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	<title>Comments on: Over 31? You May Still Buy a Hybrid by 2020</title>
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	<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/02/23/over-31-you-may-still-buy-a-hybrid-by-2020/</link>
	<description>Clean Tech News &#38; Views: Solar Energy News. Wind Energy News. EV News. &#38; More.</description>
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		<title>By: Zachary Shahan</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/02/23/over-31-you-may-still-buy-a-hybrid-by-2020/#comment-114416</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Zachary Shahan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Feb 2012 15:32:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=35218#comment-114416</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think you misread her post. She&#039;s certainly not saying that. There is a common belief that young people buy hybrids more -- that&#039;s all that one comment was about.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you misread her post. She&#8217;s certainly not saying that. There is a common belief that young people buy hybrids more &#8212; that&#8217;s all that one comment was about.</p>
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		<title>By: Zachary Shahan</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/02/23/over-31-you-may-still-buy-a-hybrid-by-2020/#comment-114415</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Zachary Shahan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Feb 2012 15:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=35218#comment-114415</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Agreed. Well said.

Unfort., bringing up true cost triggers calls of heresy &amp; treason. :P]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreed. Well said.</p>
<p>Unfort., bringing up true cost triggers calls of heresy &amp; treason. <img src="http://cleantechnica.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" class="wp-smiley" /></p>
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		<title>By: Bob_Wallace</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/02/23/over-31-you-may-still-buy-a-hybrid-by-2020/#comment-114377</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob_Wallace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Feb 2012 19:34:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=35218#comment-114377</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There&#039;s some background that you apparently don&#039;t know about.

There&#039;s been an article floating around for some time talking about how &#039;youngers&#039;/Gen Y would be the ones driving hybrids.  

You failed to understand what you read.

Of course, that claim doesn&#039;t pass the sniff test, at least based on my experience.  There are a lot of hybrids around where I live and a lot of the drivers have grey hair.  

]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s some background that you apparently don&#8217;t know about.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s been an article floating around for some time talking about how &#8216;youngers&#8217;/Gen Y would be the ones driving hybrids.  </p>
<p>You failed to understand what you read.</p>
<p>Of course, that claim doesn&#8217;t pass the sniff test, at least based on my experience.  There are a lot of hybrids around where I live and a lot of the drivers have grey hair.  </p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Bob_Wallace</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/02/23/over-31-you-may-still-buy-a-hybrid-by-2020/#comment-114376</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob_Wallace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Feb 2012 19:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=35218#comment-114376</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You left out PHEVs.  My guess is that by 2020 the market will be dominated by EVs and PHEVs.  Both cars and light trucks.

Don&#039;t forget that many light trucks are owned by businesses and businesses tend to pay a lot of attention to the bottom line.  All those service/delivery trucks that scoot around town, they probably don&#039;t drive much more than 30 miles a day.  If they could plug in for 80% to 90% of their miles and still have the option to use liquid fuel for the long drives....

PHEVs should quickly replace hybrids once battery prices come down some.  Toyota might get their hybrid Prius to 55 MPG but their PHEV Prius is likely to deliver &gt;100 MPG (plus a small amount of electricity) to drivers.  That&#039;s the experience of Volt owners, many reporting 1,000 miles or more on a 9.3 gallon tank of gas.   One driver is reporting 3,000 miles per tank.

How long we produce PHEVs will likely be a factor of battery cost.  If EVs get adequate range and cost no more than a PHEV then the market will move away from any sort of ICE.

We don&#039;t need 300 mile range EVs.  The threshold, I think,  is somewhere around 175 miles.  With 175 mile batteries and 95% &lt;20 charging one can drive a 500 mile day with only two short charging stops.  Gasmobile drivers are going to stop at least once for fuel, food and peeing.  The immense &quot;fuel&quot; cost savings will make the second stop a non-issue.

--

I&#039;m expecting the next five years to be &#039;exciting&#039;.  The world&#039;s economy is coming back, gasoline/oil demand is rising, cheap oil is being used up, and all we can expect is much higher prices at the pump.

At the same time we&#039;ve got the Energy Secretary continuing to tell us that longer range and cheaper batteries are in our near future.  

Right now a non-subsidized $32.5k Nissan Leaf is about $6k cheaper to own and operate than is a $20k 30MPG gasmobile.  That&#039;s based on $0.08/kWh,  $4/gallon gas and 12,000 annual driving miles.

At $5/gallon the much more expensive to purchase Leaf becomes $13k cheaper to own/operate over 12 years.

The monthly cost difference during the five years of paying off the vehicles drops to around $100.  How many people are going to refuse to pay an extra $100/month when in a few years they will start saving $200 - $300 per month?



]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You left out PHEVs.  My guess is that by 2020 the market will be dominated by EVs and PHEVs.  Both cars and light trucks.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t forget that many light trucks are owned by businesses and businesses tend to pay a lot of attention to the bottom line.  All those service/delivery trucks that scoot around town, they probably don&#8217;t drive much more than 30 miles a day.  If they could plug in for 80% to 90% of their miles and still have the option to use liquid fuel for the long drives&#8230;.</p>
<p>PHEVs should quickly replace hybrids once battery prices come down some.  Toyota might get their hybrid Prius to 55 MPG but their PHEV Prius is likely to deliver &gt;100 MPG (plus a small amount of electricity) to drivers.  That&#8217;s the experience of Volt owners, many reporting 1,000 miles or more on a 9.3 gallon tank of gas.   One driver is reporting 3,000 miles per tank.</p>
<p>How long we produce PHEVs will likely be a factor of battery cost.  If EVs get adequate range and cost no more than a PHEV then the market will move away from any sort of ICE.</p>
<p>We don&#8217;t need 300 mile range EVs.  The threshold, I think,  is somewhere around 175 miles.  With 175 mile batteries and 95% &lt;20 charging one can drive a 500 mile day with only two short charging stops.  Gasmobile drivers are going to stop at least once for fuel, food and peeing.  The immense &quot;fuel&quot; cost savings will make the second stop a non-issue.</p>
<p>&#8212;</p>
<p>I&#039;m expecting the next five years to be &#039;exciting&#039;.  The world&#039;s economy is coming back, gasoline/oil demand is rising, cheap oil is being used up, and all we can expect is much higher prices at the pump.</p>
<p>At the same time we&#039;ve got the Energy Secretary continuing to tell us that longer range and cheaper batteries are in our near future.  </p>
<p>Right now a non-subsidized $32.5k Nissan Leaf is about $6k cheaper to own and operate than is a $20k 30MPG gasmobile.  That&#039;s based on $0.08/kWh,  $4/gallon gas and 12,000 annual driving miles.</p>
<p>At $5/gallon the much more expensive to purchase Leaf becomes $13k cheaper to own/operate over 12 years.</p>
<p>The monthly cost difference during the five years of paying off the vehicles drops to around $100.  How many people are going to refuse to pay an extra $100/month when in a few years they will start saving $200 &#8211; $300 per month?</p>
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		<title>By: Dcard88</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/02/23/over-31-you-may-still-buy-a-hybrid-by-2020/#comment-114366</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dcard88]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Feb 2012 15:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=35218#comment-114366</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[11% in 2020?  Uuuh, how about 80% of ALL auto&#039;s mfg in 2020 are either hybrid or EV&#039;s and about 30% of light trucks.  I cant imagine how that would NOT be the case.  By 2015 ALL auto makers will have at least 3 or 4 hybrids on teh market and the average mpg will be around 45, the same as Toyotas 2 hybrid autos are in 2012.  I would expect the next Camry to get 50mpg and the next Prius to get 55.  By 2020 we MAY have the ability for an EV to get 300 miles per charge for the same price as a combustion engine.  If we can do that, why would anyone want to pay 4 or even $5 per gallon of gas?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>11% in 2020?  Uuuh, how about 80% of ALL auto&#8217;s mfg in 2020 are either hybrid or EV&#8217;s and about 30% of light trucks.  I cant imagine how that would NOT be the case.  By 2015 ALL auto makers will have at least 3 or 4 hybrids on teh market and the average mpg will be around 45, the same as Toyotas 2 hybrid autos are in 2012.  I would expect the next Camry to get 50mpg and the next Prius to get 55.  By 2020 we MAY have the ability for an EV to get 300 miles per charge for the same price as a combustion engine.  If we can do that, why would anyone want to pay 4 or even $5 per gallon of gas?</p>
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		<title>By: Ivor O'Connor</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/02/23/over-31-you-may-still-buy-a-hybrid-by-2020/#comment-114338</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ivor O'Connor]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Feb 2012 04:55:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=35218#comment-114338</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The author is basically stating only young and stupid buy hybrids. Perhaps we need an author who understands reality and supports the future.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The author is basically stating only young and stupid buy hybrids. Perhaps we need an author who understands reality and supports the future.</p>
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		<title>By: quietman</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/02/23/over-31-you-may-still-buy-a-hybrid-by-2020/#comment-114328</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[quietman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Feb 2012 02:25:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=35218#comment-114328</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have to admit I used to get upset about gasoline prices. Now I hope they double tomorrow. It&#039;s over. I hope people like myself understand they are still paying to keep those prices low even if it&#039;s not at the pump. We are problem solvers as a whole. If oil isn&#039;t here we will still find a way to get around. Oil on a level playing field it can no longer compete. 

Please help end the torture. &quot;The only thing to fear is fear itself&quot; FDR]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to admit I used to get upset about gasoline prices. Now I hope they double tomorrow. It&#8217;s over. I hope people like myself understand they are still paying to keep those prices low even if it&#8217;s not at the pump. We are problem solvers as a whole. If oil isn&#8217;t here we will still find a way to get around. Oil on a level playing field it can no longer compete. </p>
<p>Please help end the torture. &#8220;The only thing to fear is fear itself&#8221; FDR</p>
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