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	<title>Comments on: Solar Grid Parity 101</title>
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	<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/01/12/solar-grid-parity-101/</link>
	<description>Clean Tech News &#38; Views: Solar Energy News. Wind Energy News. EV News. &#38; More.</description>
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		<title>By: Zachary Shahan</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/01/12/solar-grid-parity-101/#comment-119225</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Zachary Shahan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Apr 2012 22:24:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=33798#comment-119225</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[nice investment, eh?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>nice investment, eh?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Eisinga W</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/01/12/solar-grid-parity-101/#comment-119130</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Eisinga W]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Apr 2012 23:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=33798#comment-119130</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[price is now, april 2012, 4000 kw a year 6000 dollar.
including inverter and installation and connection to grid.
a meter placed for payments.
a Kw cost 0,25 cent so I get 1000 dollar a year payback..
over 25 years Kw price is 0,05 cents a Kw at this time already.
6000 dollars makes me in 25 years 25,000 dollars
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>price is now, april 2012, 4000 kw a year 6000 dollar.<br />
including inverter and installation and connection to grid.<br />
a meter placed for payments.<br />
a Kw cost 0,25 cent so I get 1000 dollar a year payback..<br />
over 25 years Kw price is 0,05 cents a Kw at this time already.<br />
6000 dollars makes me in 25 years 25,000 dollars</p>
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		<title>By: Solar Grid Parity in North Carolina (New Study) - CleanTechnica</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/01/12/solar-grid-parity-101/#comment-115998</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Solar Grid Parity in North Carolina (New Study) - CleanTechnica]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Mar 2012 14:03:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=33798#comment-115998</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] John Farrell noted in an article in January, grid parity is a complicated matter (and doesn&#8217;t take into account important health costs, greenhouse gas emissions costs, and [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] John Farrell noted in an article in January, grid parity is a complicated matter (and doesn&#8217;t take into account important health costs, greenhouse gas emissions costs, and [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Solar &#8220;Learning Curve&#8221; &#38; &#8220;Golden Goal&#8221; (Bloomberg Charts) - CleanTechnica</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/01/12/solar-grid-parity-101/#comment-115665</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Solar &#8220;Learning Curve&#8221; &#38; &#8220;Golden Goal&#8221; (Bloomberg Charts) - CleanTechnica]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Mar 2012 13:24:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=33798#comment-115665</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] to play with). In the U.S., this is something John Farrell recently wrote on in depth, showing that some locations have already hit grid parity and discussing the complexities of grid parity. As I think should be noted every time this comes [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] to play with). In the U.S., this is something John Farrell recently wrote on in depth, showing that some locations have already hit grid parity and discussing the complexities of grid parity. As I think should be noted every time this comes [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Zachary Shahan</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/01/12/solar-grid-parity-101/#comment-113618</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Zachary Shahan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Feb 2012 23:13:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=33798#comment-113618</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I haven&#039;t seen more on this (the type of thing you&#039;re interested in).

Solar PV reducing the price of electricity across the board still reduces the price system owners would pay if there weren&#039;t people installing solar. Not sure what you&#039;re looking for in this.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I haven&#8217;t seen more on this (the type of thing you&#8217;re interested in).</p>
<p>Solar PV reducing the price of electricity across the board still reduces the price system owners would pay if there weren&#8217;t people installing solar. Not sure what you&#8217;re looking for in this.</p>
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		<title>By: NickelCity</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/01/12/solar-grid-parity-101/#comment-113614</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[NickelCity]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Feb 2012 22:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=33798#comment-113614</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Zachary: Don&#039;t cheaper grid prices as we see in Germany inherently deteriorate PV system economics for system owners?  I&#039;m interested in how this is expected to impact the overall grid parity discussion.  

For example, maybe at $4.40 per installed watt, New York achieves grid parity up to 2% PV installed capacity in 2016.  But to achieve 5% PV deployment, maybe the price would need to be $3 per watt to overcome the negative feedback from lower power prices.  I&#039;m curious about how big of an effect this is expected to have.  Maybe it isn&#039;t very significant - but the peak price declines in Germany that you link to suggests a significant effect.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Zachary: Don&#8217;t cheaper grid prices as we see in Germany inherently deteriorate PV system economics for system owners?  I&#8217;m interested in how this is expected to impact the overall grid parity discussion.  </p>
<p>For example, maybe at $4.40 per installed watt, New York achieves grid parity up to 2% PV installed capacity in 2016.  But to achieve 5% PV deployment, maybe the price would need to be $3 per watt to overcome the negative feedback from lower power prices.  I&#8217;m curious about how big of an effect this is expected to have.  Maybe it isn&#8217;t very significant &#8211; but the peak price declines in Germany that you link to suggests a significant effect.</p>
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		<title>By: Zachary Shahan</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/01/12/solar-grid-parity-101/#comment-113596</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Zachary Shahan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Feb 2012 19:09:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=33798#comment-113596</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Not really. It&#039;s driving down the cost of electricity in Germany: http://cleantechnica.com/2012/02/09/solar-pv-reducing-price-of-electricity-in-germany/ 
It will need to be balanced out with wind, geothermal, hydro, etc., but that just makes sense anyway -- don&#039;t want all your eggs in one basket.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not really. It&#8217;s driving down the cost of electricity in Germany: <a href="http://cleantechnica.com/2012/02/09/solar-pv-reducing-price-of-electricity-in-germany/" rel="nofollow">http://cleantechnica.com/2012/02/09/solar-pv-reducing-price-of-electricity-in-germany/</a><br />
It will need to be balanced out with wind, geothermal, hydro, etc., but that just makes sense anyway &#8212; don&#8217;t want all your eggs in one basket.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/01/12/solar-grid-parity-101/#comment-113588</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Feb 2012 18:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=33798#comment-113588</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is a nice presentation.  I wonder how the economics of parity will change as PV capacity becomes significant relative to total consumption?  Seems like it will worsen PV economics, and maybe negate some or all of the improvements from declining system costs.  Is that starting to happen in countries like Germany?  ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a nice presentation.  I wonder how the economics of parity will change as PV capacity becomes significant relative to total consumption?  Seems like it will worsen PV economics, and maybe negate some or all of the improvements from declining system costs.  Is that starting to happen in countries like Germany?  </p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/01/12/solar-grid-parity-101/#comment-111261</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jan 2012 20:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=33798#comment-111261</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Absolutely.  We&#039;re seeing solar panels up and working for over 30 years with very little drop in output.  No one has found a &quot;solar panel cliff&quot; over which panels toss themselves after a few decades.

If you install a home array that gives you electricity at parity to what you pay the utility company today you are likely to enjoy some decades of almost free electricity.  In addition, during the &quot;20 years&quot; that is used for the parity calculation the price you pay for electricity will not increase.  Assume 3% inflation and after 20 years the price others will pay for electricity will have almost doubled while your cost will be locked into the day you connected your array.

The &quot;parity math&quot; for a homeowner needs to include a couple of decades of no increases in electricity cost plus some decades of free electricity.  

Same holds for utility companies.  They mislead themselves if they look only at a 20 year LCOE calculation.  After a 20 year payoff they will have a fuel-free, low maintenance electricity source that they can sell on the grid.  Much better than a 20 year old combined-cycle gas plant that needs to be fed a steady supply of less-available natural gas.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Absolutely.  We&#8217;re seeing solar panels up and working for over 30 years with very little drop in output.  No one has found a &#8220;solar panel cliff&#8221; over which panels toss themselves after a few decades.</p>
<p>If you install a home array that gives you electricity at parity to what you pay the utility company today you are likely to enjoy some decades of almost free electricity.  In addition, during the &#8220;20 years&#8221; that is used for the parity calculation the price you pay for electricity will not increase.  Assume 3% inflation and after 20 years the price others will pay for electricity will have almost doubled while your cost will be locked into the day you connected your array.</p>
<p>The &#8220;parity math&#8221; for a homeowner needs to include a couple of decades of no increases in electricity cost plus some decades of free electricity.  </p>
<p>Same holds for utility companies.  They mislead themselves if they look only at a 20 year LCOE calculation.  After a 20 year payoff they will have a fuel-free, low maintenance electricity source that they can sell on the grid.  Much better than a 20 year old combined-cycle gas plant that needs to be fed a steady supply of less-available natural gas.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/01/12/solar-grid-parity-101/#comment-111260</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jan 2012 20:26:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=33798#comment-111260</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s only fair that utilities be compensated for providing the grid - and all that means.

However, if people can sell their surplus PV-electricity based on TOS (time of supply) it should still be a good deal for the rooftop owner.  Peak hour wholesale is generally quite a bit higher than average wholesale.

If one can sell at peak TOS wholesale and buy back at off-peak (post sundown) retail it should be a good deal for all.  Utility companies should see their wholesale costs drop as they avoid very expensive gas peaker power.  The rooftop owner will still get very cheap &quot;storage/backup&quot; for their solar system.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s only fair that utilities be compensated for providing the grid &#8211; and all that means.</p>
<p>However, if people can sell their surplus PV-electricity based on TOS (time of supply) it should still be a good deal for the rooftop owner.  Peak hour wholesale is generally quite a bit higher than average wholesale.</p>
<p>If one can sell at peak TOS wholesale and buy back at off-peak (post sundown) retail it should be a good deal for all.  Utility companies should see their wholesale costs drop as they avoid very expensive gas peaker power.  The rooftop owner will still get very cheap &#8220;storage/backup&#8221; for their solar system.</p>
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		<title>By: Edward Kerr</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/01/12/solar-grid-parity-101/#comment-111238</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Edward Kerr]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jan 2012 16:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=33798#comment-111238</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[John:

As always good info and analysis. However, there is an option that could bring prices to &quot;over parity&quot; for an individual almost immediately. That being if a &#039;handy&#039; person took the time and effort to build panels DIY instead of buying &#039;off the shelf&#039;. With individual cells being around .60cnts that brings panel cost to much lower costs.

I realize that not everyone has this option but it is a reality. I hope to do such a project this summer and be able to share my experience with interested folks. I&#039;ll let you know how it pans out.

Ed]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John:</p>
<p>As always good info and analysis. However, there is an option that could bring prices to &#8220;over parity&#8221; for an individual almost immediately. That being if a &#8216;handy&#8217; person took the time and effort to build panels DIY instead of buying &#8216;off the shelf&#8217;. With individual cells being around .60cnts that brings panel cost to much lower costs.</p>
<p>I realize that not everyone has this option but it is a reality. I hope to do such a project this summer and be able to share my experience with interested folks. I&#8217;ll let you know how it pans out.</p>
<p>Ed</p>
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		<title>By: Solar is an Asset, Not a Cost &#8212; Why Focus on Grid Parity? (Reader Comment)</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/01/12/solar-grid-parity-101/#comment-111222</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Solar is an Asset, Not a Cost &#8212; Why Focus on Grid Parity? (Reader Comment)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jan 2012 12:41:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=33798#comment-111222</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] this great comment on a post on solar and grid parity yesterday and wanted to share it with more [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] this great comment on a post on solar and grid parity yesterday and wanted to share it with more [&#8230;]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Zachary Shahan</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/01/12/solar-grid-parity-101/#comment-111220</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Zachary Shahan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jan 2012 12:06:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=33798#comment-111220</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[nice. this is going up as a reader post right now :D

Thank You]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>nice. this is going up as a reader post right now <img src="http://cleantechnica.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" class="wp-smiley" /></p>
<p>Thank You</p>
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		<title>By: Altair IV</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/01/12/solar-grid-parity-101/#comment-111201</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Altair IV]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jan 2012 03:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=33798#comment-111201</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve been thinking that focusing so much on grid parity is missing half the point of going solar (or wind, etc).

Whenever you rely on grid power, you are always incurring a COST.  As long as you&#039;re using it, money is simply flowing out of your pocket and into someone else&#039;s.

But when you install a solar system, you are purchasing an ASSET.  You are becoming your own supplier.  You can even sell any excess you produce, making it a source of income.

Parity calculations only compare the cost of purchasing the panels to the cost of staying with the grid supplier, which is an important consideration, certainly.  But it distracts from the fact that after the (calculated) payback period is covered, what remains is essentially free energy, for the rest of the life of the system.

In the end focusing on parity is comparing apples to oranges.  It implicitly treats the solar purchase as if it were just another cost incurred, instead of  the INVESTMENT that it actually is.  It also relies on massaging a few key assumptions such as projected cost of electricity and the longevity of the panels.  Shift those assumed values a little and the whole outcome changes, because in the end the whole comparison is rather arbitrary.

So how about trying to remove the parity comparison from consideration entirely and measuring home solar on its own terms?
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been thinking that focusing so much on grid parity is missing half the point of going solar (or wind, etc).</p>
<p>Whenever you rely on grid power, you are always incurring a COST.  As long as you&#8217;re using it, money is simply flowing out of your pocket and into someone else&#8217;s.</p>
<p>But when you install a solar system, you are purchasing an ASSET.  You are becoming your own supplier.  You can even sell any excess you produce, making it a source of income.</p>
<p>Parity calculations only compare the cost of purchasing the panels to the cost of staying with the grid supplier, which is an important consideration, certainly.  But it distracts from the fact that after the (calculated) payback period is covered, what remains is essentially free energy, for the rest of the life of the system.</p>
<p>In the end focusing on parity is comparing apples to oranges.  It implicitly treats the solar purchase as if it were just another cost incurred, instead of  the INVESTMENT that it actually is.  It also relies on massaging a few key assumptions such as projected cost of electricity and the longevity of the panels.  Shift those assumed values a little and the whole outcome changes, because in the end the whole comparison is rather arbitrary.</p>
<p>So how about trying to remove the parity comparison from consideration entirely and measuring home solar on its own terms?</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/01/12/solar-grid-parity-101/#comment-111200</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jan 2012 03:21:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=33798#comment-111200</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[#5 is almost the same as #4, with an icon moved.
#6 is blank.
#9, 11, and 12 have a messed up line. &quot;Project life&quot; is overlaid with &quot;Interest, maintenance, etc&quot;.

&quot;... depending on the type of state policy for net metering, the customer can essentially spin their electric meter backward when their solar panels produce electricity. ...&quot;

If solar takes off, those policies will be unsustainable. People will have to sell their excess power at the wholesale price, not the retail. The grid still has to be paid for. 
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#5 is almost the same as #4, with an icon moved.<br />
#6 is blank.<br />
#9, 11, and 12 have a messed up line. &#8220;Project life&#8221; is overlaid with &#8220;Interest, maintenance, etc&#8221;.</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230; depending on the type of state policy for net metering, the customer can essentially spin their electric meter backward when their solar panels produce electricity. &#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>If solar takes off, those policies will be unsustainable. People will have to sell their excess power at the wholesale price, not the retail. The grid still has to be paid for. </p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Zachary Shahan</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/01/12/solar-grid-parity-101/#comment-111179</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Zachary Shahan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jan 2012 20:09:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=33798#comment-111179</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Nice.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: David Lipschitz</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2012/01/12/solar-grid-parity-101/#comment-111177</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Lipschitz]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jan 2012 19:55:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=33798#comment-111177</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In South Africa we will be at Grid Parity under certain conditions by June 2012. See http://mypowerstation-sa.blogspot.com/2011/12/grid-tied-pv-cheaper-than-municipal.html]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In South Africa we will be at Grid Parity under certain conditions by June 2012. See <a href="http://mypowerstation-sa.blogspot.com/2011/12/grid-tied-pv-cheaper-than-municipal.html" rel="nofollow">http://mypowerstation-sa.blogspot.com/2011/12/grid-tied-pv-cheaper-than-municipal.html</a></p>
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