Comments on: 25 TWh of Wind Power Idled in 2010 in US – Grid Storage Needed http://cleantechnica.com/2011/03/27/25-twh-of-wind-power-idled-in-2010-in-us-grid-storage-needed/ Clean Tech News & Views: Solar Energy News. Wind Energy News. EV News. & More. Mon, 29 Dec 2014 13:11:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.0.1 By: anderlan http://cleantechnica.com/2011/03/27/25-twh-of-wind-power-idled-in-2010-in-us-grid-storage-needed/#comment-160225 Fri, 03 May 2013 15:40:00 +0000 http://cleantechnica.com/?p=25034#comment-160225 I’d like to know how much of the anointed base-load coal/gas/nuke power is wasted at night, as demand goes to something like 10% while a fossil plant might still consume 50% of its peak output fuel rate even when ‘idling’ with no load. You can’t just shutdown a base-load plant. I want to know how many TeraWattHours, how much fuel and money, and how many gigatons of CO2 we are just pissing away at night.

I want to know this because it might be huge. The story I’m guessing at is that we could completely remove a large percentage of our transport emissions by using EVs and charging them at night. I’ll say it again, we might could just *REMOVE* a big chunk of transport emissions altogether, for free, just by being smart, and utilize the ‘wasted’ emissions of nighttime base-load.

]]> By: Bob_Wallace http://cleantechnica.com/2011/03/27/25-twh-of-wind-power-idled-in-2010-in-us-grid-storage-needed/#comment-114733 Fri, 02 Mar 2012 00:43:00 +0000 http://cleantechnica.com/?p=25034#comment-114733 Not necessarily. Demand is generally lower in the spring and fall than in winter and summer. Water/hydro can be abundant in the spring. A lot of wind was curtailed in the Pacific Northwest last spring when dams were generating more power than the grid could absorb.

Additionally demand is higher during daytime/early evening hours. It might make financial sense to build wind capacity to furnish those hours knowing that there would be little late night market. Peak hour prices can be high enough to offset the loss of any nighttime sales.

Then there is the problem of stranded wind. Sometimes it makes more sense to dump some wind during those few times per year when the wind is particularly strong rather than spend money to install larger capacity transmission lines which would be underused most of the time.

Finally there’s temporarily stranded wind. The wind farm gets finished before the transmission lines are installed/upgraded. China had a big problem along those lines a couple of years back, they got turbines up much faster than other companies could run the wire.

]]> By: J D Gragg http://cleantechnica.com/2011/03/27/25-twh-of-wind-power-idled-in-2010-in-us-grid-storage-needed/#comment-114730 Thu, 01 Mar 2012 23:04:00 +0000 http://cleantechnica.com/?p=25034#comment-114730 If they are having to idle down the wind generating fields at night, and are therefore hurting the monetary returns, does this not mean that particular field was over-built to begin with? J.D.Gragg / OMNI I.P.

]]> By: Prius v (in 10 weeks) Outsells Chevy Volt for 2011 - Page 7 - PriusChat Forums http://cleantechnica.com/2011/03/27/25-twh-of-wind-power-idled-in-2010-in-us-grid-storage-needed/#comment-111691 Sun, 22 Jan 2012 15:10:11 +0000 http://cleantechnica.com/?p=25034#comment-111691 […] polotics around energy because of the money involved.) For info on the curtailed wind energy see 25 TWh of Wind Power Idled in 2010 in US – Grid Storage Needed | CleanTechnica Combing back to your question on how to compute it, for how I believe you can compute it more […]

]]> By: Calamity Jean http://cleantechnica.com/2011/03/27/25-twh-of-wind-power-idled-in-2010-in-us-grid-storage-needed/#comment-97026 Sat, 23 Apr 2011 20:37:00 +0000 http://cleantechnica.com/?p=25034#comment-97026 Anhydrous ammonia (NH3) can be made from water, air, and electricity. It can be stored more easily than hydrogen and can be burned in a turbine or modified Diesel engine. Tank trucks, railroad tank cars, or existing pipelines can move it from place to place. Google “fuel ammonia”.

The best solution for unusable wind electricity is to improve electrical transmission to move it to where it can be used, but fuel ammonia is a good choice for energy storage on a timescale of hours to months.

]]> By: Thought Solar Was Hard to Permit? Try Pumped Storage! – CleanTechnica: Cleantech innovation news and views http://cleantechnica.com/2011/03/27/25-twh-of-wind-power-idled-in-2010-in-us-grid-storage-needed/#comment-96394 Mon, 18 Apr 2011 18:01:04 +0000 http://cleantechnica.com/?p=25034#comment-96394 […] As we add more renewable energy to the nation’s mix, we need more energy storage, for intermittent sources like wind and solar, so this delay in storage is a real roadblock. Last year 25 Terawatt hours of wind power had to be idled for lack of energy storage. […]

]]> By: Dr. Nocera’s Invention May be the Future of Alternative Energy. But it’s Not a Leaf! – CleanTechnica: Cleantech innovation news and views http://cleantechnica.com/2011/03/27/25-twh-of-wind-power-idled-in-2010-in-us-grid-storage-needed/#comment-95968 Thu, 07 Apr 2011 07:00:56 +0000 http://cleantechnica.com/?p=25034#comment-95968 […] because there is too much power available, and the grid can’t handle the extra juice. Indeed, we wasted 25 TWh of potential electricity generation from windmills last year because we had no plac…. In the past, methods of storing this excess energy were terribly expensive (batteries), terribly […]

]]> By: One Way the Smart Grid Will Make Cheaper Heat (+ Wind Storage!) – CleanTechnica: Cleantech innovation news and views http://cleantechnica.com/2011/03/27/25-twh-of-wind-power-idled-in-2010-in-us-grid-storage-needed/#comment-95800 Fri, 01 Apr 2011 02:32:13 +0000 http://cleantechnica.com/?p=25034#comment-95800 […] 25 TWh of Wind Power Idled in 2010 in US – Grid Storage Needed (cleantechnica.com) […]

]]> By: BPA Formalizing Plans to Curtail Excess Wind Energy in Oversupply – CleanTechnica: Cleantech innovation news and views http://cleantechnica.com/2011/03/27/25-twh-of-wind-power-idled-in-2010-in-us-grid-storage-needed/#comment-95766 Thu, 31 Mar 2011 00:24:13 +0000 http://cleantechnica.com/?p=25034#comment-95766 […] Energy25 TWh of Wind Power Idled in 2010 in US – Grid Storage… […]

]]> By: Anumakonda Jagadeesh http://cleantechnica.com/2011/03/27/25-twh-of-wind-power-idled-in-2010-in-us-grid-storage-needed/#comment-95751 Wed, 30 Mar 2011 05:58:00 +0000 http://cleantechnica.com/?p=25034#comment-95751 Grid Evacuation is a must for expansion of Wind Energy.While planning,this must be taken care of.

Dr.A.Jagadeesh Nellore(AP),India

]]> By: Mitch http://cleantechnica.com/2011/03/27/25-twh-of-wind-power-idled-in-2010-in-us-grid-storage-needed/#comment-95744 Wed, 30 Mar 2011 00:21:00 +0000 http://cleantechnica.com/?p=25034#comment-95744 Hi,

“If you have an idea for using all that excess wind power, suggest it here. ”

Electric car batteries and Plug-in-hybrid batteries charged at night and during the day when there is excess power.

Mitch

]]> By: Nathang http://cleantechnica.com/2011/03/27/25-twh-of-wind-power-idled-in-2010-in-us-grid-storage-needed/#comment-95736 Tue, 29 Mar 2011 19:15:00 +0000 http://cleantechnica.com/?p=25034#comment-95736 There is a new lead acid battery technology that was just created that stores 70% more energy and works much better in extreme climates. Here is the link.http://www.greencarcongress.com/2011/03/pnnl-team-finds-that-new-electrolyte-mix-increases-energy-storage-capacity-of-vanadium-redox-batteri.html GE’s sodium sulfur batteries also will definitely be useful for this.

]]> By: Massive Amount of Installed Renewable Energy Wasted | The Renewable Energy Law Blog http://cleantechnica.com/2011/03/27/25-twh-of-wind-power-idled-in-2010-in-us-grid-storage-needed/#comment-95728 Tue, 29 Mar 2011 13:55:09 +0000 http://cleantechnica.com/?p=25034#comment-95728 […] post yesterday by Susan Kraemer on the Clean Technica blog highlighted a shocking statistic from Dr. F. David Doty on […]

]]> By: Zachary Shahan http://cleantechnica.com/2011/03/27/25-twh-of-wind-power-idled-in-2010-in-us-grid-storage-needed/#comment-95706 Mon, 28 Mar 2011 22:57:00 +0000 http://cleantechnica.com/?p=25034#comment-95706 shocking. thanks for digging up the info!

]]> By: Boneheaded1 http://cleantechnica.com/2011/03/27/25-twh-of-wind-power-idled-in-2010-in-us-grid-storage-needed/#comment-95698 Mon, 28 Mar 2011 16:58:15 +0000 http://cleantechnica.com/?p=25034#comment-95698 Transmission lines are the most important but the further you go the more energy loss in the lines. There are ways to minimize the power loss. The best idea is to use the wind where there are transmission problems as a way to generate hydrogen. This can shipped via pipeline or rail (the rail can be powered by the wind electricity) to more central generation sites (fuel cells or burned in turbines).

Another storage method is the resevoir method. Two resevoirs; an upper and lower. When power is needed drain the upper to the lower through hydo electric turbines. When there is excess power, use the excess to pump from the lower to the upper (“recharging” the upper). There is energy loss due to effeciency issues but better to save 50% than lose 100%.

Either way, we need to do something about this massive power loss. This is the stuff the stimulus spending should be doing; working to increase our energy independence.

]]> By: miro novak http://cleantechnica.com/2011/03/27/25-twh-of-wind-power-idled-in-2010-in-us-grid-storage-needed/#comment-95691 Mon, 28 Mar 2011 12:40:49 +0000 http://cleantechnica.com/?p=25034#comment-95691 Count with me:
With investment about 15 000 000 USD I am able to build an energy storage with capacity of 1,26 GWh of electric energy (about 12 USD per 1kWh). Typical peak and peak-off period is 24 hours. So in 1 year I am able to store about 460 (=1,26*365) GWh of energy. To store that excess wind power of 25 TWh there is about 55 energy storages needed. Total cost of investment is about 0,825 Billion USD.

If you buy peak-off energy for 50 USD per MWh and sell it for 150 USD, with 25 TWh you get 2,5 Billion USD per year. More than initial cost of investment.

It seems to be good business.

You, Americans, are too proud to address me, niemand from Slovak Republic (Europe). Chine businessmen are clavier.

macmiro at me.com
peace … miro novak

]]> By: Alan S http://cleantechnica.com/2011/03/27/25-twh-of-wind-power-idled-in-2010-in-us-grid-storage-needed/#comment-95690 Mon, 28 Mar 2011 12:36:43 +0000 http://cleantechnica.com/?p=25034#comment-95690 The biggest problem with wind is that it is very available when we do not need it, ie at night, and not available when needed the most, ie middle of the day in the summer when wind is normally not blowing.

Also the transmission lines fall into the “not in my back yard” situation and are halted quite often by those that are yelling for alternative sources.

]]> By: Susan Kraemer http://cleantechnica.com/2011/03/27/25-twh-of-wind-power-idled-in-2010-in-us-grid-storage-needed/#comment-95681 Mon, 28 Mar 2011 01:01:56 +0000 http://cleantechnica.com/?p=25034#comment-95681 Ha ha…. Or that the cavier would never be as fine as that served on the Titanic!

]]> By: David M http://cleantechnica.com/2011/03/27/25-twh-of-wind-power-idled-in-2010-in-us-grid-storage-needed/#comment-95679 Sun, 27 Mar 2011 21:36:34 +0000 http://cleantechnica.com/?p=25034#comment-95679 There will always be a few short sighted people who deride developing technologies because it doesn’t happen fast enough for their liking. Their predecessors undoubtedly complained to the Wright brothers about their lack of Business Class seating.

]]> By: Bob Wallace http://cleantechnica.com/2011/03/27/25-twh-of-wind-power-idled-in-2010-in-us-grid-storage-needed/#comment-95678 Sun, 27 Mar 2011 21:10:58 +0000 http://cleantechnica.com/?p=25034#comment-95678 There’s been a problem of stranded wind in Texas for a while. That’s why T. Boone had to delay/give up on his Texas wind farm and move the turbines to other states.

Currently new transmission lines are being built to take Texas power north. Longer term we’re likely to see the Texas grid tied to the Eastern and Western US grids via the proposed Tres Amigas project and/or a series of HVDC lines running across the country.

http://www.powermag.com/POWERnews/2224.html

I’ve got no way to tell if the need is greater for storage or transmission lines. Perhaps it’s some of both.

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