Comments on: The Gasoline-Free Future and How to Get There, If Ever http://cleantechnica.com/2012/04/24/the-gasoline-free-future-and-how-to-get-there-if-ever/ Clean Tech News & Views: Solar Energy News. Wind Energy News. EV News. & More. Tue, 30 Dec 2014 04:39:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.0.1 By: Say No to Gasoline: Fuel Freedom’s Methanol Cars to Run in Rescheduled Pike’s Peak International Hill Climb - CleanTechnica http://cleantechnica.com/2012/04/24/the-gasoline-free-future-and-how-to-get-there-if-ever/#comment-129022 Mon, 06 Aug 2012 18:43:30 +0000 http://cleantechnica.com/?p=37379#comment-129022 […] 90th running of the Pike’s Peak International Hill Climb.     As written before at CleanTechnica, in major races like the Indianapolis 500, methanol is a standard fuel. This year the list of […]

]]> By: James Van Damme http://cleantechnica.com/2012/04/24/the-gasoline-free-future-and-how-to-get-there-if-ever/#comment-119582 Fri, 27 Apr 2012 02:00:00 +0000 http://cleantechnica.com/?p=37379#comment-119582 Did you drive your water-powered car to Arlington and park in front of DARPA HQ? Or are you a couple atoms short of a molecule…?

]]> By: Ronald Brak http://cleantechnica.com/2012/04/24/the-gasoline-free-future-and-how-to-get-there-if-ever/#comment-119580 Fri, 27 Apr 2012 00:01:00 +0000 http://cleantechnica.com/?p=37379#comment-119580 Not quite sure what you mean, Glenn. A a solar & wind/battery/car combination will require a great deal less resources than the current oil/refinery/car combo. A carbon neutral feedstock/methanol/car will require resources to acquire feedstocks and produce and distribute methanol and due to the energy losses in making the methanol and the lower efficiency of burning methanol in an internal combustion engine as opposed to an electric motor, will require more energy input. A competitive methanol fuel cell would improve this, but still not make them equal to batteries in energy costs, and we don’t have these fuel cells yet.

]]> By: Origo1 http://cleantechnica.com/2012/04/24/the-gasoline-free-future-and-how-to-get-there-if-ever/#comment-119459 Thu, 26 Apr 2012 02:27:00 +0000 http://cleantechnica.com/?p=37379#comment-119459 Water is the only transportable non-carbon fuel in the world available in the quantities necessary to supplant gasoline and diesel fuel
Economically, water requires no investment in exploration, drilling, refining, mining, transportation, service stations, and requires no disposal of nuclear waste, or coal fly ash.
Extracting hydrogen and oxygen from water on board motor vehicles is easily possible using current technology such as photocatalysts, light, and ambient heat to power the process. I have tried to donate a water dissociation system to the Advanced Research Projects Agency-Energy [ARPA-E] of the U.S. Department of Energy, but there is no procedure in place to accept donations, even though CFR title 48 provides for donations. ARPA-E suggested that I apply for a grant. I am a WWII veteran, too old to apply for grants to build the system.
Readers of Clean Technica know of the progress that has been made during the past few years in generating hydrogen from water.
Vehicles with internal combustion engines modified to use hydrogen as a fuel will have unlimited range, as will vehicles with fuel cells and electric motors. One pound of hydrogen will combine with eight pounds of oxygen to make nine pounds of water. Instead of carrying compressed hydrogen, five pounds of hydrogen can be carried in forty-five pounds of water.
Most passenger vehicles will be able to travel one mile on the hydrogen contained in five to eight liquid ounces of water. Honda’s early fuel cell cars carried nine pounds of compressed hydrogen at 5,000-10,000 pounds per square inch [psi] that needed to be replenished after traveling approximately 270 miles. That boils down to 30 miles per pound of hydrogen, or one mile per 1/30th of a pound of hydrogen—the amount of hydrogen in 4.6 liquid ounces of water.
Any portable water dissociation system should easily extract 1/30th of a pound of hydrogen from a few ounces of water within each mile of travel.
My water dissociation system uses modules that contain the photocatalyst, light-carrying optical fibers, water, and the means to separate and collect the hydrogen and oxygen. An advantage of using modules is that as new and more efficient methods of generating hydrogen, such as development of more efficient photocatalysts, become available, they can be incorporated into this system simply by upgrading the modules. Most of the other components of the system can remain as they are.
Water-splitting systems will not pollute the atmosphere with carbon dioxide, nor will it consume atmospheric oxygen. Unlike carbon-based fuels, water is recyclable, it is non-flammable, and it is non-explosive.
Water-splitting systems have the potential to eliminate the $1 billion dollars per day that the U.S. currently spends on foreign oil in order to run our cars and trucks.
Water as a fuel source will substantially lower the cost of energy, thus making a positive impact on the U.S. economy. Using water as a source of hydrogen and oxygen, will make it impossible for anyone in the energy industries to hold the U.S. hostage to energy shortages.
Water-splitting systems consumes no oxygen, and do not exhaust deadly gases. They can be used in submarines and other under-water vehicles, and in mines and subways. The U.S. military forces and civilian agencies could use these systems, without being burdened with the logistics of keeping their machines refueled.
As nothing is vented to the atmosphere, the result is a quiet system, which is highly important for military stealth vehicles. Also, tanks and other vehicles will leave no heat signatures for an enemy to detect. Heat from hot exhaust and steam is recycled as much as possible, is used where needed, and is conserved as much as possible by the use of insulation.
Water-splitting systems can be used in basements in homes and businesses to run electric generators. It can be used in manufacturing facilities. In the vacuum of outer space, the would have to be housed in a gas-pressurized, gas-tight container, to prevent the water from flashing into vapor and escaping.
Those military installations, businesses, factories, hospitals, airports, water companies, schools, and individual homes that generate their own electricity will be free
of any power outages caused by downed grid lines or grid overload, and they will be much less vulnerable to sabotage by terrorists, and less vulnerable to attacks from worldwide computer hackers.
Origo

]]> By: Bob_Wallace http://cleantechnica.com/2012/04/24/the-gasoline-free-future-and-how-to-get-there-if-ever/#comment-119418 Wed, 25 Apr 2012 19:24:00 +0000 http://cleantechnica.com/?p=37379#comment-119418 Current battery technology allows for an 80% to 90% recharge in less than 20 minutes.

Currently almost all our hydrogen comes from natural gas. That’s not the green way to go.

To use hydrogen we would need to build an immense amount of hydrogen infrastructure. That will happen only if EV batteries don’t drop to about $250/watt and increase about 50% in capacity.

BTW, the Honda home hydrogen generator takes about nine hours to generate enough hydrogen to drive a FCEV about 70 miles.

]]> By: ACT Expo http://cleantechnica.com/2012/04/24/the-gasoline-free-future-and-how-to-get-there-if-ever/#comment-119417 Wed, 25 Apr 2012 19:14:00 +0000 http://cleantechnica.com/?p=37379#comment-119417 Thanks for posting this Glenn. Are you aware of the annual Alternative Clean Transportation (ACT) Expo? It’s the largest alternative fuels and clean vehicle technologies conference in North America hapenning May 15-17. You may find it interesting. Agenda and speaker line up for the conference are at http://www.actexpo.com. Since you mentioned the Methanol Institute in this post, they are participating in ACT Expo in addition to others from across the alternative fuels spectrum.

Let me know if you’d like to attend and I’ll get you a media pass. Send an email to info@actexpo.com or call us at 888-993-0302.

Kristen

]]> By: Ross http://cleantechnica.com/2012/04/24/the-gasoline-free-future-and-how-to-get-there-if-ever/#comment-119411 Wed, 25 Apr 2012 18:21:00 +0000 http://cleantechnica.com/?p=37379#comment-119411 The gas station doesn’t have a long term future in the urban landscape. You exaggerate the difficulties of batteries and the charge times.

]]> By: Dcard88 http://cleantechnica.com/2012/04/24/the-gasoline-free-future-and-how-to-get-there-if-ever/#comment-119401 Wed, 25 Apr 2012 16:37:00 +0000 http://cleantechnica.com/?p=37379#comment-119401 Certainly another obstacle to overcome, hopefully in the near future.

]]> By: Glenn R Meyers http://cleantechnica.com/2012/04/24/the-gasoline-free-future-and-how-to-get-there-if-ever/#comment-119399 Wed, 25 Apr 2012 15:29:00 +0000 http://cleantechnica.com/?p=37379#comment-119399 I will visit your gasohol site. Thanks

]]> By: Glenn R Meyers http://cleantechnica.com/2012/04/24/the-gasoline-free-future-and-how-to-get-there-if-ever/#comment-119398 Wed, 25 Apr 2012 15:27:00 +0000 http://cleantechnica.com/?p=37379#comment-119398 Talk about what non-renewable resources we will use to produce said batteries.

]]> By: Donllaw http://cleantechnica.com/2012/04/24/the-gasoline-free-future-and-how-to-get-there-if-ever/#comment-119376 Wed, 25 Apr 2012 11:37:00 +0000 http://cleantechnica.com/?p=37379#comment-119376 Lets not throw out Ethanol please see http://www.gstgrounding.com/gasohol

]]> By: anne http://cleantechnica.com/2012/04/24/the-gasoline-free-future-and-how-to-get-there-if-ever/#comment-119364 Wed, 25 Apr 2012 06:49:00 +0000 http://cleantechnica.com/?p=37379#comment-119364 I live in Europe and I have never seen a hydrogen refueling station, nor is there any hydrogen vehicle on sale. I’m not sure what you’re talking about, but it seems you think rhetoric can compensate for the fact that the much hyped hydrogen economy is going nowhere.

]]> By: John Bailo http://cleantechnica.com/2012/04/24/the-gasoline-free-future-and-how-to-get-there-if-ever/#comment-119360 Wed, 25 Apr 2012 06:21:00 +0000 http://cleantechnica.com/?p=37379#comment-119360 There is no battery infrastructure “in place”.

There is a gas station on every corner of every major intersection, and it would be no problem to add a hydrogen pump.

We already product enough hydrogen to power 110 million fuel cell cars!

And unlike unworkable batteries, it takes 3 minutes, not 3 hours to refuel a hydrogen tank!

]]> By: Bob_Wallace http://cleantechnica.com/2012/04/24/the-gasoline-free-future-and-how-to-get-there-if-ever/#comment-119357 Wed, 25 Apr 2012 06:13:00 +0000 http://cleantechnica.com/?p=37379#comment-119357 Unlikely.

Hydrogen generation is an inefficient use of electricity. EVs are extremely efficient.

The electricity distribution system is already in place. A guy does not need to purchase and install equipment in his garage to make ‘EV fuel'; just use the outlet that is already on the wall.

Hydrogen would mean that infrastructure would need to be created for 100% of all vehicles. We need only to install some rapid charge points along travel corridors and additional outlets at parking spaces to complete the existing electrical infrastructure,

Unless EV batteries fail to become affordable (unlikely) and/or fuel cells become extremely inexpensive (also unlikely) then hydrogen fuel cell vehicles will not survive.

]]> By: Newpapyrus http://cleantechnica.com/2012/04/24/the-gasoline-free-future-and-how-to-get-there-if-ever/#comment-119354 Wed, 25 Apr 2012 05:56:00 +0000 http://cleantechnica.com/?p=37379#comment-119354 I’m all for flex fuel vehicles but we already know how to convert methanol into gasoline which would make the purchase of such vehicles unnecessary.

]]> By: Dcard88 http://cleantechnica.com/2012/04/24/the-gasoline-free-future-and-how-to-get-there-if-ever/#comment-119352 Wed, 25 Apr 2012 05:43:00 +0000 http://cleantechnica.com/?p=37379#comment-119352 If ever”?

Not sure what 2018 has to do with ‘ever’. The latest hybrids from Toyota are already half way there. We just need a better battery, which could take 5 years or 20 years, but it would make no sense to downplay the likelyhood that we will have acceptable batteries within some useful time frame. I’m not suggesting we wont need short term solutions, but I think next gen hybrids will be much better than some M85 or E85 fuel.
by 2015 we will likely have cheap hybrids that get 50+ mpg.

]]> By: John Bailo http://cleantechnica.com/2012/04/24/the-gasoline-free-future-and-how-to-get-there-if-ever/#comment-119351 Wed, 25 Apr 2012 03:48:00 +0000 http://cleantechnica.com/?p=37379#comment-119351 Hah…please just ignore the complete COMMITMENT of nearly every technological nation on earth to Hydrogen Fuel Cells.

KIA in 2012 is delivering these vehicles to Europe.

Germany, Norway, England are building hydrogen highways.

These countries are also generating their hydrogen renewably with solar and wind and storing it for use in the electric grid.

The Hydrogen Economy has begun…it is the one “common language” of fuels that can be made by a guy in his garage, or a conglomerate with a solar cell farm and cost effectiveness.

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