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	<title>Comments on: Wind Levelized Cost of Electricity (LCOE) at All-Time Low</title>
	<atom:link href="http://cleantechnica.com/2012/02/09/wind-levelized-cost-of-electricity-lcoe-at-all-time-low/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/02/09/wind-levelized-cost-of-electricity-lcoe-at-all-time-low/</link>
	<description>Clean Tech News &#38; Views: Solar Energy News. Wind Energy News. EV News. &#38; More.</description>
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		<title>By: Bob_Wallace</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/02/09/wind-levelized-cost-of-electricity-lcoe-at-all-time-low/#comment-164305</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob_Wallace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Jun 2013 04:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=34747#comment-164305</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The EIA open source site gives a range for onshore wind with a low of $0.04/kWh to a high of $0.12/kWh with a median LCOE of $0.06/kWh.

The LCOE for coal runs from $0.01 to $0.12 with a median of $0.05/kWh

http://en.openei.org/apps/TCDB/

But that doesn&#039;t tell the full story.  First, wind has an operating cost of about a penny per kWh.  And it gets a subsidy of 2.3 cents per kWh.  That means that wind can sell for -1.3 cents and break even.  It can make money simply giving its electricity away (2.3 - 1 = profit).

Coal and nuclear plants can&#039;t shut down and turn back on quickly.  When demand is low and the wind blowing they have to sell their product for next to nothing and sometimes less than nothing in order to make wind farms drop out.  Even without the 2.3 cent subsidy they would be hurting just competing against wind able to sell for a bit over 1 cent.

If thermal plants sell close to zero a number of hours then they need to sell at higher prices other hours in order to stay in business.

Coal and nuclear depend on a relatively few hours of very profitable sales to keep their bottom line positive.  I don&#039;t know the number of hours in the US, but I recently read that coal plants in Australia make 25% of their annual profits during only 40 hours a year when demand is super high and the wholesale price of electricity it through the roof.

Now along comes solar.  Solar is starting to produce electricity under 10 cents (without subsidies).  The traditional earning hours for coal and nuclear are hot, sunny afternoons.  Solar is starting to kill those profits.  It&#039;s happened in Germany.  It&#039;s starting to happen in Australia.  Solar is lowering the wholesale price ceiling and wiping out the high revenues of peak demand hours.  Plus end-user solar is lowering peak demand.

And then there&#039;s natural gas, which is cheap right now.  If the wholesale price of electricity goes above 5 cents or so, on come the gas plants.  Away goes profits for coal and nuclear.

First week of May we saw a perfectly fine, paid off nuclear reactor close down because it was losing money.  We saw another which had been down for repairs announce that it wouldn&#039;t be coming back.  About a quarter of our existing nuclear reactors are in danger of bankruptcy.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/24/business/energy-environment/economics-forcing-some-nuclear-plants-into-retirement.html?_r=1

Australia is seeing coal plants closed due to lots of rooftop solar.

http://reneweconomy.com.au/2013/shift-from-base-load-slashes-value-of-state-coal-generators-92669

The utility business is getting a major shake up.  Interesting times ahead.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The EIA open source site gives a range for onshore wind with a low of $0.04/kWh to a high of $0.12/kWh with a median LCOE of $0.06/kWh.</p>
<p>The LCOE for coal runs from $0.01 to $0.12 with a median of $0.05/kWh</p>
<p><a href="http://en.openei.org/apps/TCDB/" rel="nofollow">http://en.openei.org/apps/TCDB/</a></p>
<p>But that doesn&#8217;t tell the full story.  First, wind has an operating cost of about a penny per kWh.  And it gets a subsidy of 2.3 cents per kWh.  That means that wind can sell for -1.3 cents and break even.  It can make money simply giving its electricity away (2.3 &#8211; 1 = profit).</p>
<p>Coal and nuclear plants can&#8217;t shut down and turn back on quickly.  When demand is low and the wind blowing they have to sell their product for next to nothing and sometimes less than nothing in order to make wind farms drop out.  Even without the 2.3 cent subsidy they would be hurting just competing against wind able to sell for a bit over 1 cent.</p>
<p>If thermal plants sell close to zero a number of hours then they need to sell at higher prices other hours in order to stay in business.</p>
<p>Coal and nuclear depend on a relatively few hours of very profitable sales to keep their bottom line positive.  I don&#8217;t know the number of hours in the US, but I recently read that coal plants in Australia make 25% of their annual profits during only 40 hours a year when demand is super high and the wholesale price of electricity it through the roof.</p>
<p>Now along comes solar.  Solar is starting to produce electricity under 10 cents (without subsidies).  The traditional earning hours for coal and nuclear are hot, sunny afternoons.  Solar is starting to kill those profits.  It&#8217;s happened in Germany.  It&#8217;s starting to happen in Australia.  Solar is lowering the wholesale price ceiling and wiping out the high revenues of peak demand hours.  Plus end-user solar is lowering peak demand.</p>
<p>And then there&#8217;s natural gas, which is cheap right now.  If the wholesale price of electricity goes above 5 cents or so, on come the gas plants.  Away goes profits for coal and nuclear.</p>
<p>First week of May we saw a perfectly fine, paid off nuclear reactor close down because it was losing money.  We saw another which had been down for repairs announce that it wouldn&#8217;t be coming back.  About a quarter of our existing nuclear reactors are in danger of bankruptcy.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/24/business/energy-environment/economics-forcing-some-nuclear-plants-into-retirement.html?_r=1" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/24/business/energy-environment/economics-forcing-some-nuclear-plants-into-retirement.html?_r=1</a></p>
<p>Australia is seeing coal plants closed due to lots of rooftop solar.</p>
<p><a href="http://reneweconomy.com.au/2013/shift-from-base-load-slashes-value-of-state-coal-generators-92669" rel="nofollow">http://reneweconomy.com.au/2013/shift-from-base-load-slashes-value-of-state-coal-generators-92669</a></p>
<p>The utility business is getting a major shake up.  Interesting times ahead.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Ian Oxenham</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/02/09/wind-levelized-cost-of-electricity-lcoe-at-all-time-low/#comment-164304</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ian Oxenham]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Jun 2013 03:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=34747#comment-164304</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[good point ... though I also realized that since wind competes with wholesale electricity (unlike a residential or commercial PV system which competes against retail), the proper comparison for wind even from an average price standpoint would be wholesale electricity, which tends to average to around 4 cents per kwh.  As you point out though, that price is driven down by the abundance of plants have already paid off their capital costs, and is not useful for comparisons against new installations of other generation facilities. 


Still, the average price comparison metric can provide a sense of how close wind might be to displacing existing fossil fuel plants.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>good point &#8230; though I also realized that since wind competes with wholesale electricity (unlike a residential or commercial PV system which competes against retail), the proper comparison for wind even from an average price standpoint would be wholesale electricity, which tends to average to around 4 cents per kwh.  As you point out though, that price is driven down by the abundance of plants have already paid off their capital costs, and is not useful for comparisons against new installations of other generation facilities. </p>
<p>Still, the average price comparison metric can provide a sense of how close wind might be to displacing existing fossil fuel plants.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Bob_Wallace</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/02/09/wind-levelized-cost-of-electricity-lcoe-at-all-time-low/#comment-164125</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob_Wallace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Jun 2013 00:03:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=34747#comment-164125</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The important comparison is how much new generation costs, not what the current average is.  Much of today&#039;s lower cost input comes from plants and dams build many years ago and now paid off.    


It makes no sense to compare a new wind turbine, solar panel, nuclear plant LCOE against, for example, the price of electricity coming from a TVA dam built in the 1930s.


An old, paid off nuclear plant can produce electricity for five or six cents.  In the best of cases a bit lower.  A new plant that has to pay for its capital expenses and financing would produce electricity above 12 cents per kWh.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The important comparison is how much new generation costs, not what the current average is.  Much of today&#8217;s lower cost input comes from plants and dams build many years ago and now paid off.    </p>
<p>It makes no sense to compare a new wind turbine, solar panel, nuclear plant LCOE against, for example, the price of electricity coming from a TVA dam built in the 1930s.</p>
<p>An old, paid off nuclear plant can produce electricity for five or six cents.  In the best of cases a bit lower.  A new plant that has to pay for its capital expenses and financing would produce electricity above 12 cents per kWh.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Ian Oxenham</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/02/09/wind-levelized-cost-of-electricity-lcoe-at-all-time-low/#comment-164122</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ian Oxenham]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 May 2013 23:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=34747#comment-164122</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[based on the source this article is citing, (http://emp.lbl.gov/sites/all/files/wind-energy-costs-2-2012_0.pdf , see pages 27-28 in particular), the LCOE of un-subsidized wind ranges from about $60 to $110 per megawatt-hour, or in other words, from about 6 to 11 cents per kilowatt hour.  For comparison purposes, the average cost of grid electricity in the US in 2012 was 9.87 cents per kilowatt hour for all sectors, and 11.88 cents per kilowatt hour for the residential sector (source: http://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/xls/table_5_03.xlsx )]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>based on the source this article is citing, (<a href="http://emp.lbl.gov/sites/all/files/wind-energy-costs-2-2012_0.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://emp.lbl.gov/sites/all/files/wind-energy-costs-2-2012_0.pdf</a> , see pages 27-28 in particular), the LCOE of un-subsidized wind ranges from about $60 to $110 per megawatt-hour, or in other words, from about 6 to 11 cents per kilowatt hour.  For comparison purposes, the average cost of grid electricity in the US in 2012 was 9.87 cents per kilowatt hour for all sectors, and 11.88 cents per kilowatt hour for the residential sector (source: <a href="http://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/xls/table_5_03.xlsx" rel="nofollow">http://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/xls/table_5_03.xlsx</a> )</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Wind Turbine Capacity: 50% is the New Normal &#171; Climate Denial Crock of the Week</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/02/09/wind-levelized-cost-of-electricity-lcoe-at-all-time-low/#comment-128377</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wind Turbine Capacity: 50% is the New Normal &#171; Climate Denial Crock of the Week]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2012 14:41:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=34747#comment-128377</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] wind turbines are more efficient. And, thus, new wind power is even cheaper. It is now at an all-time low, in [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] wind turbines are more efficient. And, thus, new wind power is even cheaper. It is now at an all-time low, in [&#8230;]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Wind turbine net capacity factor: is 50% the new normal? - reneweconomy.com.au : Renew Economy</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/02/09/wind-levelized-cost-of-electricity-lcoe-at-all-time-low/#comment-128325</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wind turbine net capacity factor: is 50% the new normal? - reneweconomy.com.au : Renew Economy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2012 00:12:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=34747#comment-128325</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] wind turbines are more efficient. And, thus, new wind power is even cheaper. It is now at an all-time low, in [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] wind turbines are more efficient. And, thus, new wind power is even cheaper. It is now at an all-time low, in [&#8230;]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Wind Turbine Net Capacity Factor -- 50% the New Normal? - CleanTechnica</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/02/09/wind-levelized-cost-of-electricity-lcoe-at-all-time-low/#comment-128124</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wind Turbine Net Capacity Factor -- 50% the New Normal? - CleanTechnica]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2012 14:30:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=34747#comment-128124</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] wind turbines are more efficient. And, thus, new wind power is even cheaper. It is now at an all-time low, in [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] wind turbines are more efficient. And, thus, new wind power is even cheaper. It is now at an all-time low, in [&#8230;]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Bob_Wallace</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/02/09/wind-levelized-cost-of-electricity-lcoe-at-all-time-low/#comment-127491</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob_Wallace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jul 2012 08:24:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=34747#comment-127491</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The LCOE w/o subsidies is the LCOE.

]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The LCOE w/o subsidies is the LCOE.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Bbx</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/02/09/wind-levelized-cost-of-electricity-lcoe-at-all-time-low/#comment-127465</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bbx]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jul 2012 18:22:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=34747#comment-127465</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[So what&#039;s the LCOE w/o subsidies? ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So what&#8217;s the LCOE w/o subsidies? </p>
]]></content:encoded>
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