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	<title>Comments on: New Cost-Effective Battery Tested to Store Wind-Power</title>
	<atom:link href="http://cleantechnica.com/2008/11/18/new-cost-effective-battery-tested-to-store-wind-power/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2008/11/18/new-cost-effective-battery-tested-to-store-wind-power/</link>
	<description>Clean Tech News &#38; Views: Solar Energy News. Wind Energy News. EV News. &#38; More.</description>
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		<title>By: Chris S.</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2008/11/18/new-cost-effective-battery-tested-to-store-wind-power/#comment-4319</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Feb 2009 08:44:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=1527#comment-4319</guid>
		<description>I wonder about this  whole  claim of cost-effectiveness.How much energy cost goes into maintaining molten sulfur at such a high temperature? Seems like batteries that operate at normal environmental temperatures would be more efficient.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder about this  whole  claim of cost-effectiveness.How much energy cost goes into maintaining molten sulfur at such a high temperature? Seems like batteries that operate at normal environmental temperatures would be more efficient.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris S.</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2008/11/18/new-cost-effective-battery-tested-to-store-wind-power/#comment-20900</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Feb 2009 08:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=1527#comment-20900</guid>
		<description>I wonder about this  whole  claim of cost-effectiveness.How much energy cost goes into maintaining molten sulfur at such a high temperature? Seems like batteries that operate at normal environmental temperatures would be more efficient.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder about this  whole  claim of cost-effectiveness.How much energy cost goes into maintaining molten sulfur at such a high temperature? Seems like batteries that operate at normal environmental temperatures would be more efficient.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: WlkBht</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2008/11/18/new-cost-effective-battery-tested-to-store-wind-power/#comment-4318</link>
		<dc:creator>WlkBht</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 03:26:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=1527#comment-4318</guid>
		<description>This is similar to charging a battery overnight so you can use it during the day, you are effectively deferring the load (of course there are many other considerations, and I&#039;ll agree, something about it just seems wrong...)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is similar to charging a battery overnight so you can use it during the day, you are effectively deferring the load (of course there are many other considerations, and I&#8217;ll agree, something about it just seems wrong&#8230;)</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: WlkBht</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2008/11/18/new-cost-effective-battery-tested-to-store-wind-power/#comment-20899</link>
		<dc:creator>WlkBht</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 03:26:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=1527#comment-20899</guid>
		<description>This is similar to charging a battery overnight so you can use it during the day, you are effectively deferring the load (of course there are many other considerations, and I&#039;ll agree, something about it just seems wrong...)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is similar to charging a battery overnight so you can use it during the day, you are effectively deferring the load (of course there are many other considerations, and I&#8217;ll agree, something about it just seems wrong&#8230;)</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: WlkBht</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2008/11/18/new-cost-effective-battery-tested-to-store-wind-power/#comment-4317</link>
		<dc:creator>WlkBht</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 03:25:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=1527#comment-4317</guid>
		<description>sane : &quot;I assume you are not suggesting that someone would let water flow through a dam to generate electricity so as to then pump water up hill...&quot; This is exactly what Pump Storage is; the water is pumped at a time when generation is greater than demand (say, at night) and released at a time when demand exceeds the normal generation, such as morning and evening peaks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sane : &#8220;I assume you are not suggesting that someone would let water flow through a dam to generate electricity so as to then pump water up hill&#8230;&#8221; This is exactly what Pump Storage is; the water is pumped at a time when generation is greater than demand (say, at night) and released at a time when demand exceeds the normal generation, such as morning and evening peaks.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: WlkBht</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2008/11/18/new-cost-effective-battery-tested-to-store-wind-power/#comment-20898</link>
		<dc:creator>WlkBht</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 03:25:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=1527#comment-20898</guid>
		<description>sane : &quot;I assume you are not suggesting that someone would let water flow through a dam to generate electricity so as to then pump water up hill...&quot; This is exactly what Pump Storage is; the water is pumped at a time when generation is greater than demand (say, at night) and released at a time when demand exceeds the normal generation, such as morning and evening peaks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sane : &#8220;I assume you are not suggesting that someone would let water flow through a dam to generate electricity so as to then pump water up hill&#8230;&#8221; This is exactly what Pump Storage is; the water is pumped at a time when generation is greater than demand (say, at night) and released at a time when demand exceeds the normal generation, such as morning and evening peaks.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Global Patriot</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2008/11/18/new-cost-effective-battery-tested-to-store-wind-power/#comment-4316</link>
		<dc:creator>Global Patriot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 19:20:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=1527#comment-4316</guid>
		<description>As mentioned above, storage on the grid is one of the key issues with aggressively moving ahead on the alternative energy front.  And while we should continue advancing battery technology for many situations, I would like to see other alternatives investigated that don&#039;t carry the same issues as battery maintenance and recycling.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As mentioned above, storage on the grid is one of the key issues with aggressively moving ahead on the alternative energy front.  And while we should continue advancing battery technology for many situations, I would like to see other alternatives investigated that don&#8217;t carry the same issues as battery maintenance and recycling.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Global Patriot</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2008/11/18/new-cost-effective-battery-tested-to-store-wind-power/#comment-20897</link>
		<dc:creator>Global Patriot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 19:20:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=1527#comment-20897</guid>
		<description>As mentioned above, storage on the grid is one of the key issues with aggressively moving ahead on the alternative energy front.  And while we should continue advancing battery technology for many situations, I would like to see other alternatives investigated that don&#039;t carry the same issues as battery maintenance and recycling.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As mentioned above, storage on the grid is one of the key issues with aggressively moving ahead on the alternative energy front.  And while we should continue advancing battery technology for many situations, I would like to see other alternatives investigated that don&#8217;t carry the same issues as battery maintenance and recycling.</p>
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		<title>By: hexyl</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2008/11/18/new-cost-effective-battery-tested-to-store-wind-power/#comment-4315</link>
		<dc:creator>hexyl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 19:27:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=1527#comment-4315</guid>
		<description>Why is energy storage so important?

For the power industry integrating renewables is not so simple.  The load (power that the customers use) varies throught the day with peaks and lows but it can be predicted and accounted for.  The power companies use the preditction to set their generation schedules and make minute adjustments.  When you have a renewable like wind/solar/wave which can suddenly stop or start producing power the Power Plants generating units must now make large adjustments because the load at that time will still remain the same.  This can work both ways too.  At a load peak the renewable drops to 0 and the PP must ramp up and generate more.  Lets also postulate when the load is at the daily minimum.  The PP will also be at a minimum.  What if the renewables are at 0 MW and suddenly the renewables start pumping MW into the grid?  What do the PP do?  There is more generation than load, now they must decrease output.  However the PP units are aready at thier lowest output so one of two things will happen.  The PP will either trip offline or the operators will pull equipment offline in a hurry to avoid a unit trip.  Neither is good for PPs which are supposed to constantly operate.  Having a combination of steady renewable power output and a &quot;smart&quot; electric grid will prevent PP from dancing around.  Utilities will be much more open to having renewables tied into the grid.

Why can&#039;t PP react quickly to grid changes?  The most efficient type of PP we have are based on the steam cycle.  Fuel is burnt in a boiler to heat up water to steam which is shot through a turnbine conencted to a generator.  Whatever is left over is condensed back to water and then goes back to the boiler to be heated again.  Control of the boiler is very slow compared to the type of MW fluxuations that could come from a renewable source.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why is energy storage so important?</p>
<p>For the power industry integrating renewables is not so simple.  The load (power that the customers use) varies throught the day with peaks and lows but it can be predicted and accounted for.  The power companies use the preditction to set their generation schedules and make minute adjustments.  When you have a renewable like wind/solar/wave which can suddenly stop or start producing power the Power Plants generating units must now make large adjustments because the load at that time will still remain the same.  This can work both ways too.  At a load peak the renewable drops to 0 and the PP must ramp up and generate more.  Lets also postulate when the load is at the daily minimum.  The PP will also be at a minimum.  What if the renewables are at 0 MW and suddenly the renewables start pumping MW into the grid?  What do the PP do?  There is more generation than load, now they must decrease output.  However the PP units are aready at thier lowest output so one of two things will happen.  The PP will either trip offline or the operators will pull equipment offline in a hurry to avoid a unit trip.  Neither is good for PPs which are supposed to constantly operate.  Having a combination of steady renewable power output and a &#8220;smart&#8221; electric grid will prevent PP from dancing around.  Utilities will be much more open to having renewables tied into the grid.</p>
<p>Why can&#8217;t PP react quickly to grid changes?  The most efficient type of PP we have are based on the steam cycle.  Fuel is burnt in a boiler to heat up water to steam which is shot through a turnbine conencted to a generator.  Whatever is left over is condensed back to water and then goes back to the boiler to be heated again.  Control of the boiler is very slow compared to the type of MW fluxuations that could come from a renewable source.</p>
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		<title>By: hexyl</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2008/11/18/new-cost-effective-battery-tested-to-store-wind-power/#comment-20896</link>
		<dc:creator>hexyl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 19:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=1527#comment-20896</guid>
		<description>Why is energy storage so important?

For the power industry integrating renewables is not so simple.  The load (power that the customers use) varies throught the day with peaks and lows but it can be predicted and accounted for.  The power companies use the preditction to set their generation schedules and make minute adjustments.  When you have a renewable like wind/solar/wave which can suddenly stop or start producing power the Power Plants generating units must now make large adjustments because the load at that time will still remain the same.  This can work both ways too.  At a load peak the renewable drops to 0 and the PP must ramp up and generate more.  Lets also postulate when the load is at the daily minimum.  The PP will also be at a minimum.  What if the renewables are at 0 MW and suddenly the renewables start pumping MW into the grid?  What do the PP do?  There is more generation than load, now they must decrease output.  However the PP units are aready at thier lowest output so one of two things will happen.  The PP will either trip offline or the operators will pull equipment offline in a hurry to avoid a unit trip.  Neither is good for PPs which are supposed to constantly operate.  Having a combination of steady renewable power output and a &quot;smart&quot; electric grid will prevent PP from dancing around.  Utilities will be much more open to having renewables tied into the grid.

Why can&#039;t PP react quickly to grid changes?  The most efficient type of PP we have are based on the steam cycle.  Fuel is burnt in a boiler to heat up water to steam which is shot through a turnbine conencted to a generator.  Whatever is left over is condensed back to water and then goes back to the boiler to be heated again.  Control of the boiler is very slow compared to the type of MW fluxuations that could come from a renewable source.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why is energy storage so important?</p>
<p>For the power industry integrating renewables is not so simple.  The load (power that the customers use) varies throught the day with peaks and lows but it can be predicted and accounted for.  The power companies use the preditction to set their generation schedules and make minute adjustments.  When you have a renewable like wind/solar/wave which can suddenly stop or start producing power the Power Plants generating units must now make large adjustments because the load at that time will still remain the same.  This can work both ways too.  At a load peak the renewable drops to 0 and the PP must ramp up and generate more.  Lets also postulate when the load is at the daily minimum.  The PP will also be at a minimum.  What if the renewables are at 0 MW and suddenly the renewables start pumping MW into the grid?  What do the PP do?  There is more generation than load, now they must decrease output.  However the PP units are aready at thier lowest output so one of two things will happen.  The PP will either trip offline or the operators will pull equipment offline in a hurry to avoid a unit trip.  Neither is good for PPs which are supposed to constantly operate.  Having a combination of steady renewable power output and a &#8220;smart&#8221; electric grid will prevent PP from dancing around.  Utilities will be much more open to having renewables tied into the grid.</p>
<p>Why can&#8217;t PP react quickly to grid changes?  The most efficient type of PP we have are based on the steam cycle.  Fuel is burnt in a boiler to heat up water to steam which is shot through a turnbine conencted to a generator.  Whatever is left over is condensed back to water and then goes back to the boiler to be heated again.  Control of the boiler is very slow compared to the type of MW fluxuations that could come from a renewable source.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Sane</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2008/11/18/new-cost-effective-battery-tested-to-store-wind-power/#comment-4314</link>
		<dc:creator>Sane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 12:14:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=1527#comment-4314</guid>
		<description>biganon...&quot;Water is pumped up from large reservoirs at night using wind or hydro &quot;...Pumped storage is indeed an interesting option. However, in the above statement I assume you are not suggesting that someone would let water flow through a dam to generate electricity so as to then pump water up hill...Rather I&#039;m guessing what you&#039;re talking about is that that hydro power is similar to pumped storage and can be used in a similar way to mitigate variable wind rates (with hydo power, rather than wind doing the pumping, in hydro power the sun is effectively &quot;pumping&quot; the water up hill by evaporating it) but either way you can control when and where you release it once it is captured.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>biganon&#8230;&#8221;Water is pumped up from large reservoirs at night using wind or hydro &#8220;&#8230;Pumped storage is indeed an interesting option. However, in the above statement I assume you are not suggesting that someone would let water flow through a dam to generate electricity so as to then pump water up hill&#8230;Rather I&#8217;m guessing what you&#8217;re talking about is that that hydro power is similar to pumped storage and can be used in a similar way to mitigate variable wind rates (with hydo power, rather than wind doing the pumping, in hydro power the sun is effectively &#8220;pumping&#8221; the water up hill by evaporating it) but either way you can control when and where you release it once it is captured.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Sane</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2008/11/18/new-cost-effective-battery-tested-to-store-wind-power/#comment-20895</link>
		<dc:creator>Sane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 12:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=1527#comment-20895</guid>
		<description>biganon...&quot;Water is pumped up from large reservoirs at night using wind or hydro &quot;...Pumped storage is indeed an interesting option. However, in the above statement I assume you are not suggesting that someone would let water flow through a dam to generate electricity so as to then pump water up hill...Rather I&#039;m guessing what you&#039;re talking about is that that hydro power is similar to pumped storage and can be used in a similar way to mitigate variable wind rates (with hydo power, rather than wind doing the pumping, in hydro power the sun is effectively &quot;pumping&quot; the water up hill by evaporating it) but either way you can control when and where you release it once it is captured.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>biganon&#8230;&#8221;Water is pumped up from large reservoirs at night using wind or hydro &#8220;&#8230;Pumped storage is indeed an interesting option. However, in the above statement I assume you are not suggesting that someone would let water flow through a dam to generate electricity so as to then pump water up hill&#8230;Rather I&#8217;m guessing what you&#8217;re talking about is that that hydro power is similar to pumped storage and can be used in a similar way to mitigate variable wind rates (with hydo power, rather than wind doing the pumping, in hydro power the sun is effectively &#8220;pumping&#8221; the water up hill by evaporating it) but either way you can control when and where you release it once it is captured.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2008/11/18/new-cost-effective-battery-tested-to-store-wind-power/#comment-4313</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 11:34:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=1527#comment-4313</guid>
		<description>How many recharges are the batteries good for until they die?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How many recharges are the batteries good for until they die?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2008/11/18/new-cost-effective-battery-tested-to-store-wind-power/#comment-20894</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 11:34:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=1527#comment-20894</guid>
		<description>How many recharges are the batteries good for until they die?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How many recharges are the batteries good for until they die?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: denwer</title>
		<link>http://cleantechnica.com/2008/11/18/new-cost-effective-battery-tested-to-store-wind-power/#comment-4312</link>
		<dc:creator>denwer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 10:42:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cleantechnica.com/?p=1527#comment-4312</guid>
		<description>I also wonder what will happen to the “peak” electricity usage during the day, once everyone is possibly plugging in their cars at night. Does anyone know anything about that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also wonder what will happen to the “peak” electricity usage during the day, once everyone is possibly plugging in their cars at night. Does anyone know anything about that?</p>
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