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	<title>Comments on: New Battery System Could Reduce Buildings&#8217; Electric Bills</title>
	<atom:link href="http://cleantechnica.com/2012/05/09/new-battery-system-could-reduce-buildings-electric-bills/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/05/09/new-battery-system-could-reduce-buildings-electric-bills/</link>
	<description>Clean Tech News &#38; Views: Solar Energy News. Wind Energy News. EV News. &#38; More.</description>
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		<title>By: Zachary Shahan</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/05/09/new-battery-system-could-reduce-buildings-electric-bills/#comment-121580</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Zachary Shahan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 May 2012 16:03:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=37781#comment-121580</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[naturally :D]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>naturally <img src="http://cleantechnica.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" class="wp-smiley" /></p>
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		<title>By: Zachary Shahan</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/05/09/new-battery-system-could-reduce-buildings-electric-bills/#comment-121579</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Zachary Shahan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 May 2012 16:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=37781#comment-121579</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[it&#039;s going to be very interesting to see how it morphs as storage grows, TOU pricing becomes more common, and peak pricing gets cut from solar power. some of these trends pull developers and utilities in diff directions.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>it&#8217;s going to be very interesting to see how it morphs as storage grows, TOU pricing becomes more common, and peak pricing gets cut from solar power. some of these trends pull developers and utilities in diff directions.</p>
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		<title>By: Zachary Shahan</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/05/09/new-battery-system-could-reduce-buildings-electric-bills/#comment-121578</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Zachary Shahan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 May 2012 15:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=37781#comment-121578</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Don&#039;t know... needs more development before we will it seems]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t know&#8230; needs more development before we will it seems</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Bob_Wallace</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/05/09/new-battery-system-could-reduce-buildings-electric-bills/#comment-120733</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob_Wallace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 May 2012 02:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=37781#comment-120733</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[TOU (time of use) billing happens in some markets.  With smart meters we&#039;re likely to see a lot more of it.

My guess is that we&#039;ll see a lot of TOU billing.  Overall TOU billing should save us a lot on our power bills.  By pushing some demand off peak hours we won&#039;t have to purchase as much very expensive peaking power.

Just getting a lot more demand to late night wind would be a great benefit. It would make wind more profitable for wind farms and cause more to be built.  That would mean additional cheap wind during peak hours.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TOU (time of use) billing happens in some markets.  With smart meters we&#8217;re likely to see a lot more of it.</p>
<p>My guess is that we&#8217;ll see a lot of TOU billing.  Overall TOU billing should save us a lot on our power bills.  By pushing some demand off peak hours we won&#8217;t have to purchase as much very expensive peaking power.</p>
<p>Just getting a lot more demand to late night wind would be a great benefit. It would make wind more profitable for wind farms and cause more to be built.  That would mean additional cheap wind during peak hours.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve K</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/05/09/new-battery-system-could-reduce-buildings-electric-bills/#comment-120714</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve K]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 May 2012 18:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=37781#comment-120714</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[not necessarily.  The electric providers are PAYING more for the electricity during peak, not necessarily selling it for more.  Their average rates have to reflect that, though, to avoid going bankrupt.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>not necessarily.  The electric providers are PAYING more for the electricity during peak, not necessarily selling it for more.  Their average rates have to reflect that, though, to avoid going bankrupt.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob_Wallace</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/05/09/new-battery-system-could-reduce-buildings-electric-bills/#comment-120705</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob_Wallace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 May 2012 14:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=37781#comment-120705</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That claim rings very false to me.

Can you back up  your statement?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That claim rings very false to me.</p>
<p>Can you back up  your statement?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Rufus Cole</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/05/09/new-battery-system-could-reduce-buildings-electric-bills/#comment-120682</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rufus Cole]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 May 2012 09:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=37781#comment-120682</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The problem with innovations like this that promote independent energy responsibility is that they are stopped at every point by the energy provider giants. With the latest innovations in renewable energy for the home, and the goal of massive worldwide solar penetration, they are seeing the death of their business and will make it harder for us to obtain independence from their services.



&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.wdsgreenenergy.co.uk/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;solar panels bristol&lt;/a&gt;
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem with innovations like this that promote independent energy responsibility is that they are stopped at every point by the energy provider giants. With the latest innovations in renewable energy for the home, and the goal of massive worldwide solar penetration, they are seeing the death of their business and will make it harder for us to obtain independence from their services.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.wdsgreenenergy.co.uk/" rel="nofollow">solar panels bristol</a></p>
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		<title>By: Ross</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/05/09/new-battery-system-could-reduce-buildings-electric-bills/#comment-120639</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ross]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 May 2012 19:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=37781#comment-120639</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Went looking and found this.

Jay Whitacre from CMU/Aquion has his own TED talk about the development of their battery. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaMuxB4s5qI]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Went looking and found this.</p>
<p>Jay Whitacre from CMU/Aquion has his own TED talk about the development of their battery. </p>
<p><span class='embed-youtube' style='text-align:center; display: block;'><iframe class='youtube-player' type='text/html' width='600' height='368' src='http://www.youtube.com/embed/vaMuxB4s5qI?version=3&#038;rel=1&#038;fs=1&#038;showsearch=0&#038;showinfo=1&#038;iv_load_policy=1&#038;wmode=transparent' frameborder='0'></iframe></span></p>
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		<title>By: Bob_Wallace</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/05/09/new-battery-system-could-reduce-buildings-electric-bills/#comment-120565</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob_Wallace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 May 2012 03:02:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=37781#comment-120565</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Another grid battery to watch is Aquion.  They&#039;ve got a sodium-ion battery that&#039;s been tested by an independent lab for 5,000 100% DoD cycles and expect to be able to hit 20,000 cycles.

Their battery is 100% recyclable, can be 100% discharged with no damage, operates at room temperature and does not suffer form high heat conditions.

Aquion is currently setting up a factory in Pennsylvania and expects to be shipping in 2013.  They are projecting a $300/kW price.

If they can hit $300/kW and 20k cycles then the cost of storing electricity drops to about $0.015/kWh - an extremely affordable price.  

Stuff is happening....]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another grid battery to watch is Aquion.  They&#8217;ve got a sodium-ion battery that&#8217;s been tested by an independent lab for 5,000 100% DoD cycles and expect to be able to hit 20,000 cycles.</p>
<p>Their battery is 100% recyclable, can be 100% discharged with no damage, operates at room temperature and does not suffer form high heat conditions.</p>
<p>Aquion is currently setting up a factory in Pennsylvania and expects to be shipping in 2013.  They are projecting a $300/kW price.</p>
<p>If they can hit $300/kW and 20k cycles then the cost of storing electricity drops to about $0.015/kWh &#8211; an extremely affordable price.  </p>
<p>Stuff is happening&#8230;.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Bob_Wallace</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/05/09/new-battery-system-could-reduce-buildings-electric-bills/#comment-120562</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob_Wallace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 May 2012 01:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=37781#comment-120562</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It is going to be very interesting to watch the electricity industry morph over time.  The old model won&#039;t hold, it&#039;s already crumbling.

If you check the most recent ERCOT wholesale prices you&#039;ll see that the cost of electricity sometimes drops below zero and sometimes soars to far more than $0.40/kWh.  This afternoon at 4pm the price rose to around $1.50/kWh for one 15 minute block.

Create an well priced, long lasting battery and the old pricing systems will go away.

*If prices hit $300/kW, then 5,000 100% DoD cycles means electricity can be stored for $0.06/kWh. 10,000 cycles lets electricity be stored for $0.03/kWh.*

If wind can profitably produce for $0.06/kWh and if solar drops that low then we can have clean 24/365 power for a dime or less. Prices might drop a bit lower for power used when supply is higher and rise a bit when it&#039;s coming from storage, but it should be nothing like the huge price difference of today.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is going to be very interesting to watch the electricity industry morph over time.  The old model won&#8217;t hold, it&#8217;s already crumbling.</p>
<p>If you check the most recent ERCOT wholesale prices you&#8217;ll see that the cost of electricity sometimes drops below zero and sometimes soars to far more than $0.40/kWh.  This afternoon at 4pm the price rose to around $1.50/kWh for one 15 minute block.</p>
<p>Create an well priced, long lasting battery and the old pricing systems will go away.</p>
<p>*If prices hit $300/kW, then 5,000 100% DoD cycles means electricity can be stored for $0.06/kWh. 10,000 cycles lets electricity be stored for $0.03/kWh.*</p>
<p>If wind can profitably produce for $0.06/kWh and if solar drops that low then we can have clean 24/365 power for a dime or less. Prices might drop a bit lower for power used when supply is higher and rise a bit when it&#8217;s coming from storage, but it should be nothing like the huge price difference of today.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/05/09/new-battery-system-could-reduce-buildings-electric-bills/#comment-120549</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Matt]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2012 21:21:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=37781#comment-120549</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Looking at the Texas spot market charts from last month post. At night the wholesale cost sometimes hit zero, but more mormally were around $0.10 per kWh. The peak was in the $0.40-0.65 range.

So a wind farm owner looks and says well I&#039;ll make 30 to 40 cent more a kWh by selling during peak instead of at night. Lets say $0.33, so in one year that is about $120 per kWh &quot;moved&quot;.

So the market for fix location batteries (this, flow batteries, etc) is both producers and users. The cost estimate above is $300-500 per kWh, and as storage moves into mass production those will drop.

I guess the long term draw back is that the peak/non-peak spread will drop. So will be harder to make money on the spread. And all that night time wind power will be useable during the day, so &quot;base line&quot; coal becomes much less useful. Oh well I&#039;ll get over the not having coal to kick around.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Looking at the Texas spot market charts from last month post. At night the wholesale cost sometimes hit zero, but more mormally were around $0.10 per kWh. The peak was in the $0.40-0.65 range.</p>
<p>So a wind farm owner looks and says well I&#8217;ll make 30 to 40 cent more a kWh by selling during peak instead of at night. Lets say $0.33, so in one year that is about $120 per kWh &#8220;moved&#8221;.</p>
<p>So the market for fix location batteries (this, flow batteries, etc) is both producers and users. The cost estimate above is $300-500 per kWh, and as storage moves into mass production those will drop.</p>
<p>I guess the long term draw back is that the peak/non-peak spread will drop. So will be harder to make money on the spread. And all that night time wind power will be useable during the day, so &#8220;base line&#8221; coal becomes much less useful. Oh well I&#8217;ll get over the not having coal to kick around.</p>
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		<title>By: Ross</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/05/09/new-battery-system-could-reduce-buildings-electric-bills/#comment-120538</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ross]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2012 17:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=37781#comment-120538</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[How does the cost of this compare with MIT Prof. Donald Sadoway&#039;s high temperature magnesium-antinomy flow battery whose TED talk was linked to here last month. I didn&#039;t notice a cost per kWh figure being claimed for that one. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How does the cost of this compare with MIT Prof. Donald Sadoway&#8217;s high temperature magnesium-antinomy flow battery whose TED talk was linked to here last month. I didn&#8217;t notice a cost per kWh figure being claimed for that one. </p>
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		<title>By: anderlan</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/05/09/new-battery-system-could-reduce-buildings-electric-bills/#comment-120530</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[anderlan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2012 14:25:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=37781#comment-120530</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m guessing they have time-of-day power billing so they charge up the bank when the price is low?  I love the augmentation of school infrastructure with student talent.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m guessing they have time-of-day power billing so they charge up the bank when the price is low?  I love the augmentation of school infrastructure with student talent.</p>
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