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	<title>Comments on: Optical Solar Furnace Expected to Slash Cost of Solar Panels</title>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2011/11/28/optical-solar-furnace-expected-to-slash-cost-of-solar-panels/#comment-108299</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 21:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=31983#comment-108299</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Agreed.

This is what I try to focus our site on a lot, as I think this is one of the most needed things,.. maybe THE most needed.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreed.</p>
<p>This is what I try to focus our site on a lot, as I think this is one of the most needed things,.. maybe THE most needed.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2011/11/28/optical-solar-furnace-expected-to-slash-cost-of-solar-panels/#comment-108298</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 21:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=31983#comment-108298</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Agreed]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreed</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2011/11/28/optical-solar-furnace-expected-to-slash-cost-of-solar-panels/#comment-108296</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 19:51:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=31983#comment-108296</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[We&#039;re way off of topic.  I&#039;ll (probably) make this my last &#039;investment&#039; post.

Marketing is different than sales.  Yes, salespeople can do marketing, but marketing can be done quite well without a sales staff.

Mutual funds are very clear about their management fees.  They are required by law to disclose.  And, yes, marketing costs come out of those management fees.

Non-managed, no load mutual funds can have management fees under 0.25% of the investment.

Managed funds will have much higher management fees.

Load funds can take as much as 8.5% of your investment money right off the top (or with a &#039;rear end load&#039;).

With a no load fund 100% of your invested dollars go to purchase stock for your account.  With a high load fund less than 95% of your dollars get invested.


As far as &quot;guidance from a pro&quot;, if you are just starting out you might
want to pay a &#039;fee only&#039; investment adviser to help you get started.  That
person will accept no kickback (or shouldn&#039;t be taking kickbacks) from the
investment he/she steers you into.  They should be working 100% for you and
working for the hourly fee you pay them.

I&#039;d advise staying away from &#039;no fee&#039; advisers.  It takes only a moment of
reflection to realize that someone is paying them.  Now some no fee
advisers may be great people who will do you well, but there is no way to
tell them from the ones who will steer your dollars toward the investments
that give the adviser the largest kick back.

Some years back I had a friend who disliked the profession that he had
ended up and decided that he might want to be an investor adviser.  He took
the courses, passed the tests, got the certificates, and went to work.

After a year or so he quit.  He found that no matter how hard he tried he
found that the pressure was to sell high load investments in order to keep
his job with a couple of firms he tried working for.  He was forced to work
for the companies&#039; interests and not his clients&#039; interests.  Never forget
that money has a significant corrupting influence.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We&#8217;re way off of topic.  I&#8217;ll (probably) make this my last &#8216;investment&#8217; post.</p>
<p>Marketing is different than sales.  Yes, salespeople can do marketing, but marketing can be done quite well without a sales staff.</p>
<p>Mutual funds are very clear about their management fees.  They are required by law to disclose.  And, yes, marketing costs come out of those management fees.</p>
<p>Non-managed, no load mutual funds can have management fees under 0.25% of the investment.</p>
<p>Managed funds will have much higher management fees.</p>
<p>Load funds can take as much as 8.5% of your investment money right off the top (or with a &#8216;rear end load&#8217;).</p>
<p>With a no load fund 100% of your invested dollars go to purchase stock for your account.  With a high load fund less than 95% of your dollars get invested.</p>
<p>As far as &#8220;guidance from a pro&#8221;, if you are just starting out you might<br />
want to pay a &#8216;fee only&#8217; investment adviser to help you get started.  That<br />
person will accept no kickback (or shouldn&#8217;t be taking kickbacks) from the<br />
investment he/she steers you into.  They should be working 100% for you and<br />
working for the hourly fee you pay them.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d advise staying away from &#8216;no fee&#8217; advisers.  It takes only a moment of<br />
reflection to realize that someone is paying them.  Now some no fee<br />
advisers may be great people who will do you well, but there is no way to<br />
tell them from the ones who will steer your dollars toward the investments<br />
that give the adviser the largest kick back.</p>
<p>Some years back I had a friend who disliked the profession that he had<br />
ended up and decided that he might want to be an investor adviser.  He took<br />
the courses, passed the tests, got the certificates, and went to work.</p>
<p>After a year or so he quit.  He found that no matter how hard he tried he<br />
found that the pressure was to sell high load investments in order to keep<br />
his job with a couple of firms he tried working for.  He was forced to work<br />
for the companies&#8217; interests and not his clients&#8217; interests.  Never forget<br />
that money has a significant corrupting influence.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2011/11/28/optical-solar-furnace-expected-to-slash-cost-of-solar-panels/#comment-108294</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 18:57:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=31983#comment-108294</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Marketing is different from employing a sales staff&quot;.   Would you care to rephrase that?   The sales staff are a vital part of marketing, even the people who  go &quot;sell&#039; advertising to attract customers. Anybody seeking business in whatever manner is a &quot;sales person&quot;.  It&#039;s a good and important role, and results in &quot;jobs&quot; for others.  It all depends on good people Bob.  I&#039;m very sorry that you have had bad experiences with the bad sales people of the world (haven&#039;t we all).  I just hope armies of good sales people will market and promote renewable energy in ways will will aspire to and more quickly generate greater volume of people wanting renewable energy.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Marketing is different from employing a sales staff&#8221;.   Would you care to rephrase that?   The sales staff are a vital part of marketing, even the people who  go &#8220;sell&#8217; advertising to attract customers. Anybody seeking business in whatever manner is a &#8220;sales person&#8221;.  It&#8217;s a good and important role, and results in &#8220;jobs&#8221; for others.  It all depends on good people Bob.  I&#8217;m very sorry that you have had bad experiences with the bad sales people of the world (haven&#8217;t we all).  I just hope armies of good sales people will market and promote renewable energy in ways will will aspire to and more quickly generate greater volume of people wanting renewable energy.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2011/11/28/optical-solar-furnace-expected-to-slash-cost-of-solar-panels/#comment-108293</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 18:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=31983#comment-108293</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t want to argue with you Bob.  The &quot;no load&quot; funds have marketing expenses just like any other company.  The &quot;no load&quot; implies there is no sales charge and that&#039;s basically a lie. Their marketing costs are buried in the fund expenses.  Read the prospectuses and other literature. They&#039;re right there listed as %&#039;s. Rest assured every company has marketing costs.  So, people still pay their marketing costs, and get no guidance from a pro.  Structure the costs however you want, you&#039;re going to pay for it one way or another.  I just hope you get good guidance from a professional in whatever way you choose to pay for it. (definitely not CNBC broadcast).  Picking the right people for our teams is a vital skill in life.  Best regards for steering clear of the bad sales people and prosperity in all you do.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t want to argue with you Bob.  The &#8220;no load&#8221; funds have marketing expenses just like any other company.  The &#8220;no load&#8221; implies there is no sales charge and that&#8217;s basically a lie. Their marketing costs are buried in the fund expenses.  Read the prospectuses and other literature. They&#8217;re right there listed as %&#8217;s. Rest assured every company has marketing costs.  So, people still pay their marketing costs, and get no guidance from a pro.  Structure the costs however you want, you&#8217;re going to pay for it one way or another.  I just hope you get good guidance from a professional in whatever way you choose to pay for it. (definitely not CNBC broadcast).  Picking the right people for our teams is a vital skill in life.  Best regards for steering clear of the bad sales people and prosperity in all you do.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2011/11/28/optical-solar-furnace-expected-to-slash-cost-of-solar-panels/#comment-108292</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 18:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=31983#comment-108292</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Marketing is different than employing a sales staff.

Some mutual funds are no load.  Some mutual funds carry a high load with much of the load going to the &quot;investment advisers&quot; who sell the product. 
(Would you please cut your posts into paragraphs?)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marketing is different than employing a sales staff.</p>
<p>Some mutual funds are no load.  Some mutual funds carry a high load with much of the load going to the &#8220;investment advisers&#8221; who sell the product.<br />
(Would you please cut your posts into paragraphs?)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2011/11/28/optical-solar-furnace-expected-to-slash-cost-of-solar-panels/#comment-108290</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 18:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=31983#comment-108290</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Everything needs to get marketed Bob. Good businesses need to market to their customers, and market to people who have capital to invest.  That&#039;s just the reality of it.  Good sales people serve a vital function. Without them there is no business, and no work. Great engineering has been accomplished, but without effective marketing never reached the prosperity it should have.   Most families do their work well in their chosen occupation, spend time with family or things they enjoy, and should have a team for the rest. Otherwise they will make all the rookie mistakes, that the predators depend on to pick them off, and take their money. Some of the do it yourselfers for everything become jacks of all trades, and masters of none.   Most people don&#039;t have or want to be out there seeking investments, and many wouldn&#039;t know how to properly analyze it even if they did.  There are lots of great investments, that won&#039;t just come knocking on people&#039;s doors and ask to get bought.   (Just to be perfectly clear: I am not selling anything.  I do offer people thoughts, as a neighborly gesture to people I like, because the news , media, etc.  just have so much noise that confuse things and steer people toward what they&#039;re selling.  In a puzzling manner I find sometimes if I tell people the truth, they think the opposite.  Maybe they&#039;re just used to getting lied to by the bad sales people of the world.  I&#039;ve discovered this phenomena over many years, telling people basic facts, and they suggest the opposite, or it&#039;s not what they expect.) I hope for your sake you have good teams working for you in whatever areas you don&#039;t want to specialize in, and have picked good people you can trust, who&#039;s interests are aligned with yours.  People will pursue their reward systems.  Nature of human behavior.  Sometimes the best individual investments are ones where we can have some insights, and be ahead of the curve with the right specializations.   Others are best left to pros with good teams and many decades of experience with economic cycles.  Best of success in all you do.  :-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Everything needs to get marketed Bob. Good businesses need to market to their customers, and market to people who have capital to invest.  That&#8217;s just the reality of it.  Good sales people serve a vital function. Without them there is no business, and no work. Great engineering has been accomplished, but without effective marketing never reached the prosperity it should have.   Most families do their work well in their chosen occupation, spend time with family or things they enjoy, and should have a team for the rest. Otherwise they will make all the rookie mistakes, that the predators depend on to pick them off, and take their money. Some of the do it yourselfers for everything become jacks of all trades, and masters of none.   Most people don&#8217;t have or want to be out there seeking investments, and many wouldn&#8217;t know how to properly analyze it even if they did.  There are lots of great investments, that won&#8217;t just come knocking on people&#8217;s doors and ask to get bought.   (Just to be perfectly clear: I am not selling anything.  I do offer people thoughts, as a neighborly gesture to people I like, because the news , media, etc.  just have so much noise that confuse things and steer people toward what they&#8217;re selling.  In a puzzling manner I find sometimes if I tell people the truth, they think the opposite.  Maybe they&#8217;re just used to getting lied to by the bad sales people of the world.  I&#8217;ve discovered this phenomena over many years, telling people basic facts, and they suggest the opposite, or it&#8217;s not what they expect.) I hope for your sake you have good teams working for you in whatever areas you don&#8217;t want to specialize in, and have picked good people you can trust, who&#8217;s interests are aligned with yours.  People will pursue their reward systems.  Nature of human behavior.  Sometimes the best individual investments are ones where we can have some insights, and be ahead of the curve with the right specializations.   Others are best left to pros with good teams and many decades of experience with economic cycles.  Best of success in all you do.  <img src="http://cleantechnica.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" class="wp-smiley" /></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2011/11/28/optical-solar-furnace-expected-to-slash-cost-of-solar-panels/#comment-108289</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 18:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=31983#comment-108289</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[No.

Rule one is &quot;A good investment needs no salespeople&quot;.

Good investments sell themselves.  Informed and cautious investors seek out good investments.  If you&#039;ve got a not-so-good investment then you have to pay someone to push it for you.

What you are talking about is investment strategy.  And what you say can be pretty much boiled down to one word.

&quot;Diversify&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No.</p>
<p>Rule one is &#8220;A good investment needs no salespeople&#8221;.</p>
<p>Good investments sell themselves.  Informed and cautious investors seek out good investments.  If you&#8217;ve got a not-so-good investment then you have to pay someone to push it for you.</p>
<p>What you are talking about is investment strategy.  And what you say can be pretty much boiled down to one word.</p>
<p>&#8220;Diversify&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2011/11/28/optical-solar-furnace-expected-to-slash-cost-of-solar-panels/#comment-108287</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 18:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=31983#comment-108287</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Understood.  Rule #1 is cut losses short , so they&#039;re easy to recover from.  Rule #2 is always remember Rule #1.  It&#039;s like having a circuit breaker in the house.  Hope it never switches off, but it can prevent major damage.  Every portfolio should have circuit breakers, because it&#039;s what people have left that counts.  At some point, people need to cash in and walk out of the casino (I really dislike the gambling metaphor, but it is suitable).  I have a chart that shows if people lose for example 50% , they have to make 100% just to get to breakeven, and at say average single digit returns how long it takes just to get to breakeven.  Sadly, many get sold on the poralysis of hoping it will &quot;come back&quot; (which really means that many buyers must exceed sellers to drive prices up, and they won&#039;t come back to a losing sector for a long time...)  I actually do investment work for people as part of my services work, and it&#039;s a responsibility I take very seriously.  Their financial future is something to be safeguarded.  Preservation of capital 1st (return of capital) and return On capital (earnings) 2nd.  Even people depending on interest in savings have taken practically a 100% pay cut with zero% interest rates.  That may force them to erode principal and draw down savings.  There&#039;s a careful balance of owning the best companies, getting good dividends, and renting money to companies or banks to earn interest.  If I can ever share any helpful tips or thoughts, I&#039;m happy to do so. (sorry a bit long and off topic. I&#039;m happy to share an email if that&#039;s helpful.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Understood.  Rule #1 is cut losses short , so they&#8217;re easy to recover from.  Rule #2 is always remember Rule #1.  It&#8217;s like having a circuit breaker in the house.  Hope it never switches off, but it can prevent major damage.  Every portfolio should have circuit breakers, because it&#8217;s what people have left that counts.  At some point, people need to cash in and walk out of the casino (I really dislike the gambling metaphor, but it is suitable).  I have a chart that shows if people lose for example 50% , they have to make 100% just to get to breakeven, and at say average single digit returns how long it takes just to get to breakeven.  Sadly, many get sold on the poralysis of hoping it will &#8220;come back&#8221; (which really means that many buyers must exceed sellers to drive prices up, and they won&#8217;t come back to a losing sector for a long time&#8230;)  I actually do investment work for people as part of my services work, and it&#8217;s a responsibility I take very seriously.  Their financial future is something to be safeguarded.  Preservation of capital 1st (return of capital) and return On capital (earnings) 2nd.  Even people depending on interest in savings have taken practically a 100% pay cut with zero% interest rates.  That may force them to erode principal and draw down savings.  There&#8217;s a careful balance of owning the best companies, getting good dividends, and renting money to companies or banks to earn interest.  If I can ever share any helpful tips or thoughts, I&#8217;m happy to do so. (sorry a bit long and off topic. I&#8217;m happy to share an email if that&#8217;s helpful.)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2011/11/28/optical-solar-furnace-expected-to-slash-cost-of-solar-panels/#comment-108286</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 18:07:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=31983#comment-108286</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I can give you personal testimony about losing money to investment sales people.

I paid a several thousand dollars in &quot;tuition&quot;, but I learned and did well after I graduated.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can give you personal testimony about losing money to investment sales people.</p>
<p>I paid a several thousand dollars in &#8220;tuition&#8221;, but I learned and did well after I graduated.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2011/11/28/optical-solar-furnace-expected-to-slash-cost-of-solar-panels/#comment-108280</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 16:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=31983#comment-108280</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You guys are right.  Money, or at least the perception of it, is very important to people in the US.  I&#039;m just trying to get past the paradox of , &quot;we won&#039;t do it until it&#039;s cheaper&quot;, and if people get stuck on that , masses would not adopt and the likelihood of it getting a lot cheaper without big volume becomes less probable.  Lots of examples came and went. THe 80&#039;s energy crises had everybody up in arms and we&#039;ll suffer the same cycles unless we can get people on board with renewable energy.  China sees it, as do other countries.   They are steaming ahead, while the bad sales people in the US have people seemingly hypnotized.   People need to have the perception of a good value, or other reasons to embrace it.  I observe the poorest of people who manage to find money for a cell phone.   They find money for it, because they really want it for whatever the reasons.  Somehow, we&#039;ve got to reach the core emmotions that drive people to sell them on wanting renewable energy.  Walmart has started to carry organic foods , because people in the market want it.  If enough people want renewable energy, people running companies in the markets will provide more of it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You guys are right.  Money, or at least the perception of it, is very important to people in the US.  I&#8217;m just trying to get past the paradox of , &#8220;we won&#8217;t do it until it&#8217;s cheaper&#8221;, and if people get stuck on that , masses would not adopt and the likelihood of it getting a lot cheaper without big volume becomes less probable.  Lots of examples came and went. THe 80&#8217;s energy crises had everybody up in arms and we&#8217;ll suffer the same cycles unless we can get people on board with renewable energy.  China sees it, as do other countries.   They are steaming ahead, while the bad sales people in the US have people seemingly hypnotized.   People need to have the perception of a good value, or other reasons to embrace it.  I observe the poorest of people who manage to find money for a cell phone.   They find money for it, because they really want it for whatever the reasons.  Somehow, we&#8217;ve got to reach the core emmotions that drive people to sell them on wanting renewable energy.  Walmart has started to carry organic foods , because people in the market want it.  If enough people want renewable energy, people running companies in the markets will provide more of it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2011/11/28/optical-solar-furnace-expected-to-slash-cost-of-solar-panels/#comment-108279</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 16:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=31983#comment-108279</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank you.  Avoiding the bad sales people like the plague is a wise precaution my friend.  They sell all kinds of things people wish for like the next huge money maker, and generally leave people like deer in the headlights as road kill, while they move on to their next victim.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you.  Avoiding the bad sales people like the plague is a wise precaution my friend.  They sell all kinds of things people wish for like the next huge money maker, and generally leave people like deer in the headlights as road kill, while they move on to their next victim.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2011/11/28/optical-solar-furnace-expected-to-slash-cost-of-solar-panels/#comment-108278</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 16:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=31983#comment-108278</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Agreed. They are fighting vigorously to keep as much money flowing to themselves as possible, and will continue to do so using every influence at their disposal.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreed. They are fighting vigorously to keep as much money flowing to themselves as possible, and will continue to do so using every influence at their disposal.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2011/11/28/optical-solar-furnace-expected-to-slash-cost-of-solar-panels/#comment-108277</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 15:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=31983#comment-108277</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As marketing people clearly realize, one key is getting people to think everybody else is doing it, and steer the herd toward mass adoption.  How much money do people spend on tattoos?  How many people have tattoos, that you wouldn&#039;t expect, because everybody else does?  How many people spend $70+ a month to sport the latest mobile phone and corresponding contractual phone plans?     Would these people spend an extra 5-10 cents a day, or $3 a month, for renewable energy, and a healthier life, if it&#039;s sold right?   I surely hope so....   Renewable energy is already cheap compared with other areas where people get hooked on squandering money.  (and can get majorly cheaper if the masses charge toward it).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As marketing people clearly realize, one key is getting people to think everybody else is doing it, and steer the herd toward mass adoption.  How much money do people spend on tattoos?  How many people have tattoos, that you wouldn&#8217;t expect, because everybody else does?  How many people spend $70+ a month to sport the latest mobile phone and corresponding contractual phone plans?     Would these people spend an extra 5-10 cents a day, or $3 a month, for renewable energy, and a healthier life, if it&#8217;s sold right?   I surely hope so&#8230;.   Renewable energy is already cheap compared with other areas where people get hooked on squandering money.  (and can get majorly cheaper if the masses charge toward it).</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2011/11/28/optical-solar-furnace-expected-to-slash-cost-of-solar-panels/#comment-108271</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 13:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=31983#comment-108271</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m convinced, that not even looking at externalities, solar and wind are already cheaper than coal and nuclear as new electricity options -- if you look at how long it takes to get a coal or nuclear plant up and running and what costs will be at that time. http://cleantechnica.com/2011/11/10/about-solar-energy-why-solar-energy/

But, yeah, getting policymakers and even the public to understand this is, not to mention getting them to factor in externalities, a challenge.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m convinced, that not even looking at externalities, solar and wind are already cheaper than coal and nuclear as new electricity options &#8212; if you look at how long it takes to get a coal or nuclear plant up and running and what costs will be at that time. <a href="http://cleantechnica.com/2011/11/10/about-solar-energy-why-solar-energy/" rel="nofollow">http://cleantechnica.com/2011/11/10/about-solar-energy-why-solar-energy/</a></p>
<p>But, yeah, getting policymakers and even the public to understand this is, not to mention getting them to factor in externalities, a challenge.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2011/11/28/optical-solar-furnace-expected-to-slash-cost-of-solar-panels/#comment-108270</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 13:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=31983#comment-108270</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[thanks. comments with links get held for moderation unless you&#039;re whitelisted. i was asleep :D  i&#039;ll try whitelisting you now, but can only whitelist names or email addresses (not IP addresses), so try to be consistent when logging in to comment.

consumers are willing to pay more, but translating that into better utility policies seems to be a challenge.

i recommend this roundtable of &quot;good&quot; utility company ceos if you haven&#039;t watched it (starts about 18 minutes in) http://cleantechnica.com/2011/10/21/utility-ceos-talk-solar/

a couple of them bring this up, but seem unclear on how to turn that into better energy policies.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thanks. comments with links get held for moderation unless you&#8217;re whitelisted. i was asleep <img src="http://cleantechnica.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" class="wp-smiley" />  i&#8217;ll try whitelisting you now, but can only whitelist names or email addresses (not IP addresses), so try to be consistent when logging in to comment.</p>
<p>consumers are willing to pay more, but translating that into better utility policies seems to be a challenge.</p>
<p>i recommend this roundtable of &#8220;good&#8221; utility company ceos if you haven&#8217;t watched it (starts about 18 minutes in) <a href="http://cleantechnica.com/2011/10/21/utility-ceos-talk-solar/" rel="nofollow">http://cleantechnica.com/2011/10/21/utility-ceos-talk-solar/</a></p>
<p>a couple of them bring this up, but seem unclear on how to turn that into better energy policies.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2011/11/28/optical-solar-furnace-expected-to-slash-cost-of-solar-panels/#comment-108269</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 12:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=31983#comment-108269</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I certainly make sure to point out these critical externalities whenever I mention cost.

On the money factor -- I think it isn&#039;t the only thing for consumers at all (the iPad is not a huge success because of its price, and people do still have values) but on the utility level, cost rules the day. 

We are all about the cool factor and the health factor and the national security factor here on CT, and try to stimulate consumer adoption by focusing a lot on that. But cost reduction breakthroughs are also fun, i think :D]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I certainly make sure to point out these critical externalities whenever I mention cost.</p>
<p>On the money factor &#8212; I think it isn&#8217;t the only thing for consumers at all (the iPad is not a huge success because of its price, and people do still have values) but on the utility level, cost rules the day. </p>
<p>We are all about the cool factor and the health factor and the national security factor here on CT, and try to stimulate consumer adoption by focusing a lot on that. But cost reduction breakthroughs are also fun, i think <img src="http://cleantechnica.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" class="wp-smiley" /></p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2011/11/28/optical-solar-furnace-expected-to-slash-cost-of-solar-panels/#comment-108268</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 12:55:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=31983#comment-108268</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[DSNI, i completely understand where you&#039;re coming from and agree with you, but as Bob notes below, our country&#039;s energy systems are not going to be transformed on that alone (even though they shuold be). Barring a significant revolution (go, Occupy!), money rules the day in the U.S., and short-term profits at that. Clean energy is in the match now, and, by my evaluation, is prepared to win it.

Nonetheless, back to your point, I&#039;m actually planning a piece focused on making the same point you are (I think) -- to be titled &quot;Too Cheap for Our Own Good&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DSNI, i completely understand where you&#8217;re coming from and agree with you, but as Bob notes below, our country&#8217;s energy systems are not going to be transformed on that alone (even though they shuold be). Barring a significant revolution (go, Occupy!), money rules the day in the U.S., and short-term profits at that. Clean energy is in the match now, and, by my evaluation, is prepared to win it.</p>
<p>Nonetheless, back to your point, I&#8217;m actually planning a piece focused on making the same point you are (I think) &#8212; to be titled &#8220;Too Cheap for Our Own Good&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2011/11/28/optical-solar-furnace-expected-to-slash-cost-of-solar-panels/#comment-108261</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 07:28:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=31983#comment-108261</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Give this a read.  It&#039;s not the sort of thing that I normally pass along. It popped up on one of my Google &quot;Alerts&quot; which I have set up on various renewable energy  topics.

Here&#039;s an investment guy and he&#039;s seeing money to be made in renewables.  That tells me that we&#039;re winning....

http://www.energyandcapital.com/articles/alternative-energy-warnings/1934

p.s. Avoid these investment guys like the plague.  They are not the route to financial security, generally speaking.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Give this a read.  It&#8217;s not the sort of thing that I normally pass along. It popped up on one of my Google &#8220;Alerts&#8221; which I have set up on various renewable energy  topics.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s an investment guy and he&#8217;s seeing money to be made in renewables.  That tells me that we&#8217;re winning&#8230;.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.energyandcapital.com/articles/alternative-energy-warnings/1934" rel="nofollow">http://www.energyandcapital.com/articles/alternative-energy-warnings/1934</a></p>
<p>p.s. Avoid these investment guys like the plague.  They are not the route to financial security, generally speaking.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2011/11/28/optical-solar-furnace-expected-to-slash-cost-of-solar-panels/#comment-108258</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 04:36:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=31983#comment-108258</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[the blog I keep trying to post spells it out as 3 1/2 cents per day for more renewable energy.  Super cheap.  Anybody can buy off on that.  Just get the mobile phone companies, or other subscription plans out of their pocket a little, who charge considerably more.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The cost of renewable energy put in perspective 
Steven Weissman, associate director of the Center for Law, Energy and the Environment &#124; 11/28/11 &#124; Leave a comment 

Would you be willing to pay 3 ½ cents a day to reduce the pollution from the electric power you use by 40%?

In a recent article, the San Francisco Chronicle talked about the high price of adding renewable energy to the grid. Citing a study prepared by the California Public Utilities Commission’s Division of Ratepayer Advocates, it reported that, on average, new contracts for renewable power are 15% more expensive than power from a natural gas plant.  he implication is that consumers should brace themselves for big rate increases as the new solar and wind projects come on line.  Perhaps it’s worth taking a minute to look at the actual numbers.

The utilities in California must deliver a third of their power from renewable sources by 2020.  Their renewable shares are already close to 20%. The question, then, is what the rate impact would be from expanding to reach the 33% goal. Let’s be conservative about this.  California Governor Jerry Brown is hopeful that the utilities will actually deliver 40% renewable power within the same time frame. So, let’s assume an additional 20% increment of renewable power.

If, as predicted, that new renewable power costs 15% more than the best alternative (natural gas), what would the effect be on consumer rates and bills?  Here is the math:

Purchasing 20% more power at a 15% mark-up adds 3% to the overall cost of power (.2 x .15 = .03).  The electricity itself comprises about half of the customer’s bill, so the additional cost of power would result in a 1.5% increase in the utility’s revenue requirement (if the current revenue requirement is 2X, the impact of the added renewables can be represented as 2X + .03X = 2.03X; the percentage change looks like this: 2.03X/2X = 1.015).

Rates would have to be raised by 1.5% to cover the added cost.  For customers with an average rate of 18 cents per kilowatt hour, that’s an increase of .27 cents (a quarter of a penny) per kilowatt hour. Customers using 400 kilowatt hours per month would pay an additional $1.08 per month. That’s on top of a current bill of $72.00.  For the typical family, the added cost is 3 ½ cents per day.

In our current economy, no rate increase is trivial. But this particular one is small. The utilities could raise rates twice as much this year alone just to cover inflation. And just think about how much this small increase can buy.  Since California regulated utilities already get about half of their power from sources with little or no greenhouse gas emissions (hydroelectric, nuclear, and existing renewables), that additional 20% renewable power can knock out about 40% of the emissions that remain. Not a bad deal, for 3 ½ cents a day.

Cross-posted from the environmental law and policy blog Legal Planet.

Tags: electricity rates, Greenhouse gas emissions, renewable energy, renewable power]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the blog I keep trying to post spells it out as 3 1/2 cents per day for more renewable energy.  Super cheap.  Anybody can buy off on that.  Just get the mobile phone companies, or other subscription plans out of their pocket a little, who charge considerably more.<br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;-<br />
The cost of renewable energy put in perspective<br />
Steven Weissman, associate director of the Center for Law, Energy and the Environment | 11/28/11 | Leave a comment </p>
<p>Would you be willing to pay 3 ½ cents a day to reduce the pollution from the electric power you use by 40%?</p>
<p>In a recent article, the San Francisco Chronicle talked about the high price of adding renewable energy to the grid. Citing a study prepared by the California Public Utilities Commission’s Division of Ratepayer Advocates, it reported that, on average, new contracts for renewable power are 15% more expensive than power from a natural gas plant.  he implication is that consumers should brace themselves for big rate increases as the new solar and wind projects come on line.  Perhaps it’s worth taking a minute to look at the actual numbers.</p>
<p>The utilities in California must deliver a third of their power from renewable sources by 2020.  Their renewable shares are already close to 20%. The question, then, is what the rate impact would be from expanding to reach the 33% goal. Let’s be conservative about this.  California Governor Jerry Brown is hopeful that the utilities will actually deliver 40% renewable power within the same time frame. So, let’s assume an additional 20% increment of renewable power.</p>
<p>If, as predicted, that new renewable power costs 15% more than the best alternative (natural gas), what would the effect be on consumer rates and bills?  Here is the math:</p>
<p>Purchasing 20% more power at a 15% mark-up adds 3% to the overall cost of power (.2 x .15 = .03).  The electricity itself comprises about half of the customer’s bill, so the additional cost of power would result in a 1.5% increase in the utility’s revenue requirement (if the current revenue requirement is 2X, the impact of the added renewables can be represented as 2X + .03X = 2.03X; the percentage change looks like this: 2.03X/2X = 1.015).</p>
<p>Rates would have to be raised by 1.5% to cover the added cost.  For customers with an average rate of 18 cents per kilowatt hour, that’s an increase of .27 cents (a quarter of a penny) per kilowatt hour. Customers using 400 kilowatt hours per month would pay an additional $1.08 per month. That’s on top of a current bill of $72.00.  For the typical family, the added cost is 3 ½ cents per day.</p>
<p>In our current economy, no rate increase is trivial. But this particular one is small. The utilities could raise rates twice as much this year alone just to cover inflation. And just think about how much this small increase can buy.  Since California regulated utilities already get about half of their power from sources with little or no greenhouse gas emissions (hydroelectric, nuclear, and existing renewables), that additional 20% renewable power can knock out about 40% of the emissions that remain. Not a bad deal, for 3 ½ cents a day.</p>
<p>Cross-posted from the environmental law and policy blog Legal Planet.</p>
<p>Tags: electricity rates, Greenhouse gas emissions, renewable energy, renewable power</p>
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