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	<title>Comments on: The State of Commercial Solar Power in Australia</title>
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	<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/05/03/the-state-of-commercial-solar-power-in-australia/</link>
	<description>Clean Tech News &#38; Views: Solar Energy News. Wind Energy News. EV News. &#38; More.</description>
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		<title>By: Ten Facts About Solar Panels</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/05/03/the-state-of-commercial-solar-power-in-australia/#comment-131435</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ten Facts About Solar Panels]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Sep 2012 15:10:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=37626#comment-131435</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] is an increasing awareness in Australia about the obvious advantages and benefits of switching to solar power. Not only does it contribute [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] is an increasing awareness in Australia about the obvious advantages and benefits of switching to solar power. Not only does it contribute [&#8230;]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Zachary Shahan</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/05/03/the-state-of-commercial-solar-power-in-australia/#comment-121616</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Zachary Shahan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 May 2012 18:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=37626#comment-121616</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[yeah, we&#039;ve covered this general point a couple times. this is the piece i have cite, which is actually based on the situation in Australia: http://cleantechnica.com/2012/01/03/baseload-power-gets-in-the-way/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yeah, we&#8217;ve covered this general point a couple times. this is the piece i have cite, which is actually based on the situation in Australia: <a href="http://cleantechnica.com/2012/01/03/baseload-power-gets-in-the-way/" rel="nofollow">http://cleantechnica.com/2012/01/03/baseload-power-gets-in-the-way/</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Ronald Brak</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/05/03/the-state-of-commercial-solar-power-in-australia/#comment-120286</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ronald Brak]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 May 2012 23:47:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=37626#comment-120286</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for the link.  That page gave me a result similar to my rough estimate.   which I got by using a simple rule of thumb that allows 10% for capital costs and depreciation:  Cost per watt divided by average kilowatt-hours produced per year multiplied by 0.1.

In US dollars this gives a cost of under 18 cents a kilowatt-hour for most of Australia&#039;s population, about 20 cents for Melbourne, and about 14 cents in desert sunny Cloncurry.  

]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the link.  That page gave me a result similar to my rough estimate.   which I got by using a simple rule of thumb that allows 10% for capital costs and depreciation:  Cost per watt divided by average kilowatt-hours produced per year multiplied by 0.1.</p>
<p>In US dollars this gives a cost of under 18 cents a kilowatt-hour for most of Australia&#8217;s population, about 20 cents for Melbourne, and about 14 cents in desert sunny Cloncurry.  </p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Bob_Wallace</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/05/03/the-state-of-commercial-solar-power-in-australia/#comment-120273</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob_Wallace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 May 2012 16:06:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=37626#comment-120273</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Read of him?

You&#039;re posting from his address.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Read of him?</p>
<p>You&#8217;re posting from his address.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Bob_Wallace</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/05/03/the-state-of-commercial-solar-power-in-australia/#comment-120272</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob_Wallace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 May 2012 16:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=37626#comment-120272</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Here&#039;s what I used to gen the numbers.

http://www.nrel.gov/analysis/tech_lcoe.html

I left in the 4% discount rate.  If financing is higher where you are then that would drive the price per kWh higher.

When using the LCOE page remember to take heat rate and fuel cost to zero. 
I do find this way of estimating the cost of electricity a bit incorrect because it does not allow for the years/decades of no-cost electricity which follow the pay off.  It&#039;s true that fossil fuel plants are also paid off at some point, but their fuel and maintenance costs continue.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s what I used to gen the numbers.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.nrel.gov/analysis/tech_lcoe.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.nrel.gov/analysis/tech_lcoe.html</a></p>
<p>I left in the 4% discount rate.  If financing is higher where you are then that would drive the price per kWh higher.</p>
<p>When using the LCOE page remember to take heat rate and fuel cost to zero.<br />
I do find this way of estimating the cost of electricity a bit incorrect because it does not allow for the years/decades of no-cost electricity which follow the pay off.  It&#8217;s true that fossil fuel plants are also paid off at some point, but their fuel and maintenance costs continue.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Ronald Brak</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/05/03/the-state-of-commercial-solar-power-in-australia/#comment-120269</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ronald Brak]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 May 2012 15:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=37626#comment-120269</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks Bob.  That&#039;s about the same as my crude, back of the envelope estimate.  My figure is a little higher, but that might just be because the cost of capital tends to be higher in Australia than the rest of the developed world.  ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Bob.  That&#8217;s about the same as my crude, back of the envelope estimate.  My figure is a little higher, but that might just be because the cost of capital tends to be higher in Australia than the rest of the developed world.  </p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Bob_Wallace</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/05/03/the-state-of-commercial-solar-power-in-australia/#comment-120259</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob_Wallace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 May 2012 14:09:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=37626#comment-120259</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Based on the $3.10/watt and a average 5 hour solar day the power produced would cost about $0.13/kWh.

For the first 20 years.  After that the electricity is free.

And during the 20 year payback period the price of electricity would not rise.  If grid prices rise 3% per year the retail price of electricity from the grid will increase to over $0.33/kWh.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Based on the $3.10/watt and a average 5 hour solar day the power produced would cost about $0.13/kWh.</p>
<p>For the first 20 years.  After that the electricity is free.</p>
<p>And during the 20 year payback period the price of electricity would not rise.  If grid prices rise 3% per year the retail price of electricity from the grid will increase to over $0.33/kWh.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
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		<title>By: Ronald Brak</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/05/03/the-state-of-commercial-solar-power-in-australia/#comment-120245</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ronald Brak]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 May 2012 07:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=37626#comment-120245</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I just found out how much it cost to install point of use solar in Australia last month.  Apparently the average cost was around $3.10 US per installed watt.  This was before any subsidy and before our 10% Goods and Services Tax.  Given sunshine levels in Australia and high retail prices for electricity that are often over 25 US cents per kilowatt-hour, this makes point of use solar the cheapest source of electricity for most Australians. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just found out how much it cost to install point of use solar in Australia last month.  Apparently the average cost was around $3.10 US per installed watt.  This was before any subsidy and before our 10% Goods and Services Tax.  Given sunshine levels in Australia and high retail prices for electricity that are often over 25 US cents per kilowatt-hour, this makes point of use solar the cheapest source of electricity for most Australians. </p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Angela Warra</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/05/03/the-state-of-commercial-solar-power-in-australia/#comment-120175</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Angela Warra]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2012 07:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=37626#comment-120175</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hello guys.
 I have requested from Origin Energy legal department a copy of section of liability clauses Solar Generator. Took 5 weeks before a copy was posted out.
 Under Origin heading indemnity &amp; liability of a solar system.  
 “All indemnity &amp; liability passed from Origin  to owner of solar generator system upon signing”. Even the Federal Government has the same clause word for word under REC.  
Did you not read clause section under ownership and risk, read the fine print.  
You guys must had poor education in law given you didn’t read  indemnity &amp; liability
before signing the contract. 
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello guys.<br />
 I have requested from Origin Energy legal department a copy of section of liability clauses Solar Generator. Took 5 weeks before a copy was posted out.<br />
 Under Origin heading indemnity &amp; liability of a solar system.<br />
 “All indemnity &amp; liability passed from Origin  to owner of solar generator system upon signing”. Even the Federal Government has the same clause word for word under REC.<br />
Did you not read clause section under ownership and risk, read the fine print.<br />
You guys must had poor education in law given you didn’t read  indemnity &amp; liability<br />
before signing the contract. </p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Luke</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/05/03/the-state-of-commercial-solar-power-in-australia/#comment-120172</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Luke]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2012 06:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=37626#comment-120172</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This demonstrates it isn&#039;t a problem with rooftop solar, but rather with the way the power system is run. It&#039;s gotta&#039; keep up with the times. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This demonstrates it isn&#8217;t a problem with rooftop solar, but rather with the way the power system is run. It&#8217;s gotta&#8217; keep up with the times. </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Luke</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/05/03/the-state-of-commercial-solar-power-in-australia/#comment-120171</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Luke]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2012 06:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=37626#comment-120171</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Shit, I guess Germany&#039;s going to have to reverse everything they&#039;ve done then. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shit, I guess Germany&#8217;s going to have to reverse everything they&#8217;ve done then. </p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Zer0Sum</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/05/03/the-state-of-commercial-solar-power-in-australia/#comment-120167</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Zer0Sum]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2012 05:55:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=37626#comment-120167</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Relying on wind power to solve Australias energy supply issue is ridiculous. It has so many drawbacks when compared with truly low cost and highly efficient CSP. 

The only reason Australia hasn&#039;t embraced CSP already is the threat it represents to the coal industries grip on political power. 

Geothermal can work in a few specific areas but not across the whole country. There are very few places in Australia that couldn&#039;t host a local CSP plant. That means distributed localised energy production, energy security and jobs. 

Wave energy is also possible but it requires massive investments in new technological advancements so unlikely to kick in before the oil runs out.

Ghawar is now producing 80:20 water:oil output so there isn&#039;t much time left. Probably by the end of this decade.

Unfortunately the fascists in control are only interested in their own personal bottom line which is firmly propped up by the Elites. there is little chance they will be convinced to make the changes required for the future of all Australians. It looks like it will take a severe disruption to global energy supply to force anything substantial to actually happen over here.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Relying on wind power to solve Australias energy supply issue is ridiculous. It has so many drawbacks when compared with truly low cost and highly efficient CSP. </p>
<p>The only reason Australia hasn&#8217;t embraced CSP already is the threat it represents to the coal industries grip on political power. </p>
<p>Geothermal can work in a few specific areas but not across the whole country. There are very few places in Australia that couldn&#8217;t host a local CSP plant. That means distributed localised energy production, energy security and jobs. </p>
<p>Wave energy is also possible but it requires massive investments in new technological advancements so unlikely to kick in before the oil runs out.</p>
<p>Ghawar is now producing 80:20 water:oil output so there isn&#8217;t much time left. Probably by the end of this decade.</p>
<p>Unfortunately the fascists in control are only interested in their own personal bottom line which is firmly propped up by the Elites. there is little chance they will be convinced to make the changes required for the future of all Australians. It looks like it will take a severe disruption to global energy supply to force anything substantial to actually happen over here.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Ronald Brak</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/05/03/the-state-of-commercial-solar-power-in-australia/#comment-120166</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ronald Brak]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2012 05:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=37626#comment-120166</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[ Yes, Australia can only build about 1 gig of wind power because Australia is only about one third the size of Denmark.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> Yes, Australia can only build about 1 gig of wind power because Australia is only about one third the size of Denmark.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Zer0Sum</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/05/03/the-state-of-commercial-solar-power-in-australia/#comment-120165</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Zer0Sum]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2012 05:28:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=37626#comment-120165</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[And almost zero political will... 

The coal industry is firmly entrenched and Murdoch controls 90% of mainstream media.

The Laboural parties are beholden to elite interests and they manipulate the political process with corrupt polling results which continues to block the greens who should actually be in control by now.

Australia could be the world leader in renewables but has chosen to lag behind, go to war in the Middle East and continue to exploit it&#039;s vast mineral resources instead. Hence we are the per capita largest consumers of fossil fuels in the world by a very large margin.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And almost zero political will&#8230; </p>
<p>The coal industry is firmly entrenched and Murdoch controls 90% of mainstream media.</p>
<p>The Laboural parties are beholden to elite interests and they manipulate the political process with corrupt polling results which continues to block the greens who should actually be in control by now.</p>
<p>Australia could be the world leader in renewables but has chosen to lag behind, go to war in the Middle East and continue to exploit it&#8217;s vast mineral resources instead. Hence we are the per capita largest consumers of fossil fuels in the world by a very large margin.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Bob_Wallace</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/05/03/the-state-of-commercial-solar-power-in-australia/#comment-120163</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob_Wallace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2012 05:20:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=37626#comment-120163</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Looking at an Australia wind map it seems to me that you&#039;ve got tremendous wind potential.

http://www.dpi.vic.gov.au/__data/assets/image/0004/34582/SKM-DPI-Renewable-Energy-Part2-v5_img_11.gif

Furthermore, new turbine design allows for efficient energy harvesting in &#039;less than optimal&#039; wind sites.  It&#039;s a matter of fitting the tool to the job.

Australia has enormous renewable potential.  Lots of wind, lots of solar, lots of geothermal, lots of wave....]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Looking at an Australia wind map it seems to me that you&#8217;ve got tremendous wind potential.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.dpi.vic.gov.au/__data/assets/image/0004/34582/SKM-DPI-Renewable-Energy-Part2-v5_img_11.gif" rel="nofollow">http://www.dpi.vic.gov.au/__data/assets/image/0004/34582/SKM-DPI-Renewable-Energy-Part2-v5_img_11.gif</a></p>
<p>Furthermore, new turbine design allows for efficient energy harvesting in &#8216;less than optimal&#8217; wind sites.  It&#8217;s a matter of fitting the tool to the job.</p>
<p>Australia has enormous renewable potential.  Lots of wind, lots of solar, lots of geothermal, lots of wave&#8230;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Zer0Sum</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/05/03/the-state-of-commercial-solar-power-in-australia/#comment-120162</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Zer0Sum]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2012 05:06:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=37626#comment-120162</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The problem is that we only produce 300 MW of wind power. Less than 1% of total electricity consumption... And the wind farms that we have are all placed in the best locations already. Doesn&#039;t look good for the future of wind power in Oz. CSP and distributed PV will have to be embraced as China and fertiliser is a much more lucrative market for coal than burning it up for electricity supply. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem is that we only produce 300 MW of wind power. Less than 1% of total electricity consumption&#8230; And the wind farms that we have are all placed in the best locations already. Doesn&#8217;t look good for the future of wind power in Oz. CSP and distributed PV will have to be embraced as China and fertiliser is a much more lucrative market for coal than burning it up for electricity supply. </p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Ronald Brak</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/05/03/the-state-of-commercial-solar-power-in-australia/#comment-120160</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ronald Brak]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2012 04:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=37626#comment-120160</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[No, I&#039;m sure people actually living in Australia have already noticed that the wind doesn&#039;t blow at a constant rate all the time. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, I&#8217;m sure people actually living in Australia have already noticed that the wind doesn&#8217;t blow at a constant rate all the time. </p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Bob_Wallace</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/05/03/the-state-of-commercial-solar-power-in-australia/#comment-120159</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob_Wallace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2012 04:52:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=37626#comment-120159</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That&#039;s pretty typical of most wind farms.  Newer technology, best sites is getting closer to 50% of nameplate.

No power generation technology gives 100% of nameplate.  ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s pretty typical of most wind farms.  Newer technology, best sites is getting closer to 50% of nameplate.</p>
<p>No power generation technology gives 100% of nameplate.  </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bob_Wallace</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/05/03/the-state-of-commercial-solar-power-in-australia/#comment-120158</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob_Wallace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2012 04:50:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=37626#comment-120158</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for that ZerO...

From Origin&#039;s web site in which they help people purchase solar systems -

&quot;Take advantage of our 24 month interest free payment plan, just 5% up front and the rest over 24 months on your credit card^.


Origin is Australia&#039;s largest solar retailer with over 60,000 installations!

Our 24 month interest free payment plan^ makes it easy.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for that ZerO&#8230;</p>
<p>From Origin&#8217;s web site in which they help people purchase solar systems &#8211;</p>
<p>&#8220;Take advantage of our 24 month interest free payment plan, just 5% up front and the rest over 24 months on your credit card^.</p>
<p>Origin is Australia&#8217;s largest solar retailer with over 60,000 installations!</p>
<p>Our 24 month interest free payment plan^ makes it easy.&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Zer0Sum</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/05/03/the-state-of-commercial-solar-power-in-australia/#comment-120157</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Zer0Sum]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2012 04:48:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=37626#comment-120157</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Am I the only one who has noticed that wind power in Australia only produces an average of 30-40% of it&#039;s peak capacity? ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Am I the only one who has noticed that wind power in Australia only produces an average of 30-40% of it&#8217;s peak capacity? </p>
]]></content:encoded>
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