Comments on: For Base-Load Wind Cheaper than Fossil Fuels: CAES http://cleantechnica.com/2009/08/31/for-base-load-wind-cheaper-than-fossil-fuels-caes/ Clean Tech News & Views: Solar Energy News. Wind Energy News. EV News. & More. Fri, 10 Feb 2012 13:53:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: California Gets Smart-Grid Funds to Bottle Wind : CleanTechnica http://cleantechnica.com/2009/08/31/for-base-load-wind-cheaper-than-fossil-fuels-caes/#comment-7141 California Gets Smart-Grid Funds to Bottle Wind : CleanTechnica Thu, 26 Nov 2009 21:18:32 +0000 http://cleantechnica.com/?p=3263#comment-7141 [...] utility planned (previous story) to build 300 MW of compressed-air energy storage that will enable Californians to get more clean [...] [...] utility planned (previous story) to build 300 MW of compressed-air energy storage that will enable Californians to get more clean [...]

]]> By: Storing Renewable Energy in Boxes of Air :HUMACON http://cleantechnica.com/2009/08/31/for-base-load-wind-cheaper-than-fossil-fuels-caes/#comment-7140 Storing Renewable Energy in Boxes of Air :HUMACON Mon, 23 Nov 2009 13:57:38 +0000 http://cleantechnica.com/?p=3263#comment-7140 [...] are looking into storing energy in compressed-air in caves, in gravity; by pumping water up – to let it drop when needed – or in rolling [...] [...] are looking into storing energy in compressed-air in caves, in gravity; by pumping water up – to let it drop when needed – or in rolling [...]

]]> By: Storing Renewable Energy in Boxes of Air : CleanTechnica http://cleantechnica.com/2009/08/31/for-base-load-wind-cheaper-than-fossil-fuels-caes/#comment-7139 Storing Renewable Energy in Boxes of Air : CleanTechnica Fri, 20 Nov 2009 19:34:10 +0000 http://cleantechnica.com/?p=3263#comment-7139 [...] are looking into storing energy in compressed-air in caves, in gravity; by pumping water up - to let it drop when needed - or in rolling batteries; [...] [...] are looking into storing energy in compressed-air in caves, in gravity; by pumping water up – to let it drop when needed – or in rolling batteries; [...]

]]> By: School District Revisits Making Ice at Night to Reduce Energy Use : CleanTechnica http://cleantechnica.com/2009/08/31/for-base-load-wind-cheaper-than-fossil-fuels-caes/#comment-7138 School District Revisits Making Ice at Night to Reduce Energy Use : CleanTechnica Wed, 14 Oct 2009 14:21:12 +0000 http://cleantechnica.com/?p=3263#comment-7138 [...] Related stories: Wind Storage to be Worth Trillions Pump Hydro Underground to Store Wind Power For Baseload Wind Cheaper than Fossil Fuels: CAES [...] [...] Related stories: Wind Storage to be Worth Trillions Pump Hydro Underground to Store Wind Power For Baseload Wind Cheaper than Fossil Fuels: CAES [...]

]]> By: Why Wind Storage Worth Trillions : CleanTechnica http://cleantechnica.com/2009/08/31/for-base-load-wind-cheaper-than-fossil-fuels-caes/#comment-7137 Why Wind Storage Worth Trillions : CleanTechnica Mon, 05 Oct 2009 15:03:49 +0000 http://cleantechnica.com/?p=3263#comment-7137 [...] stories: For Cheap Baseload WInd Power: CAES Pump Hydro Underground to Store Wind Power US Must Socialize Grid to Add Renewable [...] [...] stories: For Cheap Baseload WInd Power: CAES Pump Hydro Underground to Store Wind Power US Must Socialize Grid to Add Renewable [...]

]]> By: Uncle B http://cleantechnica.com/2009/08/31/for-base-load-wind-cheaper-than-fossil-fuels-caes/#comment-7136 Uncle B Thu, 01 Oct 2009 10:47:42 +0000 http://cleantechnica.com/?p=3263#comment-7136 Battery cars, now seemingly an inevitable part of a monumental paradigm shift from the "American Dream" as defined in the 1990's, and being sold as we speak, in America, can ballast Wind and Solar vagrities too, but the question is: Enough? T Boone Pickens suggested compressed natural gas cars, and a Wind Turbine Corridor, both Avon guard, and viable ideas. Can our lifestyles be shifted by modern Science and the insulation technologies of say NASA? Saving energy is just as productive as producing it in a world of shortages, and the proposal is, we can live very comfortably and in sustainable fashion, outside the insane caterwallings of the advertising propagandists, by applying good common sense, and sound technologies to survival situations - No more SUV's, lesson learned, No more McMansions, churned commissions and rapid foreclosures, lesson learned, No more extravagant "Fast Food" diets, with ill health, fat asses, and bad hearts to follow, Lesson learned! So, now what? How about massive Solar power development coupled with "Manhattan Project" scaled Wind development, to supplant nuclear power, a lesson we cannot afford to learn, with its disastrous waste products! How about mandating the processing of all bio-gasables to fuel and top-soil builders, for our depleted farmlands? How about Wind and Solar powered electric bullet trains, inter-city and computer controlled, for efficiency? How about extensive research on Wind Turbine desi9gns? How about geo thermal exploitation? America at a cross-roads, dollar falling, jobs escaping to Asia, and poverty encroaching on the fringes of and unsustainable current life-style, outdated by modern technologies, and held back by patent laws, civil codes, and corporate ROI fanaticism, insistent on the maintenance of an impossible "Status Quo" as oil gains and the dollar falls on world markets, faces paradigm shifts unprecedented for mankind! And the answer: is Blowin' in the Wind! Battery cars, now seemingly an inevitable part of a monumental paradigm shift from the “American Dream” as defined in the 1990′s, and being sold as we speak, in America, can ballast Wind and Solar vagrities too, but the question is: Enough? T Boone Pickens suggested compressed natural gas cars, and a Wind Turbine Corridor, both Avon guard, and viable ideas. Can our lifestyles be shifted by modern Science and the insulation technologies of say NASA? Saving energy is just as productive as producing it in a world of shortages, and the proposal is, we can live very comfortably and in sustainable fashion, outside the insane caterwallings of the advertising propagandists, by applying good common sense, and sound technologies to survival situations – No more SUV’s, lesson learned, No more McMansions, churned commissions and rapid foreclosures, lesson learned, No more extravagant “Fast Food” diets, with ill health, fat asses, and bad hearts to follow, Lesson learned! So, now what? How about massive Solar power development coupled with “Manhattan Project” scaled Wind development, to supplant nuclear power, a lesson we cannot afford to learn, with its disastrous waste products! How about mandating the processing of all bio-gasables to fuel and top-soil builders, for our depleted farmlands? How about Wind and Solar powered electric bullet trains, inter-city and computer controlled, for efficiency? How about extensive research on Wind Turbine desi9gns? How about geo thermal exploitation? America at a cross-roads, dollar falling, jobs escaping to Asia, and poverty encroaching on the fringes of and unsustainable current life-style, outdated by modern technologies, and held back by patent laws, civil codes, and corporate ROI fanaticism, insistent on the maintenance of an impossible “Status Quo” as oil gains and the dollar falls on world markets, faces paradigm shifts unprecedented for mankind! And the answer: is Blowin’ in the Wind!

]]> By: Uncle B http://cleantechnica.com/2009/08/31/for-base-load-wind-cheaper-than-fossil-fuels-caes/#comment-24062 Uncle B Thu, 01 Oct 2009 10:47:00 +0000 http://cleantechnica.com/?p=3263#comment-24062 Battery cars, now seemingly an inevitable part of a monumental paradigm shift from the "American Dream" as defined in the 1990's, and being sold as we speak, in America, can ballast Wind and Solar vagrities too, but the question is: Enough? T Boone Pickens suggested compressed natural gas cars, and a Wind Turbine Corridor, both Avon guard, and viable ideas. Can our lifestyles be shifted by modern Science and the insulation technologies of say NASA? Saving energy is just as productive as producing it in a world of shortages, and the proposal is, we can live very comfortably and in sustainable fashion, outside the insane caterwallings of the advertising propagandists, by applying good common sense, and sound technologies to survival situations - No more SUV's, lesson learned, No more McMansions, churned commissions and rapid foreclosures, lesson learned, No more extravagant "Fast Food" diets, with ill health, fat asses, and bad hearts to follow, Lesson learned! So, now what? How about massive Solar power development coupled with "Manhattan Project" scaled Wind development, to supplant nuclear power, a lesson we cannot afford to learn, with its disastrous waste products! How about mandating the processing of all bio-gasables to fuel and top-soil builders, for our depleted farmlands? How about Wind and Solar powered electric bullet trains, inter-city and computer controlled, for efficiency? How about extensive research on Wind Turbine desi9gns? How about geo thermal exploitation? America at a cross-roads, dollar falling, jobs escaping to Asia, and poverty encroaching on the fringes of and unsustainable current life-style, outdated by modern technologies, and held back by patent laws, civil codes, and corporate ROI fanaticism, insistent on the maintenance of an impossible "Status Quo" as oil gains and the dollar falls on world markets, faces paradigm shifts unprecedented for mankind! And the answer: is Blowin' in the Wind! Battery cars, now seemingly an inevitable part of a monumental paradigm shift from the “American Dream” as defined in the 1990′s, and being sold as we speak, in America, can ballast Wind and Solar vagrities too, but the question is: Enough? T Boone Pickens suggested compressed natural gas cars, and a Wind Turbine Corridor, both Avon guard, and viable ideas. Can our lifestyles be shifted by modern Science and the insulation technologies of say NASA? Saving energy is just as productive as producing it in a world of shortages, and the proposal is, we can live very comfortably and in sustainable fashion, outside the insane caterwallings of the advertising propagandists, by applying good common sense, and sound technologies to survival situations – No more SUV’s, lesson learned, No more McMansions, churned commissions and rapid foreclosures, lesson learned, No more extravagant “Fast Food” diets, with ill health, fat asses, and bad hearts to follow, Lesson learned! So, now what? How about massive Solar power development coupled with “Manhattan Project” scaled Wind development, to supplant nuclear power, a lesson we cannot afford to learn, with its disastrous waste products! How about mandating the processing of all bio-gasables to fuel and top-soil builders, for our depleted farmlands? How about Wind and Solar powered electric bullet trains, inter-city and computer controlled, for efficiency? How about extensive research on Wind Turbine desi9gns? How about geo thermal exploitation? America at a cross-roads, dollar falling, jobs escaping to Asia, and poverty encroaching on the fringes of and unsustainable current life-style, outdated by modern technologies, and held back by patent laws, civil codes, and corporate ROI fanaticism, insistent on the maintenance of an impossible “Status Quo” as oil gains and the dollar falls on world markets, faces paradigm shifts unprecedented for mankind! And the answer: is Blowin’ in the Wind!

]]> By: Reese Palley http://cleantechnica.com/2009/08/31/for-base-load-wind-cheaper-than-fossil-fuels-caes/#comment-7135 Reese Palley Thu, 10 Sep 2009 20:02:32 +0000 http://cleantechnica.com/?p=3263#comment-7135 Does anyone have any information concerning the potential of stored compressed air to pick up pollutants such as CO2 or arsenic etc from the walls of the underground storage sites? Please respond by email to: reesepalley@aol.com Does anyone have any information concerning the potential of stored compressed air to pick up pollutants such as CO2 or arsenic etc from the walls of the underground storage sites?

Please respond by email to:

reesepalley@aol.com

]]> By: Reese Palley http://cleantechnica.com/2009/08/31/for-base-load-wind-cheaper-than-fossil-fuels-caes/#comment-24061 Reese Palley Thu, 10 Sep 2009 20:02:00 +0000 http://cleantechnica.com/?p=3263#comment-24061 Does anyone have any information concerning the potential of stored compressed air to pick up pollutants such as CO2 or arsenic etc from the walls of the underground storage sites? Please respond by email to: reesepalley@aol.com Does anyone have any information concerning the potential of stored compressed air to pick up pollutants such as CO2 or arsenic etc from the walls of the underground storage sites?

Please respond by email to:

reesepalley@aol.com

]]> By: Kyle Laskowski http://cleantechnica.com/2009/08/31/for-base-load-wind-cheaper-than-fossil-fuels-caes/#comment-7134 Kyle Laskowski Wed, 09 Sep 2009 15:22:36 +0000 http://cleantechnica.com/?p=3263#comment-7134 It seems unfair to compare the cost of the storage system with an output of 300MW to the cost of a fossil plant, as the storage can only keep up this output level for an amount of time not mentioned in the article, based on the maximum amount of stored energy the system is capable of. A fossil plant can keep generating 300MW while fuel is provided, this system will stop after the stored energy is gone, possibly minutes. And also, from what I've read CAES does require natural gas to release the energy, and a variable amount of the energy used to compress the air is lost depending on the speed it is stored and the laws of thermodynamics (the heat produced by compressing a gas will dissipate with time into the surrounding rock and not be recoverable to do useful work). It seems unfair to compare the cost of the storage system with an output of 300MW to the cost of a fossil plant, as the storage can only keep up this output level for an amount of time not mentioned in the article, based on the maximum amount of stored energy the system is capable of. A fossil plant can keep generating 300MW while fuel is provided, this system will stop after the stored energy is gone, possibly minutes.

And also, from what I’ve read CAES does require natural gas to release the energy, and a variable amount of the energy used to compress the air is lost depending on the speed it is stored and the laws of thermodynamics (the heat produced by compressing a gas will dissipate with time into the surrounding rock and not be recoverable to do useful work).

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