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	<title>Comments on: 106 U.S. Coal Plant Retirements Since 2010</title>
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	<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/03/05/106-u-s-coal-plant-retirements-since-2010/</link>
	<description>Clean Tech News &#38; Views: Solar Energy News. Wind Energy News. EV News. &#38; More.</description>
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		<title>By: Bob_Wallace</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/03/05/106-u-s-coal-plant-retirements-since-2010/#comment-115394</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob_Wallace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Mar 2012 17:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=35733#comment-115394</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Here&#039;s the vehicle emission article...

http://cleantechnica.com/2012/03/09/care-about-your-heart-lungs-you-should-care-about-carbon-emissions-driving-costs-more-than-gas-prices-show/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s the vehicle emission article&#8230;</p>
<p><a href="http://cleantechnica.com/2012/03/09/care-about-your-heart-lungs-you-should-care-about-carbon-emissions-driving-costs-more-than-gas-prices-show/" rel="nofollow">http://cleantechnica.com/2012/03/09/care-about-your-heart-lungs-you-should-care-about-carbon-emissions-driving-costs-more-than-gas-prices-show/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Bob_Wallace</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/03/05/106-u-s-coal-plant-retirements-since-2010/#comment-115393</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob_Wallace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Mar 2012 16:58:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=35733#comment-115393</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Nasaengtech, I can appreciate why you as someone who earns their living from coal might be reluctant to believe that your industry is causing significant harm in addition to the useful power it produces.  (And thanks very much for expressing your opinion in a reasoned fashion rather than a rant.)

Let me steer you to the major study of the problems of burning coal - Paul Epstein&#039;s highly regarded paper.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/16/usa-coal-study-idUSN1628366220110216

&quot;Coal-fired plants currently supply about 45 percent of the nation&#039;s electricity, according to U.S. Energy Department data. Accounting for all the ancillary costs associated with burning coal would add about 18 cents per kilowatt hour to the cost of electricity from coal-fired plants, shifting it from one of the cheapest sources of electricity to one of the most expensive.&quot;

The paper itself is, unfortunately, hidden behind a pay wall, but being in the industry you might want to purchase  copy or go to your university library and read it

Now some have argued that 18 cents per kWh in hidden costs are too high, arguing that Epstein put a too high price on dead children because they had not yet proved that they would turn out to be income earners.   

Personally I don&#039;t care to get into that argument.  Devalue future earnings of those killed by coal emissions and we still are paying extra over and above what we pay at the meter.  If we want to make wise decisions about our energy future we need to take all costs into account.  If one source gets subsidies, add them in.  If a source causes tax or health insurance premium costs to rise, add them in.

Vehicle exhaust?  Absolutely.  Another hidden cost of burning fossil fuel.  There&#039;s an excellent article on this site that was published in the last couple of days.

The bottom line - fossil fuels are far more expensive than what we pay in direct costs.  And we need to be aware of those costs when we discuss whether clean technology is or is not affordable.

Currently PV solar, large rooftop installations in sunny locations, produces electricity at ~$0.16/kWh.  That can&#039;t compete against electricity coming from a paid off coal plant that&#039;s producing for &lt;$0.05.  But add in even $0.12/kWh of hidden coal costs and one can see that solar has already reached grid parity with coal.

And wind, at ~$0.05/kWh, is an incredible bargain.

]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nasaengtech, I can appreciate why you as someone who earns their living from coal might be reluctant to believe that your industry is causing significant harm in addition to the useful power it produces.  (And thanks very much for expressing your opinion in a reasoned fashion rather than a rant.)</p>
<p>Let me steer you to the major study of the problems of burning coal &#8211; Paul Epstein&#8217;s highly regarded paper.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/16/usa-coal-study-idUSN1628366220110216" rel="nofollow">http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/16/usa-coal-study-idUSN1628366220110216</a></p>
<p>&#8220;Coal-fired plants currently supply about 45 percent of the nation&#8217;s electricity, according to U.S. Energy Department data. Accounting for all the ancillary costs associated with burning coal would add about 18 cents per kilowatt hour to the cost of electricity from coal-fired plants, shifting it from one of the cheapest sources of electricity to one of the most expensive.&#8221;</p>
<p>The paper itself is, unfortunately, hidden behind a pay wall, but being in the industry you might want to purchase  copy or go to your university library and read it</p>
<p>Now some have argued that 18 cents per kWh in hidden costs are too high, arguing that Epstein put a too high price on dead children because they had not yet proved that they would turn out to be income earners.   </p>
<p>Personally I don&#8217;t care to get into that argument.  Devalue future earnings of those killed by coal emissions and we still are paying extra over and above what we pay at the meter.  If we want to make wise decisions about our energy future we need to take all costs into account.  If one source gets subsidies, add them in.  If a source causes tax or health insurance premium costs to rise, add them in.</p>
<p>Vehicle exhaust?  Absolutely.  Another hidden cost of burning fossil fuel.  There&#8217;s an excellent article on this site that was published in the last couple of days.</p>
<p>The bottom line &#8211; fossil fuels are far more expensive than what we pay in direct costs.  And we need to be aware of those costs when we discuss whether clean technology is or is not affordable.</p>
<p>Currently PV solar, large rooftop installations in sunny locations, produces electricity at ~$0.16/kWh.  That can&#8217;t compete against electricity coming from a paid off coal plant that&#8217;s producing for &lt;$0.05.  But add in even $0.12/kWh of hidden coal costs and one can see that solar has already reached grid parity with coal.</p>
<p>And wind, at ~$0.05/kWh, is an incredible bargain.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob_Wallace</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/03/05/106-u-s-coal-plant-retirements-since-2010/#comment-115139</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob_Wallace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2012 18:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=35733#comment-115139</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m pretty sure the worst offenders are the ones on the list.

Utility companies made the decision that these plants are less efficient and too expensive to upgrade in order to meet new standards.  Cheaper to shut them down and replace them with cleaner generation.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m pretty sure the worst offenders are the ones on the list.</p>
<p>Utility companies made the decision that these plants are less efficient and too expensive to upgrade in order to meet new standards.  Cheaper to shut them down and replace them with cleaner generation.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob_Wallace</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/03/05/106-u-s-coal-plant-retirements-since-2010/#comment-115137</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob_Wallace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2012 18:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=35733#comment-115137</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Here&#039;s some alternatives to burning fossil fuels for home heat:

1) Much more efficient homes.  Insulate, weatherstrip, do all the stuff that keeps heat from leaking out.  We can make existing houses much more efficient.

And we can build new houses so that they need little heat aside from what is given off my the people lining inside, sunlight coming in the windows and from the refrigerator.

2) Ground-effect heat pumps.  Stick a long plastic pipe underground where it is &quot;55 degrees&quot; year &#039;round and use circulate water from that &quot;moderate climate&quot; through a modified air conditioner.  (You know how much easier to heat your home when it&#039;s 50 outside rather than 20.  And how much easier to cool when it &#039;s 80 rather than 100.)

Use renewables to create the electricity needed to drive the compressors and pumps. 

I&#039;m going to guess that there are a lot more people doing efficiency upgrades to existing buildings than are mining coal.  

Ground-effect heat pumps are starting to take off.  I&#039;ll bet there are a lot more folks installing those systems than are mining coal.  If not now, then soon.

Hilllbilly?  Nope, you don&#039;t get to use that sacred word unless you&#039;re from hilllbilly country.  Like I am.  I grew up in Appalachia.  I know a little bit about mining coal.  It&#039;s time to start leaving coal in the ground.

Assholes are as assholes do.  You don&#039;t need to choose to be one.  Feel free to discuss your ideas and your worries with us.  I find that when people take time to discuss things usually all learn something new.

]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s some alternatives to burning fossil fuels for home heat:</p>
<p>1) Much more efficient homes.  Insulate, weatherstrip, do all the stuff that keeps heat from leaking out.  We can make existing houses much more efficient.</p>
<p>And we can build new houses so that they need little heat aside from what is given off my the people lining inside, sunlight coming in the windows and from the refrigerator.</p>
<p>2) Ground-effect heat pumps.  Stick a long plastic pipe underground where it is &#8220;55 degrees&#8221; year &#8217;round and use circulate water from that &#8220;moderate climate&#8221; through a modified air conditioner.  (You know how much easier to heat your home when it&#8217;s 50 outside rather than 20.  And how much easier to cool when it &#8216;s 80 rather than 100.)</p>
<p>Use renewables to create the electricity needed to drive the compressors and pumps. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m going to guess that there are a lot more people doing efficiency upgrades to existing buildings than are mining coal.  </p>
<p>Ground-effect heat pumps are starting to take off.  I&#8217;ll bet there are a lot more folks installing those systems than are mining coal.  If not now, then soon.</p>
<p>Hilllbilly?  Nope, you don&#8217;t get to use that sacred word unless you&#8217;re from hilllbilly country.  Like I am.  I grew up in Appalachia.  I know a little bit about mining coal.  It&#8217;s time to start leaving coal in the ground.</p>
<p>Assholes are as assholes do.  You don&#8217;t need to choose to be one.  Feel free to discuss your ideas and your worries with us.  I find that when people take time to discuss things usually all learn something new.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob_Wallace</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/03/05/106-u-s-coal-plant-retirements-since-2010/#comment-115132</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob_Wallace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2012 18:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=35733#comment-115132</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Do yourself and your kids a favor and get yourself retrained as a wind technician.  Right now the industry needs twice the trained workers available and the industry is growing rapidly.

At the end of  your working career you can look back with pride that you helped make a better life for your grandchildren and great grandchildren.  You will have provided for you family and made the world a better place.

(You will have also helped to make the price of electricity cheaper.  Wind on the grid brings down the cost of power.)

Just a friendly suggestion from an asshole...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do yourself and your kids a favor and get yourself retrained as a wind technician.  Right now the industry needs twice the trained workers available and the industry is growing rapidly.</p>
<p>At the end of  your working career you can look back with pride that you helped make a better life for your grandchildren and great grandchildren.  You will have provided for you family and made the world a better place.</p>
<p>(You will have also helped to make the price of electricity cheaper.  Wind on the grid brings down the cost of power.)</p>
<p>Just a friendly suggestion from an asshole&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Jeremydotcomm</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/03/05/106-u-s-coal-plant-retirements-since-2010/#comment-115128</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jeremydotcomm]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2012 17:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=35733#comment-115128</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[OK...  I&#039;m sure anybody who read my post is calling me an asshole hillbilly  by now but here are a couple questions I have for you.
1.  How are your efforts coming along to replace the burning of fossil fuels to heat homes.

2.  How many jobs have they created?
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK&#8230;  I&#8217;m sure anybody who read my post is calling me an asshole hillbilly  by now but here are a couple questions I have for you.<br />
1.  How are your efforts coming along to replace the burning of fossil fuels to heat homes.</p>
<p>2.  How many jobs have they created?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Jeremydotcomm</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/03/05/106-u-s-coal-plant-retirements-since-2010/#comment-115126</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jeremydotcomm]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2012 17:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=35733#comment-115126</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[OK assholes Im a coal miner out in remote Wyoming and thats all I&#039;ve ever done and that&#039;s all I know how to do.  So your efforts I take personally because your trying to starve my kids.  And for your info, my mine is just going to start shipping the coal over to China and India who will pay alot more than the US ever did.  So it&#039;s going to still be burned just not in the US.  So the only thing you did was drive utility prices up and employment down for Americans.  Wow! ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK assholes Im a coal miner out in remote Wyoming and thats all I&#8217;ve ever done and that&#8217;s all I know how to do.  So your efforts I take personally because your trying to starve my kids.  And for your info, my mine is just going to start shipping the coal over to China and India who will pay alot more than the US ever did.  So it&#8217;s going to still be burned just not in the US.  So the only thing you did was drive utility prices up and employment down for Americans.  Wow! </p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: DinAstorNY</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/03/05/106-u-s-coal-plant-retirements-since-2010/#comment-115003</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DinAstorNY]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Mar 2012 20:36:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=35733#comment-115003</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There is only a 1% difference between shutdown and CO2 reductions. Closing down coal is good but all of the worst offenders should be first on the list.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is only a 1% difference between shutdown and CO2 reductions. Closing down coal is good but all of the worst offenders should be first on the list.</p>
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