn&#039;t been held back. It is freely available. Why the conspiracy theory? 

Many remote vacation houses or boats have an off-grid installation with batteries. But it is very expensive and can not guarantee 100% availability. On a specific site, the sun can hide behind the clouds for many days or even weeks. The batteries would be way more expensive than the monthly fee for a grid connection.

It is not efficient to turn each house into an energy island. Eliminating over/underproduction on site will require vast amounts of storage, much larger than when you first combine all generators (different technologies) over a large area and then deal with the remaining variability.

Also, many houses (eg apartments)  do not have enough roof available to generate all their energy on site and go off-grid.

To flatten the day/night curve, batteries are much cheaper than hydrogen
 and will be for the forseeable future. Seasonal storage is another 
question, there might be a role for hydrogen there.

]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, this technology hasn&#8217;t been held back. It is freely available. Why the conspiracy theory? </p>
<p>Many remote vacation houses or boats have an off-grid installation with batteries. But it is very expensive and can not guarantee 100% availability. On a specific site, the sun can hide behind the clouds for many days or even weeks. The batteries would be way more expensive than the monthly fee for a grid connection.</p>
<p>It is not efficient to turn each house into an energy island. Eliminating over/underproduction on site will require vast amounts of storage, much larger than when you first combine all generators (different technologies) over a large area and then deal with the remaining variability.</p>
<p>Also, many houses (eg apartments)  do not have enough roof available to generate all their energy on site and go off-grid.</p>
<p>To flatten the day/night curve, batteries are much cheaper than hydrogen<br />
 and will be for the forseeable future. Seasonal storage is another<br />
question, there might be a role for hydrogen there.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bob_Wallace</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/06/16/pnnl-team-uses-biomimicry-faster-cheaper-hydrogen-catalyst/#comment-124294</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob_Wallace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jun 2012 17:03:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=39124#comment-124294</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sorry, I do not see that happening.

You&#039;d have to purchase a &#039;water cracker&#039;. 

You&#039;d have to purchase hydrogen storage including equipment to pressurize the hydrogen (or get a really big tank).

And you&#039;d have to purchase equipment to convert hydrogen back into electricity.

Along with that you&#039;d lose a lot of the energy you put in the front end.

My money is on batteries.

--

And, no, I don&#039;t see the end of power/utility companies.  A lessor role, yes, but many people are not either able or willing to set up their own power companies.  

And stand-alone systems are very much less efficient than large grid systems that can bring power from a variety of sources and locations.


]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, I do not see that happening.</p>
<p>You&#8217;d have to purchase a &#8216;water cracker&#8217;. </p>
<p>You&#8217;d have to purchase hydrogen storage including equipment to pressurize the hydrogen (or get a really big tank).</p>
<p>And you&#8217;d have to purchase equipment to convert hydrogen back into electricity.</p>
<p>Along with that you&#8217;d lose a lot of the energy you put in the front end.</p>
<p>My money is on batteries.</p>
<p>&#8212;</p>
<p>And, no, I don&#8217;t see the end of power/utility companies.  A lessor role, yes, but many people are not either able or willing to set up their own power companies.  </p>
<p>And stand-alone systems are very much less efficient than large grid systems that can bring power from a variety of sources and locations.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sunnykairos</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/06/16/pnnl-team-uses-biomimicry-faster-cheaper-hydrogen-catalyst/#comment-124293</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sunnykairos]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jun 2012 16:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=39124#comment-124293</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes the solution is in a home hydrogen power box powered by a third generation solar panel that will allow it ,with this technology, to power the home through the day and night. Big power plants will be obsolete. Most power will be generated on site for everything. It is a disruptive technology that has been held back because of what it can achieve for individuals, not power companies.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes the solution is in a home hydrogen power box powered by a third generation solar panel that will allow it ,with this technology, to power the home through the day and night. Big power plants will be obsolete. Most power will be generated on site for everything. It is a disruptive technology that has been held back because of what it can achieve for individuals, not power companies.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bob_Wallace</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/06/16/pnnl-team-uses-biomimicry-faster-cheaper-hydrogen-catalyst/#comment-124287</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob_Wallace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jun 2012 14:48:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=39124#comment-124287</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hydrogen might be a storage option.  It&#039;s going to depend on how cheap grid storage batteries get.  We&#039;ve got one company stating 6 cents per kWh with the prospect of getting down to 1.5 cents.  And liquid metal batteries should be very cheap.  If those products pan out then hydrogen will face stiff competition.  Batteries are about 85% efficient.

I don&#039;t see hydrogen powered vehicles as likely.  If EV batteries increase about 50% in capacity and fall to an affordable price point then EVs will likely lock in the market.

For hydrogen FECVs to take the market away from EVs they would have to be significantly cheaper to own and operate.  You&#039;d have to get fuel cells well below the price of batteries and distribute hydrogen for well under &quot;$1/gallon&quot;.

Unless there is a major economic advantage for hydrogen fueled driving it would make no sense to invest the many billions of dollars to install a hydrogen generation/distribution system.

]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hydrogen might be a storage option.  It&#8217;s going to depend on how cheap grid storage batteries get.  We&#8217;ve got one company stating 6 cents per kWh with the prospect of getting down to 1.5 cents.  And liquid metal batteries should be very cheap.  If those products pan out then hydrogen will face stiff competition.  Batteries are about 85% efficient.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t see hydrogen powered vehicles as likely.  If EV batteries increase about 50% in capacity and fall to an affordable price point then EVs will likely lock in the market.</p>
<p>For hydrogen FECVs to take the market away from EVs they would have to be significantly cheaper to own and operate.  You&#8217;d have to get fuel cells well below the price of batteries and distribute hydrogen for well under &#8220;$1/gallon&#8221;.</p>
<p>Unless there is a major economic advantage for hydrogen fueled driving it would make no sense to invest the many billions of dollars to install a hydrogen generation/distribution system.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ronald Brak</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/06/16/pnnl-team-uses-biomimicry-faster-cheaper-hydrogen-catalyst/#comment-124273</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ronald Brak]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jun 2012 13:04:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=39124#comment-124273</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yep, not likely to be competitive.  Although the lower the efficiency one is willing to put up with, the lower the capital costs to produce hydrogen.  Despite this, I doubt it will be done on a large scale if at all.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yep, not likely to be competitive.  Although the lower the efficiency one is willing to put up with, the lower the capital costs to produce hydrogen.  Despite this, I doubt it will be done on a large scale if at all.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anne</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/06/16/pnnl-team-uses-biomimicry-faster-cheaper-hydrogen-catalyst/#comment-124269</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anne]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jun 2012 11:52:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=39124#comment-124269</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have thought about that too, but the problem with that is that you must have a giant hydrogen factory on standby waiting for the electricity price to get to zero, and then fire up. Usually the capital expenditures on such plants is too high to let it sit still doing nothing for most of the time. Refineries run 24/7 for a good reason.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have thought about that too, but the problem with that is that you must have a giant hydrogen factory on standby waiting for the electricity price to get to zero, and then fire up. Usually the capital expenditures on such plants is too high to let it sit still doing nothing for most of the time. Refineries run 24/7 for a good reason.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ronald Brak</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/06/16/pnnl-team-uses-biomimicry-faster-cheaper-hydrogen-catalyst/#comment-124262</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ronald Brak]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jun 2012 10:03:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=39124#comment-124262</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hydrogen will need to be able to compete with burning natural gas and then removing the CO2 released from the atmosphere (plus whatever extra amount is required to account for methane leaks).  Currently I would not bet on that happening.  On the other hand, if wind and solar pushes the price of electricity down to zero at times, the loss of energy from extracting hydrogen from water at those times doesn&#039;t seem so bad.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hydrogen will need to be able to compete with burning natural gas and then removing the CO2 released from the atmosphere (plus whatever extra amount is required to account for methane leaks).  Currently I would not bet on that happening.  On the other hand, if wind and solar pushes the price of electricity down to zero at times, the loss of energy from extracting hydrogen from water at those times doesn&#8217;t seem so bad.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anne</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/06/16/pnnl-team-uses-biomimicry-faster-cheaper-hydrogen-catalyst/#comment-124255</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anne]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jun 2012 06:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=39124#comment-124255</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is good news, but a few hurdles remain for the hydrogen economy. Since hydrogen is only an energy carrier. the question is: what is the wind-to-wheel efficiency?

Producing hydrogen from methane doesn&#039;t solve the problem of CO2 emission, or could even worsen climate change, depending on how much of the methane leaks during the extraction of natural gas.

So, the other route is producing hydrogen by electrolysis with renewable electricity. This is less than 50% efficient. We can not afford to waste that much energy. 

For example. The Honda FCX Clarity can run 60 miles per kg of hydrogen. Producing 1 kg of compressed hydrogen by electrolysis costs ~60 kWh/kg. So the wind-to-wheel efficiency of the Clarity is 1 mile per kWh. The Nissan LEAF travels 3 miles per kWh by using the electricity directly. Some good progress is needed in this area before the hydrogen car becomes an attractive option.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is good news, but a few hurdles remain for the hydrogen economy. Since hydrogen is only an energy carrier. the question is: what is the wind-to-wheel efficiency?</p>
<p>Producing hydrogen from methane doesn&#8217;t solve the problem of CO2 emission, or could even worsen climate change, depending on how much of the methane leaks during the extraction of natural gas.</p>
<p>So, the other route is producing hydrogen by electrolysis with renewable electricity. This is less than 50% efficient. We can not afford to waste that much energy. </p>
<p>For example. The Honda FCX Clarity can run 60 miles per kg of hydrogen. Producing 1 kg of compressed hydrogen by electrolysis costs ~60 kWh/kg. So the wind-to-wheel efficiency of the Clarity is 1 mile per kWh. The Nissan LEAF travels 3 miles per kWh by using the electricity directly. Some good progress is needed in this area before the hydrogen car becomes an attractive option.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Balaji</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/06/16/pnnl-team-uses-biomimicry-faster-cheaper-hydrogen-catalyst/#comment-124134</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Balaji]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jun 2012 15:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=39124#comment-124134</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[how sooner can we expect in real world]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>how sooner can we expect in real world</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
