Comments on: How You Can End Climate Change by Buying Pollution Permits on the Cap and Trade Market

By: Chad

Chad — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 21:32:36 +0000

Um, are you people retarded? This whole cap and trade thing is going to ruin the modern world as we go into a dark age controlled by the U.N. I won’t be surprised if i get fined for using too much toilet paper in the near future. I’m not saying we shouldn’t conserve and recycle but to do this so blindly is just dumb, we deserve what we get i guess.

By: Chad

Chad — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 21:32:00 +0000

By: Ian

Ian — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 03:43:13 +0000

And if you don’t like WaPo for it being part of big media, jump straight to the video by the EPA lawyers themselves:

http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/02/epa-lawyers-challenge-cap-and-trade-for-climate/

By: Ian

Ian — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 03:43:00 +0000

And if you don’t like WaPo for it being part of big media, jump straight to the video by the EPA lawyers themselves:

http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/02/epa-lawyers-challenge-cap-and-trade-for-climate/

By: Ian

Ian — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 01:24:35 +0000

While I realize that big media may be funded by polluting industries, and I also agree that nobody is obliged to find ‘facts from gross, icky conservative think-tanks…

I believe that runaway optimism manifest in limited viewpoints is a much worse type of pollution.

So, here, consider this article from two EPA lawyers:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/30/AR2009103002988.html

By: Ian

Ian — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 01:24:00 +0000

While I realize that big media may be funded by polluting industries, and I also agree that nobody is obliged to find ‘facts from gross, icky conservative think-tanks…

I believe that runaway optimism manifest in limited viewpoints is a much worse type of pollution.

So, here, consider this article from two EPA lawyers:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/30/AR2009103002988.html

By: Susan Kraemer

Susan Kraemer — Wed, 28 Oct 2009 17:51:00 +0000

Ian, all of my source links in that series are all to the original environmental economists like Robert Stavins (on Why Free Allowances Are OK) who have worked for decades designing and refining legislation to reduce carbon pollution.

Or to studies like the German Marshall Fund Study on how Europe DID in fact reduce its carbon footprint successfully using (even flawed)(but fixable)cap and trade.

Unlike big media, this tiny blog is not funded by polluting industries, so I am not obliged to find my facts and studies from polluter-industry funded groups like the Cato Institute or the Heritage Foundation, which is deliberately fanning fears about climate legislation.

By: Susan Kraemer

Susan Kraemer — Wed, 28 Oct 2009 10:51:19 +0000

Or to studies like the German Marshall Fund Study on how Europe DID in fact reduce its carbon footprint successfully using (even flawed)(but fixable)cap and trade.

By: Ian

Ian — Tue, 27 Oct 2009 20:30:45 +0000

As with your last post on allowances (http://cleantechnica.com/2009/09/23/cap-and-trade-101-why-free-allowances-are-ok/), all I see is narrow reporting and wishful thinking. Your argumentation is almost entirely self-referential!

Take into consideration a wider array of evidence (like this excellent piece:

http://greeninc.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/10/27/climate-change-policy-and-safe-investing/) and also, do what you can to deal with comments like Sharon’s (http://cleantechnica.com/2009/09/23/cap-and-trade-101-why-free-allowances-are-ok/comment-page-1/#comment-101149).

That would be better blogging.

By: Ian

Ian — Tue, 27 Oct 2009 20:30:00 +0000

Take into consideration a wider array of evidence (like this excellent piece:

That would be better blogging.

By: Susan Kraemer

Susan Kraemer — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 23:30:00 +0000

Before you close your doors, Captain Morgan, check these options.

http://cleantechnica.com/2009/10/25/10-practical-suggestions-for-how-a-polluting-company-can-easily-reduce-its-greenhouse-gases/

Its cheaper in the long run to opoerate efficiently and make renewable power out of your waste.

By: Captain Morgan

Captain Morgan — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 18:22:16 +0000

I suppose that if there are no permits available, these nasty polluting companies will just shut their doors, eh? Do you think the EU governments will let that happen? Of course not … cap and trade is a money machine, and they’re not about to let it be sabotaged so easily. They will move the cap long before they allow a significant economic hit to their industrial base.

By: Captain Morgan

Captain Morgan — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 18:22:00 +0000

By: Susan Kraemer

Susan Kraemer — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 16:30:24 +0000

Before you close your doors, Captain Morgan, check these options.

http://cleantechnica.com/2009/10/25/10-practical-suggestions-for-how-a-polluting-company-can-easily-reduce-its-greenhouse-gases/

Its cheaper in the long run to opoerate efficiently and make renewable power out of your waste.

By: Bryony Worthington

Bryony Worthington — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 08:06:09 +0000

Thanks for your blog Susan. Just wanted to mention that unlike some other companies who do this, we are not-for-profit and we also use some of the money to support our campaigning activities. We are actively lobbying for tighter caps and improvements to the policy. We can have a much bigger effect that way.

On floors and ceilings – the best floor is a tight cap – if the floor is being regularly breached then it is a clear sign that the caps are not keeping pace with the reductions being made – at that point there should be a review and tighter caps introduced. Otherwise a floor can just mask a weak cap. Conversely if the ceiling is being breached – though that’s highly unlikely in the early years – then it’s a sign that more needs to be done to boost the supply of solutions – either through linking to other schemes, extending scope, or supplementary policies to bring clean tech to commercialisation. There should be no reason to raise the cap since that would defeat the entire purpose.

Thanks again,

Bryony

By: Bryony Worthington

Bryony Worthington — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 08:06:00 +0000

Thanks again,

Bryony

By: Susan Kraemer

Susan Kraemer — Sun, 25 Oct 2009 19:36:00 +0000

Bill, no doubt they do now; the EU pioneered this stuff, but they made it modifiable so that all the problems they discovered as they went into it could be fixed once they found them, as detailed in previous post:

http://cleantechnica.com/2009/09/28/what-the-senate-should-know-about-cap-and-trade-in-europe/

And in fact we have learned from their mistakes in writing ours. Ours sets not just a floor for carbon prices, but a ceiling too.

(And oversight, and consumer protections against high prices through utility rebates:

http://cleantechnica.com/2009/09/11/76-of-cap-and-trade-bill-allowances-benefit-people-not-polluters/

Waxman-Markey in the House was good, currently CEJAPA in the Senate is better(oddly), but next they need to vote in the Senate (that will water it down) (you can weigh in at (202) 224 3121 to say not to) then reconcile them in conference.

Thanks, Zack!

By: Susan Kraemer

Susan Kraemer — Sun, 25 Oct 2009 12:36:33 +0000

http://cleantechnica.com/2009/09/28/what-the-senate-should-know-about-cap-and-trade-in-europe/

And in fact we have learned from their mistakes in writing ours. Ours sets not just a floor for carbon prices, but a ceiling too.

(And oversight, and consumer protections against high prices through utility rebates:

http://cleantechnica.com/2009/09/11/76-of-cap-and-trade-bill-allowances-benefit-people-not-polluters/

Thanks, Zack!

By: Zachary Shahan

Zachary Shahan — Sun, 25 Oct 2009 06:40:35 +0000

good post, Susan! great find & good coverage of it

By: Bill Woods

Bill Woods — Sun, 25 Oct 2009 01:03:51 +0000

Why don’t European governments have standing offers to buy all permits offered at some price, thus setting a floor under the market? Allowing the price to fall to low levels does nothing to promote low-carbon power.